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[txgoldrush]

The MAIN THEME of the entire saga is this.

The series is about the conflict that arises when one attempts to control the destiny of another, for the best of intentions or the worst drives for power, ignorant or lacking understanding of the thoughts and feelings or the capabilities of those they try to control.

Not only does this incorporate the Krogan Rebellions and the Morning War storylines, but Cerberus and the Reapers themselves. Not only this, many sidequests and stories also deal with this theme, Project Overlord for example.

So saying that the endings do not match the themes of the series is not only wrong....its dishonest, ignorant, and plain dumb.

From the transportation up the beam to the firing of the crucible, the main theme of the entire saga is not only portrayed once, but THREE times over. How? TIM tries to control the Reapers ignorant that they have indoctrinated him, Leviathans created the Catalyst as a tool ignorant of the capability to turn against them, and then the big one, the Catalyst tries to control the destiny of all sentient life, ignorant or lacking understanding of their feelings, and their capabilities as well. And really this is how the Reapers are defeated, the Catalyst underestimated organics resourcefulness and the cycle finally can end. Nevermind the foreshadowing when Shepard states time and time again that the Reapers do not understand them. Of all the talk of Reapers saying that organics would never understand them, in the end, it was the Reapers never understanding organics...that's the twist. And that's the reason for the CONFLICT, not the Catalyst's motives. Its his METHODS.

However, the theme is NOT about resolving these conflicts, ONLY that they happen. In fact many of these conflicts Shepard doesn't resolve or resolve in a positive manner for both sides. And in the end, Shepard him or herself has to control the destiny of others to achieve victory, but here is the difference....he or she is mindful of thoughts and feelings, especially Paragon.

Combine this with the main theme of ME3 itself (while the series has its main theme, standalone, each title has its own main theme), which the main theme of mE3 is victory through sacrifice, well there you go, the ending DOES match the themes of the series.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 13 novembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[dorktainian]

the only way we can control our own destiny is to........

or maybe its not the end at all....

[His Name was HYR!!]

 I hit on an idea like this some time ago.


From the 'archives of H: http://social.biowar.../index/16463091

[dirtdog13]

So Shepard is doomed to repeat the mistakes of others.
Meh, i don't buy it. Even if he's paragon or the smartest person in the universe, 5min timeframe is not enough time at all to make a decision that impacts the whole galaxy in such and such ways.

[dorktainian]

just put on 'dark side of the moon' by pink floyd, sit back, close your eyes, and away you go.

[TheProtheans]

Your post and your signature contradict one another.

[NeonFlux117]

The Illusion of Choice is the main theme of Mass Effect- especially illustrated in ME3.

Illusion of Choice.

There are other themes as well- Mostly trans-humanism, racism, sacrifice, deus ex machina, redemption, victory and so on.

But the main theme is the Illusion of Choice.

[Rusty Sandusky]

 I thought this was the main theme

[Stakrin]

TheProtheans wrote...

Your post and your signature contradict one another.

they go together really well actually. 

It it was a good read, and it makes sense. 
That is one of the reasons control is sketchy to me. Even if Shepard is only trying the best, if he/she is up there for so long, in. 50,000 years will he be able to understand all the new changes to the galaxy? His old ways of doing thigs could suddenly be wrong.

[Obadiah]

@txgoldrush
There is a definite theme of power and how it is used running through the entire trilogy. Shepard is constantly given more and more power as the game progresses, while being pitted against greater and greater enemies.

I agree that "the conflict that arises when one attempts to control the destiny of another" is the recurring theme of the trilogy. To add two more to your examples, look at how the Reapers controlled the Protheans to transform them into the Collectors, or how the Protheans tried to control the Rachni.

But there are so many themes in a story as vast as Mass Effect that it is hard to judge one as the main. This is why I can't subscribe to the idea by some that the endings betrayed them.

Modifié par Obadiah, 14 novembre 2013 - 01:53 .

[Xamufam]

@NeonFlux117

For one, the series has not been about sacrifice. It's been about defiance of fate and the fight against the inevitable. Sacrifice plays a large role in that, but it's far from the defining characteristic. Every game presented the Reapers as an invincible force, that we would never win against them, that fighting was futile. Shepard did it anyway. This is best expressed in the suicide mission in ME2. They literally spend an entire game banging on about how you're going to die on this mission, but Shepard puts together their crew and survives in spite of that. The themes of defiance of fate and optimism in the face of annihilation are heavily ingrained in the series, most likely due to the source material it draws inspiration from. The end of ME3 directly contradicts this. Shepard just accepts the Deus ex Machina, without even thinking to question it, and blindly accepts the Catalyst's words as gospel. They could have fixed this one fairly well with an expanded dialogue there, where you get to actually question the thing, but it never happened.

Also, another major recurring theme of the series is strength through unity because of diversity. In ME1 and even moreso in 2, you're bringing together a team with wildly divergent backgrounds and forging a sum greater than its parts out of it. In ME3, the same theme is applied on a significantly larger scale. You're bringing together whole species, arbitrating disputes and bringing the entire galaxy together to achieve something never before seen. At least one of the end choices (synthesis) spits in the face of this. It goes from "our strengths used cooperatively make us better", to "conformity and sameness is the best". It's a rather jarring transition.

Finally, I would say the biggest theme of the entire series is the importance of free will, the impact of choice, and what it means to be a person. This is explored countless times throughout the series, most prominently with Legion and EDI. There's several instances where they learn what it means to be an independent, sapient being, and the privileges (and responsibility) that come with having free will. The Catalyst directly states that free will is irrelevant, and choices are meaningless. It's not a matter of choices having an impact on the end cutscene. The problem is that the Catalyst explicitly says that no matter what choices are made or what happens in the future, synthetic life will kill organic life. It's a complete rejection of the base concept the game is centered on. It says that no matter what, things will always play out exactly this way, but the game spent the last 100+ hours telling the player the exact opposite. That is very much a severe thematic shift.

That's just the major thematic problems with the ending, there's also a wide variety of other mechanical problems with the way it was handled, especially the lack of foreshadowing of and blatant (and literal) deus ex machina that is the Catalyst.

+there is barely anything about trans-humanism, no real detail. even edi said shepard is not transhuman

awtr.wikidot.com/long:this-is-not-a-pipe

Modifié par Troxa, 14 novembre 2013 - 05:38 .

[maaaad365]

For me the main theme is the struggle against all odds and winning. Shepard is just a human with normal powers, he is not a superhero, yet he defeats what seems to be an inevitable destiny.

I always get inspiration/encouragement when playing this game, especially 1 and 2.

[SDW]

I don't agree with you on "bad vs. good control of other people" being the main theme. Mind you, whether saying the themes were abandoned is "wrong ... dishonest, ignorant, and plain dumb" really depends on what you take to be the main theme(s) (and why on earth would it be "dishonest" to voice such an opinion when one sees something else as the main theme?).
But let's have a look at what consequences it would have should I be wrong there.

So, control without understanding will lead to problems, but if you have empathy for other people, it's totally okay to control their destinies? In other words: dictatorship is bad, but benevolent and understanding dictatorship is good. That sounds like one twisted moral to me.

And you even specify that especially paragon Shepards have this empathy. I dare say, not especially, but only - renegade Shepards are ruthless, and it also shows in their different lines in Control ending. What about them? If you play the renegade way and choose Control, it then means that your Shepard will now continue the long line of "bad" control of destinies? Would mean one's fought through all this to finally become one of the bad guys oneself - lesson not learned.

Synthesis is also control of other people's destinies because Shepard simply decides a major change for them, without their input. They cannot decline or first think about it. Here, Shepard doesn't even know what exactly will happen, he can just hope for the best (also, he will be dead anyway when the green energy hits). Anyway, all his empathy of people doesn't help here because the final result is out of his (heh) control. How does this ending make a point on loving control of other people's destinies when no-one really can control the effects of Synthesis?

[KevinT18]

This is a very Canadian game from a very Canadian studio. The main theme to me was always collaboration and tolerance.

ME1 told us space racists are bad and these uglies we were at first shocked at were lovable. ME2 was a band of misfits and dangerous criminals/assassins, but they all helped and learned to love. ME3 was this turned to a 10, the whole galaxy on board. If the UN's creators had a creative writing team, this would have been their space opera fantasy.

[SwobyJ]

KevinT18 wrote...

This is a very Canadian game from a very Canadian studio. The main theme to me was always collaboration and tolerance.

ME1 told us space racists are bad and these uglies we were at first shocked at were lovable. ME2 was a band of misfits and dangerous criminals/assassins, but they all helped and learned to love. ME3 was this turned to a 10, the whole galaxy on board. If the UN's creators had a creative writing team, this would have been their space opera fantasy.

Yet the Mass Effect universe's version of the UN sucked and perpetuated lies in order to get everyone to work together..

[Argentoid]

I take "Vigil" as the ME theme.

[FREEGUNNER]

See my sig for the main theme..

[ImaginaryMatter]

I always assumed the main theme was something along the lines of unity. In the first game you ride around in a ship that is a collaborative effort with a multi-species squad of loveable misfits. In the second game you build a different squad of loveable misfits, deal with their problems, win their loyalties, and beat a no-win situation through friendship. In the third game you gather War Assets of every sentient race to build something called a Crucible, which is hardly a subtle name.

[ShadowLordXII]

If that's the theory then cool.

But isn't the point of the decision chamber that each of the four choices will have lasting impact on the universe? Essentially forcing our will over others rather they like it or not? That makes it sound like Shepard is becoming what the Reapers represent and that should not be a good thing.

Reject=Condemn the galaxy to defeat/Mass Suicide
Control=Become the Catalyst and use the Reapers as a galactic protection force/Mass Slavery
Synthesis=Turn everyone into synthetic/organic hybrids and homogenize every species/Mass Molestation
Destroy=Destroy all synthetic life to end the reaper threat to organic life once and for all/Mass Genocide

And even if we accept the notion that this theory is the central theme of Mass Effect, it's so-called "climax" in the form of the Catalyst and the Decision Chamber is implemented in such a way that it causes the plot to collapse in on itself because the Catalyst's existence contradicts the main plot of ME1 which itself was the founding stone of the whole series.

In short, the theme may be good, but internal consistency and narrative cohesion are far more important. If neither of these things are present, then your theme won't be able to maintain itself.

[SwobyJ]

Main theme is choice.

[Jorji Costava]

I don't know if there is one "central theme" to the story (nor am I convinced that a story needs one single dominating theme), but I've suggested before that one of the few themes that stays consistent throughout the series is the idea that we need to overcome our history. Both the Genophage arc and the Geth/Quarian arc are about two groups struggling to overcome their bitterness and racial hatred for each other. The loyalty missions of ME2 are about the various characters' need to overcome their Freudian issues and stuff; each character (with the possible exception of Grunt) is struggling to overcome his or her past in some way or another.

On top of all this, the idea that the relays and Citadel were actually built by the Reapers suggests that Galactic Civilization is somehow tied down to the past in a problematic way (the Protheans' greatest victory was building their own darned relay, after all). So everywhere you look, you see this idea that we all need to break free of the bonds of the past.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Oh god, not another Goldrush thread...

"The theme is sacrifice. It's not my fault you don't get it. Quit complaining"

- TxGoldrush.

[dreamgazer]

Argentoid wrote...

I take "Vigil" as the ME theme.

Ding, ding, ding.

[Sebby]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The Illusion of Choice is the main theme of Mass Effect- especially illustrated in ME3.

Illusion of Choice.

There are other themes as well- Mostly trans-humanism, racism, sacrifice, deus ex machina, redemption, victory and so on.

But the main theme is the Illusion of Choice.

Mass Effect has illusion of illusion of choice. It's so transparent that your choices mean jack and that one is playing a linear gears clone with dialogue and  "choose your few second cutscenes" options.

Some have sadly bought into it though and I've even seen a few on here talking smack about JRPGs being "linear" and of regular (and better) shooters like Gears and CoD.

Modifié par Seboist, 14 novembre 2013 - 02:57 .