420 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Why can Cassandra knock down the gate of the Stronghold with her shield?

Because shut up!
*cookie to whomever gets the refference*

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 novembre 2013 - 09:10 .

[Nohvarr]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

Because blizting through the front gate means I have to fight my way through their fortified positions, in exactly the way they planned and prepared for. Essentially, bashing my way through the front door is cool an all, but it alerts every single person in the keep to my location, and the way they designed the defenses likely means I'll face the toughest opposition by doing this. However sneaking in through the back or other alternate entrance means I don't have to fight them on their terms.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

I just hope that taking the frontal assault will be harder otherwise it becomes trivial and won't encourage you to explore and find other ways in.

[iOnlySignIn]

Jack crushed 3 YMIR Mechs in a split second.

With her mind.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 14 novembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

Jack is a biotic, a very powerful one at that. Cassandra, while strong is still just a normal human.

Modifié par Octavian the Emperor, 14 novembre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Nohvarr]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Jack is a biotic, a very powerful one at that. Cassandra, while strong is still just a normal human.

Define 'Normal' human in Dragon Age, I need t understand what you are thinking.

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

She may be stronger than the average human but she isn't the ****ing Hulk. Why is that so hard to understand.

[The Elder King]

Well, my Warden seems to have superhuman resilience, since he can survive being smashed in a ogre's hand several times, when Cailan was killed with one hit.

[Nohvarr]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

She may be stronger than the average human but she isn't the ****ing Hulk. Why is that so hard to understand.

Actually you wouldn't need hulk level strength to smash a gate, Colossus of the X-men could likely do it as xould Benjamin J Grimm.

That said you still haven't answered my question, what do you define as a normal human in Dragon Age.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 14 novembre 2013 - 09:46 .

[THEFRIGGINDOOMGUY!]

Based on the build of the characters and the fact that they are humans (like us), I find it reasonable to assume that they are just as strong as us or they might be slightly physically stronger but not strong enough to bash a ****ing metal gate. Basically, all you need to do is look at them to have an idea how strong they are. And if every person had Hulk strength, the forts would be built with THAT in mind, not in relation with how strong people in real life are. The forts are clearly built with the notion that people are just as strong as real ones because if they had Hulk strength, one of their primary defenses would not be "just" a metal gate (which they can easily smash) Do you understand now or are you just trolling?

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Okay Mr. Allan, I have to ask. Is this your way of reassuring these people that the destructible elements in the game will take a lot more than a couple of bashes in the actual game? Just an honest question.

Do you think the gameplay mechanic would be more enjoyable if it took 20 hits instead of 2?

If you had people using ranged attacks against the party at the same time, potentially.  It would at least give some sense of this being a contested attempt to take a fortresss.

[Uccio]

Nohvarr wrote...

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

She may be stronger than the average human but she isn't the ****ing Hulk. Why is that so hard to understand.

Actually you wouldn't need hulk level strength to smash a gate, Colossus of the X-men could likely do it as xould Benjamin J Grimm.

That said you still haven't answered my question, what do you define as a normal human in Dragon Age.

As normal as is your average person in real life?

[Uccio]

Nohvarr wrote...

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Oh and another thing. If it is possible to just (literally) blitz through the front gate, why would one take alternative routes at all?

Because blizting through the front gate means I have to fight my way through their fortified positions, in exactly the way they planned and prepared for. Essentially, bashing my way through the front door is cool an all, but it alerts every single person in the keep to my location, and the way they designed the defenses likely means I'll face the toughest opposition by doing this. However sneaking in through the back or other alternate entrance means I don't have to fight them on their terms.

For such thing to happen one should seriously question the sanity of people willing to fight such gate breaker. If I would be a foot soldier in medieval times and saw a person ram right through the gate I would be running to the opposite direction. Anyone strong enough to smash down a castle gate would most likely be strong enough to kill me with one swing even I would have full body armour, sword and shield. You just don't block such hits.

[KiwiQuiche]

hhh89 wrote...

Well, my Warden seems to have superhuman resilience, since he can survive being smashed in a ogre's hand several times, when Cailan was killed with one hit.

Cailan sucked, that's why. Well that and he was exhausted and half-dead from all the fighting before the ogre got him.

[Nohvarr]

Octavian the Emperor wrote...

Based on the build of the characters and the fact that they are humans (like us), I find it reasonable to assume that they are just as strong as us or they might be slightly physically stronger but not strong enough to bash a ****ing metal gate. Basically, all you need to do is look at them to have an idea how strong they are.

Bit of a side note, but my Starfleet training demands I point this out. Assuming equal strength based on looks would be a bad idea

Do you understand now or are you just trolling?

Not trolling asking an honest question of how you define baseline humanity. Now that we have a baseline for standard humans let's see what superior feats they are able to accomplish in previous games.


Berserk
 
Cooldown: 30s The stench of blood and death drives the berserker into a willing fury, providing a bonus to damage. Rages incur a penalty to stamina regeneration, however, which Constraint reduces. Resilience adds a bonus to health regeneration in this mode. 

Resilience

Requires: Level 8 The berserker can now focus the power of rage more effectively, gaining a bonus to health regeneration while Berserk is active, as well as a bonus to nature resistance that applies at all times. 

Final Blow
 
Requires: Level 12 All the berserker's stamina goes into a single swing. If the blow connects, the attack inflicts extra damage proportional to the amount of stamina lost.

Templar

Cleanse Area
 

Requires: Level 9 The templar purges the area of magic, removing all dispellable effects from those nearby. Friendly fire possible

Holy Smite
 
Requires: Level 15 The templar strikes out with righteous fire, inflicting spirit damage on the target and other nearby enemies. If the target is a spellcaster, it must pass a mental resistance check or else loses mana and takes additional spirit damage proportional to the mana lost. All affected enemies are stunned or knocked back unless they pass physical resistance checks. 

The above two specilizations each grant some mystic like abilities (regeneration, puring an area of magic) with simple training. Meaning a normal human with sufficient training can master superhuman feats.
Then of course there are all the magical things a Spirit Warrior (a specialization learned from a book) can teach a ‘Normal’ human being

Now this training is not common, and some of it has seemingly been lost, but it still stands that there are normal human out there than can and do accomplish extraordinary things in this world that are beyond the abilities of what you would call a normal human

The following is a mage specialization but the implications are concerning

While this mode is active, the arcane warrior channels magic inward, trading increased fatigue for an attack bonus and the ability to use Spellpower to determine combat damage. Aura of Might and Fade Shroud improve the effects. Additionally, regardless of whether the mode is active, an arcane warrior who has learned this spell may use the magic attribute to satisfy the strength requirement to equip higher-level weapons or armor.

For such thing to happen one should seriously question the sanity of people willing to fight such gate breaker. If I would be a foot soldier in medieval times and saw a person ram right through the gate I would be running to the opposite direction. Anyone strong enough to smash down a castle gate would most likely be strong enough to kill me with one swing even I would have full body armour, sword and shield. You just don't block such hits.

Thing is, these people face Mages, Ogres ad abominations. All powerful creatures they know can be killed. So seeing someone smash through a gate is cause for concern, but breaking your line of defense would likely seem an even worse idea.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:42 .

[TEWR]

Reading some of Allan's initial comments, that puts my mind at ease. I've said before that while I'll probably love doing it for the rule of cool, I'd also prefer more realistic things to be done.

But if this is a means to make the game easier to play, sure I can accept that. That should take precedence perhaps. There are other ways to get into the castle, according to the video, like sneaking.

Now I'd personally prefer either magic to be used or lyrium explosives because that would both be more... grounded(?) in the fabric of reality and still allow the gate to be demolished, but the gates themselves could be rusted really badly since this is an abandoned Grey Warden outpost. I'm not sure how this would affect the gates however. I don't think they could be easily broken (and depending on the level of rust, probably wouldn't be able to open at all anymore, so yay destruction!) but it makes it easier to justify.

Same thing too if there's some sort of shield Cassandra uses that makes it easier. I'm not a fan of "A Wizard Did It" for things like this, but I could begrudgingly accept it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:54 .

[The Elder King]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Cailan sucked, that's why. Well that and he was exhausted and half-dead from all the fighting before the ogre got him.

So in the Dragon Age IP humans at full health are so resilient that their bones don't break when a ogre smash their body in his hands? Got it (I'd like to know how being tired or 'sucked' have anything to do with the a body's resistance to being smashed).
Care to explain why in the same Ostagar the Warden is damaged to the point he was risking death by four-five arrows in the cutscene, but can fight without problems in gameplay with the same (or worse) aumont of arrows in his body, or surviving being chewed by a dragon? Or a Champion warrior being able to repel enemies with his voice?
I understand that people have different breaking point on the realism matter, but let's not pretend that the dragon/ogre surviving is natural. Assuming that the humans' bodies are the same as our world, you can't survive those events.
I want to point out that I don't like the gate bashing. My point is that irrealistic skills and animations were already present in the first game of the IP. Good for you that you didn't have problem with them.

Modifié par hhh89, 14 novembre 2013 - 11:14 .

[hotdogbsg]

The whole Cassandra 'Gate Smash!' has really been a talking point on here since the PAX demo.

I just find it a bit weird that this is the point where the line is drawn but the War Cry in DA:O or Varric's Hail of Arrows is deemed acceptable.

[Rawgrim]

hhh89 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Cailan sucked, that's why. Well that and he was exhausted and half-dead from all the fighting before the ogre got him.

So in the Dragon Age IP humans at full health are so resilient that their bones don't break when a ogre smash their body in his hands? Got it (I'd like to know how being tired or 'sucked' have anything to do with the a body's resistance to being smashed).
Care to explain why in the same Ostagar the Warden is damaged to the point he was risking death by four-five arrows in the cutscene, but can fight without problems in gameplay with the same (or worse) aumont of arrows in his body, or surviving being chewed by a dragon? Or a Champion warrior being able to repel enemies with his voice?
I understand that people have different breaking point on the realism matter, but let's not pretend that the dragon/ogre surviving is natural. Assuming that the humans' bodies are the same as our world, you can't survive those events.
I want to point out that I don't like the gate bashing. My point is that irrealistic skills and animations were already present in the first game of the IP. Good for you that you didn't have problem with them.

When using a hitpoint system, combat will allways look very unrealistic.

[TurretSyndrome]

Nohvarr wrote...

post

Combat abilities are not the same as character overworld abilities. Combat abilities are there as part of the game's challenge. As I explained in the other thread, don't confuse combat and overworld mechanics. Combat abilities and mechanics are affected by a slew of things, from classes and balance to enemy types and attributes, It's a set mode where little can be changed without screwing everything up and even less allowed to look realistic.

Developers can change things in the overworld to fit their needs. It could be clever or simple implementation or stuff like traps, barred areas with furniture(DA:O), and locked doors and gates. It's completely upto them how they wish to go about it. Do they want to keep the realism of things(on the overworld I mean), or do they want to simple execution sacrifing a bit of realism. They chose the latter in the case of the gate. 

My point is, unlike in combat mode, where changing abilities or moves etc might end up requiring huge overhauls, on the overworld, they chose implement it the way they did, even though they had/still have the chance to easily change it to something like a team based action.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 14 novembre 2013 - 11:27 .

[The Elder King]

@Rawgrim: you're right. That doesn't mean that it's necessary to make enemies and PC skills that looks even more unrealistic (DAO had, again, War Cry, some of the bard skills, stealth, Shield Bash/Overpower bring able to send golems to the floor, summonin animal out of air). The hitpoint system didn't force force Bioware to create those skills. The game could've work well without them or with a modified, more realistic version of those skills.
I understand if some people don't consider those skills reality-breaker (though I recall you didn't like much War Cry, right?). That doesn't mean that they can't do it for some of us.
Again, I'd be glad i the gate bashing works in a believable way, and if the skills are toned down to be more realistic. My point is that for me, since DAO, I can play the game without being bothered too much by irrealistic skills and animations, since I had to competely segregate the gameplay from the story.

Modifié par hhh89, 14 novembre 2013 - 11:28 .

[Nohvarr]

hotdogbsg wrote...

The whole Cassandra 'Gate Smash!' has really been a talking point on here since the PAX demo.

I just find it a bit weird that this is the point where the line is drawn but the War Cry in DA:O or Varric's Hail of Arrows is deemed acceptable.

On the one hand it's the only gameplay vid we have and combat tends to be a major portion of these games. I'll even grant that people are concerned the game won't be as good as they hope so that's likely fueling some of these comments. That said I think it's gotten a little out of hand, and I do personally feel that since normal people can become Templars some of these arguments against Cassandra smashing through don't hold much water.

[Rawgrim]

hotdogbsg wrote...

The whole Cassandra 'Gate Smash!' has really been a talking point on here since the PAX demo.

I just find it a bit weird that this is the point where the line is drawn but the War Cry in DA:O or Varric's Hail of Arrows is deemed acceptable.

And where did people say those two examples were acceptable? Hail of Arrows was on par with the gate smashing, thats for sure.

[Wulfram]

Upgraded War Cry was silly. I'd be surprised if there's anyone who complains about the gate bashing who'd disagree with that.

[Nohvarr]

Combat abilities are not the same as character overworld abilities. Combat abilities are there as part of the game.

I see no problem with removing this arbitrary divide. In fact I like it when a game allows me to use combat abilities to solve problem in the overworld. If I’ve bult Cassandra to be able to Shield bash Dragons into submission, why wouldn’t I expect that ability to be transferable in the overworld. And to be fair, what we’re seeing is still apart of the combat side of things since it’s an assault on a keep.