420 réponses à ce sujet

[Firky]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Firky wrote...

Why would anyone (who didn't attend PAX etc) be expected to know any of this .... ?

I think the point is more that those who did not attend PAX should acknowledge there is context that they are missing.

Aha, right.

I think that's what I find most interesting. That people with different xp with different games and genres etc always bring their own context to seeing this stuff. So, how do developers decide what to show? 

[TurretSyndrome]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


I do understand your point of view.

It could easily be a team effort.  Individual classes could also bring other elements to the table as well (whether as a team effort or through their own individual means).


If it seems like I'm defensive, it's because I do feel that way.  It doesn't appear to be a discussion, but rather very pointed and aggressive commentary towards a video that strips out a lot of context (always a huge issue for RPGs I find... including playable demos) by the nature of showing it.

Now, I suppose we could have shown nothing (though this would've denying the people that loved what they saw the exposure they received, so it's not a decision that would be free).  There was also "I know we said this game is to be out for 2013, but here's some stuff just to show you that the game is, in fact, coming along."

Well, in that case, please don't take my comments as aggressive, as I don't intend them to be, although I am guilty of being very blunt. That's why I included the smiley face, just in case. 

I was continuing the discussion with all destructive elements in general, in mind. Arguing about a gate for this long would be ridiculous. 

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:02 .

[thats1evildude]

Rawgrim wrote...

And where does it say that any one of the DA characters are mytthical? The only mythical one is Flemmeth. The rest are normal people caught up in war and such.

Alistair is a templar, a Grey Warden and the last descendant of the Calenhad bloodline.

Morrigan is the daughter of the Witch of the Wilds herself.

Wynne is an accomplished mage fused with a powerful Fade spirit.

Oghren is said to be one of, if not the, finest warriors of his generation and a veteran of countless battles with the darkspawn.

Leliana is an Orlesian bard who stopped a war and became an agent of the Divine.

Zevran is an Antivan Crow capable of waging a one-man war on his order.

Sten is a qunari captain who eventually became the Arishok.

Shale's a freaking golem, and a free-willed one to boot.

None of these people are "ordinary." They're the heroes of their age.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:06 .

[In Exile]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

And YES, it DOES matter because her smashing the gate and the Inquisitor smashing holes in the ground with his sword says something about the tone of the game and I need to be able to take the game seriously, the abilities need to feel believable and plausible (notice how I'm not saying realistic?). I am not saying you should be having Witcher levels of realism, I'm really not. I like both franchises for different reasons but please try to keep a semblance of believability in your game.

Since you dug up this topic, I'm going to pose the same question to you that I pose to everyone who gets worked up about this whole "believability" angle:

How do you deal with the fact that damage is totally out of proportion with reality 100% of the time in RPGs (characters can get literally set on fire or munched on by dragons and suffer 0 ill effects).

Why is it not believable to have animations a certain way but totally believable to have absolutely no realistic reaction to damage at all, for either the player or enemies?

[Rawgrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Aragorn
has special blood. He is also a ranger. Its plausible that he has more
stamina than normal humans. He is also in his 80s in the movies. big
hint there too.

going by that "she has seeker training" should be sufficient explanation for gate-smashing strength.

Then why do the seekers have catapults?

I think it's clear at this point it's exclusively to frustrate you.

Seriously, I will simply conclude you as being obstinate if you cannot POSSIBLY come up with reason for this.  Which is wholly uninteresting and certainly not worthy of me wasting any more of my time.  Definitively, I feel there is no point in answering because there's no point as nothing will convince you and I'm just getting angry.


I'm of the opinion that games are about developers and players meeting somewhere in the middle in terms of suspending disbelief and allowing the players to have fun.  Evidently, this will be something that you won't like, so hopefully other parts of the game will still be enjoyable for you.  Sorry.

I was merely pointing out that there is no reason to belive seekers are superhuman. If that makes you belive I am obstinate, then fine. It seems to happen every time I disagree with you, and it ends with you getting somewhat personal. I am abit negative towards the subject bing brought up in the thread, yes. Further back I listed up alot of possebilities on how to open a gate like that, using the entire party, or individuals or whatsnot. I thought that was abit constructive. You never seem to notice all the bragging I do about this game though. Wich I do ALOT. Pretty much everything abbout this game looks great. I just don`t feel the subject of this thread is a  positive aspect of what we have seen of the game so far.

By all means, disagree with me at every turn. Its all good. Opinions are opinions.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

In Exile wrote...

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

And YES, it DOES matter because her smashing the gate and the Inquisitor smashing holes in the ground with his sword says something about the tone of the game and I need to be able to take the game seriously, the abilities need to feel believable and plausible (notice how I'm not saying realistic?). I am not saying you should be having Witcher levels of realism, I'm really not. I like both franchises for different reasons but please try to keep a semblance of believability in your game.

Since you dug up this topic, I'm going to pose the same question to you that I pose to everyone who gets worked up about this whole "believability" angle:

How do you deal with the fact that damage is totally out of proportion with reality 100% of the time in RPGs (characters can get literally set on fire or munched on by dragons and suffer 0 ill effects).

Why is it not believable to have animations a certain way but totally believable to have absolutely no realistic reaction to damage at all, for either the player or enemies?

I get what you're saying but as I said, abilities and reactions NEED to be built in that way to make the game fun so the sacrifice of realism is justifiable. Breaking down the gate with your shield is not justifiable because the devs don't need to throw believability out of the window in that particular area of the game/play. It is really a question of where we draw the line.

Next stop, Cassandra farts and all the dragons get kocked back on the moon.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

[Rawgrim]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

Well. If you are playing a rogue, it would be more logical for him\\her to chose the stealthy option. In all fairness.

[The Hierophant]

Finally! my system crashed so many times it's not even funny. I hate looking like a punk when i can't respond.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Question: If gates can be smashed this easily, why would you even bother to buid castles in the first place?

Is there any chance that this gate isn't the same as a regular ol' gate?

How many of Thedas's gates are conveniently substandard?

So basically a tacit admission that your perspective is that, based on the PAX video, there could be no reason why this gate could be weakened at that the most reasonable understanding is that all gates, in general, can be destroyed.

Key word conveniently, like in all the destroyable gates being rust ridden pieces of scrap metal. 

Or should we take this even further and assume that not only are all gates equally ineffective, but that every warrior ever is also just as capable of taking out said gates with impunity.

This depends on the execution of the feature. Interpretations could go either way depending on how it's handled.

Or, is this is a castle that's (from the video) been captured by a cult (do you know how long they have been in occupying the castle?) and has been the target of various schemes by the inquisitor to weaken the castle (also stated from the video) through a variety of means?

This sound interesting but it's the execution that worries me.

Could none of these factors, coupled with Cassandra being more than just another warrior (a Seeker, at that), while neglecting that it's a hasty playthrough of a 30 minute demo, influence stuff like this?

Is this confirmation that most Seekers could replicate Cass's combat feats or is she the Rudolph of the Seekers? Sorry for my pessimism but the feature's potential depth is an uncertainty to me  at this point. There's a possibilty that it could end up very similar to the pre alpha due to cuts.

Or is the only reasonable conclusion: All gates are bad, because our sample size of one gate was able to be circumvented by Cassandra?

This depends on the depth and execution of the feature when the beta rolls around. Sorry for my pessimism but my computer's condition is amplifying it now.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:15 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

how many times must it be said that the demo was a highly abbreviated and nerfed approximation of what could be in the game

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:15 .

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

Forgive me but I don't remember hearing that. Can I have a source please?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

several times in this thread, several times every time this topic has come up since PAX, from people who attended PAX (such as myself).

party members damage output was altered for the demo to be enormously overpowered so they demo could proceed at a watchable pace. the breaching the keep gameplay did not encompass all efforts or preparations taken to breach the keep.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:24 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

In case anyone is curious here is the Q&A thread that was going on with people who attended PAX

[The Hierophant]

Pseudocognition wrote...

several times in this thread, several times every time this topic has come up since PAX, from people who attended PAX (such as myself).

party members damage output was altered for the demo to be enormously overpowered so they demo could proceed at a watchable pace. the breaching the keep gameplay did not encompass all efforts or preparations taken to breach the keep.

Do you think all avenues of breaching the keep will make it to the final product?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

The Hierophant wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

several times in this thread, several times every time this topic has come up since PAX, from people who attended PAX (such as myself).

party members damage output was altered for the demo to be enormously overpowered so they demo could proceed at a watchable pace. the breaching the keep gameplay did not encompass all efforts or preparations taken to breach the keep.

Do you think all avenues of breaching the keep will make it to the final product?

absolutely. though its possible the part of the route shown may not appear as it did in the demo. with a year left its very likely that the content isn't locked down and it could be unrecognizable by the time we get our hands on it.

edit: though as to "all avenues" we don't know how precisely how many there will be for a particular keep, but I'd say we can expect more than one way to get the job done.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:36 .

[The Hierophant]

Pseudocognition wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

several times in this thread, several times every time this topic has come up since PAX, from people who attended PAX (such as myself).

party members damage output was altered for the demo to be enormously overpowered so they demo could proceed at a watchable pace. the breaching the keep gameplay did not encompass all efforts or preparations taken to breach the keep.

Do you think all avenues of breaching the keep will make it to the final product?

absolutely. though its possible the part of the route shown may not appear as it did in the demo. with a year left its very likely that the content isn't locked down and it could be unrecognizable by the time we get our hands on it.

edit: though as to "all avenues" we don't know how precisely how many there will be for a particular keep, but I'd say we can expect more than one way to get the job done.

Cool. That link you posted was a good reminder. It's crazy how time flies though.

[Hilarystamp]

REALLY! How can people not be excited about this. Your complaining because you want reality? Let's just take magic away from mages, and point ears off of the elves and all the other wonderful things about this game. Cassandra is a badass. I want more smashing doors! And all the wonderful things you have in store bioware! MORE AWESOMENESS!

[MakutaDax]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

They did mention that simply bashing the gate takes away the element of surprise meaning that your enemies are, presumably, much more difficult. I suppose that means that different routes have different merits. I'm more of a 'bash in the gate and end al their lives!' type, so the gate goes for me. xD

[The Hierophant]

Hilarystamp wrote...

REALLY! How can people not be excited about this. Your complaining because you want reality? Let's just take magic away from mages, and point ears off of the elves and all the other wonderful things about this game. Cassandra is a badass. I want more smashing doors! And all the wonderful things you have in store bioware! MORE AWESOMENESS!

Fight me.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

Hilarystamp wrote...

REALLY! How can people not be excited about this. Your complaining because you want reality? Let's just take magic away from mages, and point ears off of the elves and all the other wonderful things about this game. Cassandra is a badass. I want more smashing doors! And all the wonderful things you have in store bioware! MORE AWESOMENESS!

Oh god please stop.

[TKavatar]

Hopefully this gate smashing is because of something magic related, like an enchanted shield or Cassandra having Spirit Warrior abilities. I can accept that at least, because it fits with what we've seen so far in DA.

But if any random warrior can learn this ability then that's where I draw the line.

Modifié par TKavatar, 14 novembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Deverz wrote...

Well, realistically a dragon should be able to kill you instantly in one swoop, but you're going to be able to kill dragons in this game.

Smashing a gate down with a shield doesn't bother me very much.

To answer your question, maybe it's cooler than *not* being able to?

You have to admit, having the entire demo of Cass trying and failing to smash the gate down while her seekers just awkwardly watch would be hilarious.

"Captain, you've been trying to shield bash the gate for fifteen minutes, maybe we should-"
"I HAVE THIS DAMNIT, GIVE ME A FEW MORE MINUTES" *moar smashing*

[AppealToReason]

She's THE CASQUATCH! Have you seen those arms? Makes Lou Ferigno look like Mr Bean.

[Wissenschaft]

the Devs really shouldn't wasted their time with this topic. Dragon age was never realistic with its combat. Even in DA:O my warriors/rogues could cut down hordes of monsters including giant ogres but somehow smashing a gate is going too far? This is an argument for the sake of argument, boarding on trolling.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 14 novembre 2013 - 08:15 .