1238 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@Xilizhra: That certainly is equality... minus the "Can throw fireballs too" part, but I suspect you just believe it's because mages are entitled because they were born that way.

@eluvianix: You have obviously never had him/her tell you what you think, how you feel, or what is permissible for you to do on these forums.  My experience is not the same as yours clearly. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:48 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Xilizhra: That certainly is equality... minus the "Can throw fireballs too" part, but I suspect you just believe it's because mages are entitled because they were born that way.

@eluvianix: You have obviously never had him/her tell you what you think, how you feel, or what is permissible for you to do on these forums.  My experience is not the same as yours clearly. 

I have dealt with just as many Templar followers who do the same, so Xil does not hold the monopoly in that regard.
And as for the "throwing fireballs" that is why we have Templars that can step in, should a mage abuse the power he/she has been given through the Chantry.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra: That certainly is equality... minus the "Can throw fireballs too" part, but I suspect you just believe it's because mages are entitled because they were born that way.

I hope that you wouldn't force a genius to operate at the same level as a dullard and call that equality.

@eluvianix: You have obviously never had him/her tell you what you think, how you feel, or what is permissible for you to do on these forums. My experience is not the same as yours clearly.

Her, fyi.

I'm interested in the mages being monitered at all times so they will
have the tools of protection will be in place. I'm not entirely opposed
to the mages having more power within the Circle, though that is a vague
statement in itself because I do not entirely know how a circle is run.

Then you cannot have a non-representational magophobic religious organization have total control over it.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:54 .

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: So, when your child is killed in a fireball meant for someone else... and your other child survives two men dualing with swords - would you perhaps concede that there's a difference?

There is fallout to magic - you cannot simply wait for a mage to raze an entire town and THEN punish him.

If you want that kind of justice - then you should kill as many mages as peasants that were accidently killed by the mage's spells. All from his Circle - and all leaders who did not police him.

I cannot get behind what I perceive as a gross lack of accountability on the side of the mage mindset.

@Xilizhra:  LOL there are exactly no mage genuises in Thedas so far. 

You mean primitives who have been given guns and grenades. 

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:57 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: So, when your child is killed in a fireball meant for someone else... and your other child survives two men dualing with swords - would you perhaps concede that there's a difference?

There is fallout to magic - you cannot simply wait for a mage to raze an entire town and THEN punish him.

If you want that kind of justice - then you should kill as many mages as peasants that were accidently killed by the mage's spells. All from his Circle - and all leaders who did not police him.

I cannot get behind what I perceive as a gross lack of accountability on the side of the mage mindset.

So what do you propose we do then? Punish him BEFORE he does anything?

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: So, when your child is killed in a fireball meant for someone else... and your other child survives two men dualing with swords - would you perhaps concede that there's a difference?

There is fallout to magic - you cannot simply wait for a mage to raze an entire town and THEN punish him.

If you want that kind of justice - then you should kill as many mages as peasants that were accidently killed by the mage's spells. All from his Circle - and all leaders who did not police him.

I cannot get behind what I perceive as a gross lack of accountability on the side of the mage mindset.

@Xilizhra:  LOL there are exactly no mage genuises in Thedas so far. 

You mean primitives who have been given guns and grenades. 

Ha. Avernus, Wynne, Irving, Rhys. Heck, even the Tevinter magisters are pretty smart. Blood magic squeamishness aside, they have pioneered the study of magic.

Modifié par eluvianix, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:01 .

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Of course not - massive regulations on the types of magic taught would be my first step. ANYONE out of a military organization shown to be studying or using combat magic should be - at the very least, severely fined and at the worst Tranquilized.

Allowing "equal citizens" to learn violent magic is such a huge double standard I find it appalling.

Wynne is wise - she knows absolutely nothing extrordinary about magic. 
Irving doesn't display anything beyond the most basic knowledge of magic.
Avernus... 'might' be a genius mage, but he was clearly stupid enough to get everyone killed and get himself trapped with blood magic.  

I've said it before - Dagna is the only being on Thedas I've ever actually heard say something smart about magic.  The rest just throw around a lot of "maybe".

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
So what do you propose we do then? Punish him BEFORE he does anything?

I'd restrict his freedoms in order to account for the danger he poses just as my own freedoms are restricted in the same manner, if not in the same proportion. Again, because I am unable to lit a city on fire in the fit of a pique.

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
So what do you propose we do then? Punish him BEFORE he does anything?

I'd restrict his freedoms in order to account for the danger he poses just as my own freedoms are restricted in the same manner, if not in the same proportion. Again, because I am unable to lit a city on fire in the fit of a pique.

You said yourself that your prime worry is that mages will prove too useful to the economy for you to allow them to be more than second-class citizens.

[General TSAR]

I support the Chantry governed Circle, hell I even support Mage Colonies where they have family visitation but the Circle will be constantly monitored by the Order and any attempts at rebellion or practicing illicit magic will be met with a "Situation Five" response.

Modifié par General TSAR, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:04 .

[Sir JK]

Xilizhra wrote...
...and full integration, which, yes, has mage priests within the Chantry who can advocate for them and will also likely have authority over nonmages should their position grant it. Mages in this case could also inherit and hold titles.

But affirmed members of the chantry cannot hold titles. Sebastian, who is affirmed, has to renege on his vow to take up his cause to become Prince of Starkhaven. So if a mage can pursue a career in the chantry -and- hold a title, then he or she would be more powerful then either noble or priest.

[Xilizhra]

Avernus... 'might' be a genius mage, but he was clearly stupid enough to get everyone killed and get himself trapped with blood magic.

And yet, he was the only survivor.

@eluvianix: Of course not - massive regulations on the types of magic taught would be my first step. ANYONE out of a military organization shown to be studying or using combat magic should be - at the very least, severely fined and at the worst Tranquilized.

Given the Chantry's conscription practices, the entire Circle is a quasi-military order.

But affirmed members of the chantry cannot hold titles. Sebastian, who
is affirmed, has to renege on his vow to take up his cause to become
Prince of Starkhaven. So if a mage can pursue a career in the chantry
-and- hold a title, then he or she would be more powerful then either
noble or priest.

I mean that mages can do either, not both.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:03 .

[Medhia Nox]

@GeneralTSAR: And that does make the mage situation complex.

I'm not sure "why" families cannot be a part of the mage's life, but it's something I think does far more harm than good.

I assume it has something to do with loyalties... and I would NEVER let mage parents teach their children, I don't care how many people babble nonsensically about the Hawkes.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@GeneralTSAR: And that does make the mage situation complex.

I'm not sure "why" families cannot be a part of the mage's life, but it's something I think does far more harm than good.

I assume it has something to do with loyalties... and I would NEVER let mage parents teach their children, I don't care how many people babble nonsensically about the Hawkes.

True, the Hawke's were a unique situation. But even still, family visitation is hardly a bad thing.

[Xilizhra]

You seem to be implying that this is the current way the system is ran. I disagree with you. Maybe it was this way in Kirkwall, but it definitely wasn't like that at Lake Calenhad. There are bad seeds everywhere.

It is what the Chantry and former system (as there currently is none) were, in fact. There's no getting around that the templars can have people murdered or mentally ravaged on the Maker's will.

[General TSAR]

@Nox.

I know.

As a Templar Supporter I am uncomfortable with giving Walking and Breathing WMDs family visitation rights but if it curbs some inner resentment and prevents the deaths of Templar Warriors in future incidents, why not?

Modifié par General TSAR, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:12 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Like the current situation?

@EmperorSahlertz:  It's generous that you call them discussions.

Xil is perfectly capable of rationally arguing in a discussion.

When?

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Like the current situation?

@EmperorSahlertz:  It's generous that you call them discussions.

Xil is perfectly capable of rationally arguing in a discussion.

When?

Like she is doing right now.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Not two pages ago, she argued that she wanted her ideas of how the game should go, to be the ONLY way the game should go. That is not rational. That is moronic.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not two pages ago, she argued that she wanted her ideas of how the game should go, to be the ONLY way the game should go. That is not rational. That is moronic.

How strange, I rather thought that we all wanted our ideas for the game to be implemented.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not two pages ago, she argued that she wanted her ideas of how the game should go, to be the ONLY way the game should go. That is not rational. That is moronic.

Like you Templar supporters do not do the same?

[HiroVoid]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not two pages ago, she argued that she wanted her ideas of how the game should go, to be the ONLY way the game should go. That is not rational. That is moronic.

Like you Templar supporters do not do the same?

Just out of curiosity, can you cite a post of a templar supporter doing so (in a non-joking manner)?  I'm sure it'd be possible with multiple users, but I'm honestly curious for an example.