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[Xilizhra]

"Act of Mercy" where Decimus; the confirmed blood mage; is a mandatory enemy; "On the Loose" where the only rebel you are not forced to kill is the only one who is not a blood mage; and "The Last Straw" where Orsino; another confirmed blood mage; is a mandatory enemy plus that female mage on the docks.

Alain refers to "they" using blood magic, not "he," which would imply that Grace and Terrie were trying it too... and Terrie manages to escape altogether, to my knowledge. On the Loose has you killing only one blood mage; the other is an abomination whose magical practices hitherto are unknown. As for The Last Straw, Alain's in it too, and he's known to have learned blood magic by that time.

I also brought Merrill to all of them, so, you know.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

The Inquisition wasn't performing a Witch Hunt. World of Thedas stated that their goal was to restore order. They punsished people that committed crimes, regardless if mage or non-mage.

"The Inquisition was formed around -100 Ancient with the goal of protecting the people from the tyranny of magic in whatever form it might take; blood mages, abominations, cultists or heretics."

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Alain refers to "they" using blood magic, not "he," which would imply that Grace and Terrie were trying it too... and Terrie manages to escape altogether, to my knowledge.

Confirmed blood mage. 

On the Loose has you killing only one blood mage; the other is an abomination whose magical practices hitherto are unknown.

 Blood magic stems from demons in the first place. All abominations are profecient at it, despite what gameplay would have you believe.

As for The Last Straw, Alain's in it too, and he's known to have learned blood magic by that time.

Alain does a perfectly good job of getting himself killed without Hawke's help, thank you very much.

I also brought Merrill to all of them, so, you know.

Merril is a companion, she's not involved in these quests.

[Xilizhra]

Blood magic stems from demons in the first place. All abominations are profecient at it, despite what gameplay would have you believe.

That's still a demon, not a blood mage... and I'd like the source about "all abominations."

Alain does a perfectly good job of getting himself killed without Hawke's help, thank you very much.

Still, he's not an enemy.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
"The Inquisition was formed around -100 Ancient with the goal of protecting the people from the tyranny of magic in whatever form it might take; blood mages, abominations, cultists or heretics."

They retconned that in "World of Thedas". Now, the Inquisition was created to restore order, was impartial and always gave people a fair trial.
Probrably because there were a lot of pro-mage losing their figurative sh*t over being part of the Inquisition.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I recognize the Harrowing is a test. A test that not every mage goes through because if they're conisdered weak, they are forcibly made tranquil. And if you fail, you become an abomination and get killed.

What I suggested is also a test, one that can potentially be lethal if you are unprepared, but also one that you can take when you feel ready for it, so there are no forcible tranquilizations for being weak, and if you fail, there is just as much a chance to survive and recover as there is to die, and if you do survive you can retake the test and it will not be the same. It forces you to be prepared for almost any eventuality as you are facing your own potential.

Your weaknesses are what Pride, Desire and Sloth demons will prey upon. Your emotional attachments, your sense of worth and what it revolves around, your desires, and they will offer those things as a way to tempt you. If you face an aspect of your own potential, and forced to face those things a demon will prey upon, then there is no need to face the demon in the first place, you are your own demon, both literally and metaphorically.

I suppose this test mainly subscribes to the philosophy of "You must know yourself before you know the world," or something similar, and I'm mostly advocating a less lethal but just as effective measure that allows mages to show their ability and what they've learned while also learning something of themselves in the process, and let them also see what they can accomplish if they're willing to work hard for it.

And for those who are only catching on to this, you can go to pages one and two to see my idea being discussed when I originally suggested it, and where my inspiration came from.

You cannot wait around in Thedas and just take your test whenever you feel like it. Demons are not gonna wait for when you are ready. That is why your idea won't work. The test must be forced upon the mage, so that he can prove that he is not a liability. And if you take your test and force it upon the mage, then it is no different than the Harrowing, except that it offers no actual experience with demons.

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
In fact, you recall none whatsoever, as Merrill, for instance, is never a mandatory enemy. Neither is Alain.

"Act of Mercy" where Decimus; the confirmed blood mage; is a mandatory enemy; "On the Loose" where the only rebel you are not forced to kill is the only one who is not a blood mage; and "The Last Straw" where Orsino; another confirmed blood mage; is a mandatory enemy plus that female mage on the docks.
I never said that we are forced to kill every blood mage in the game but, there are; at the very least; three quests where the only blood mages involved are mandatory enemies.

What Quintin doesn't even get an honorary mention?

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:23 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
"The Inquisition was formed around -100 Ancient with the goal of protecting the people from the tyranny of magic in whatever form it might take; blood mages, abominations, cultists or heretics."

They retconned that in "World of Thedas". Now, the Inquisition was created to restore order, was impartial and always gave people a fair trial.
Probrably because there were a lot of pro-mage losing their figurative sh*t over being part of the Inquisition.

I highly doubt it. I certainly did not lose my sh*t that I was going to be a part of the Inquisition. I thought it was going to be cool.

[Xilizhra]

What Quintin doesn't even get an honorary mention?

Blood mage Gaspard DuPuis isn't a mandatory enemy in that quest, so it undermines his point.

They retconned that in "World of Thedas". Now, the Inquisition was created to restore order, was impartial and always gave people a fair trial.
Probrably because there were a lot of pro-mage losing their figurative sh*t over being part of the Inquisition.

If true, an encouraging sign.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: What we know of that time says that the Inquisition was formed "because of" the magical upheaval... not causing it.

And, like other codex entries, the entry that talks about the First Inquisition states that statements of witch hunts might actually be rumors and not true at all.

[Xilizhra]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

They cannot be unilaterally controlled by nonmages; such destroys all chance of representation. Either they govern themselves, or governments integrate and both mages and nonmages are governed by a mix of mages and nonmages.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: What we know of that time says that the Inquisition was formed "because of" the magical upheaval... not causing it.

And, like other codex entries, the entry that talks about the First Inquisition states that statements of witch hunts might actually be rumors and not true at all.

I am not saying that the Inquisition necessarily started the magical upheaval, but both sides probably had vastly different opinions about its work. The reality of what it was is somewhere between the two most likely.

[Bardox9]

Blood magic is no more evil than Spirit Healer or Force Mage. The thing that makes any school of magic good or evil is the mage using it. If a Mage is using his own blood to increase the power of their spells that's one thing, but when a mage starts sucking the life out of another person that is entirely different. If and when a mage goes vampire, it's time to die. Until then, stay frosty.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

Have you ever had a discussion with Xil before?

[Inprea]

Bardox9 wrote...

The original Inquisition slaughtered mages on sight. The Templars only came about as a compact with the Chantry to defend the Chantry, guard the Mages within the Circle of Magi, and hunt down apostates and/or maleficars.

Say what you will about the Templars, but they are a farcry better than the Inquisition. The Circle was created as a compromise. Before the Circle, Mages were killed for no other reason than they were mages. Being born with magic was a death sentence. The Circle is far from perfect and does need some reforms, but it is better than the way things were before. The Circle is as much as prison as it is a haven for Mages.

Source? Apparently it's noted in the world of Thedas.

Others say they were cast in a negative light by history because their
investigations and even application of justice, protecting both mages
and common people impartially, crossed too many powerful groups. In
these accounts it is suggested that the group was already known as the
Seekers of Truth and that the "Inquisition" moniker was perhaps
pejorative.

http://dragonage.wik...ion#cite_note-5

If you're going to make such claims how about backing it up with supporting evidence especially when there is easy to find evidence to the contrary?

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Like the current situation?

@EmperorSahlertz:  It's generous that you call them discussions.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:32 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Like the current situation?

More or less. Both sides have decent points, and both have their faults. The problem is getting them all to sit down, shut up, and hash it out rationally.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Like the current situation?

@EmperorSahlertz:  It's generous that you call them discussions.

Xil is perfectly capable of rationally arguing in a discussion.

[Hellion Rex]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

They cannot be unilaterally controlled by nonmages; such destroys all chance of representation. Either they govern themselves, or governments integrate and both mages and nonmages are governed by a mix of mages and nonmages.

I guess the latter suggestion would make the most sense, though I did get the impression that first enchanters are at least heard in dicussions.

I would say that it depends on which Circle you go to. The situation is different at each Circle.

[Xilizhra]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

They cannot be unilaterally controlled by nonmages; such destroys all chance of representation. Either they govern themselves, or governments integrate and both mages and nonmages are governed by a mix of mages and nonmages.

I guess the latter suggestion would make the most sense, though I did get the impression that first enchanters are at least heard in dicussions.

Hmm, interesting. So you're willing to remove all prohibitions against mages both serving in the Chantry proper and holding titles?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

They cannot be unilaterally controlled by nonmages; such destroys all chance of representation. Either they govern themselves, or governments integrate and both mages and nonmages are governed by a mix of mages and nonmages.

I guess the latter suggestion would make the most sense, though I did get the impression that first enchanters are at least heard in dicussions.

Hmm, interesting. So you're willing to remove all prohibitions against mages both serving in the Chantry proper and holding titles?

Are you interested in having mages serve in the Chantry, similar to the priests in Tevinter?

Modifié par eluvianix, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:41 .

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Xil

Are you suggesting the mages govern themselves? Because I am sure you can understand that problems I'd have with that if you read into my posts more.

They cannot be unilaterally controlled by nonmages; such destroys all chance of representation. Either they govern themselves, or governments integrate and both mages and nonmages are governed by a mix of mages and nonmages.

I guess the latter suggestion would make the most sense, though I did get the impression that first enchanters are at least heard in dicussions.

Hmm, interesting. So you're willing to remove all prohibitions against mages both serving in the Chantry proper and holding titles?

Are you interested in having mages serve in the Chantry, similar to the priests in Tevinter?

I have two possible models: segregated-society, in which case the Circle is part of the Chantry but self-governing within it, and full integration, which, yes, has mage priests within the Chantry who can advocate for them and will also likely have authority over nonmages should their position grant it. Mages in this case could also inherit and hold titles.