420 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

EDIT: Nevermind.

I'm clearly getting irate.  I am taking a break from the BSN.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

Seems to me like Cassandra breaking down a gate, regardless of the number of physical strikes required to do so, is an abstraction anyway.

It's representative of the choice to use brute force to enter the keep. Not meant to imply that Cassandra, a normal human in relatively nonmagical armor, can literally break down a keep gate.

The standard for what demands a lore explanation and what doesn't is not as consistent as advocates of it insist. For example, we have abstractions like hit points. Are medical doctors in Thedas concerned with restoring wounded persons health bars? No, of course not. Etc.

[Vilegrim]

General TSAR wrote...

Same reason why Women can apparently wear, move, and fight in plate armor.

considering their are women who do that in real life, for a living, that isn't a stretch at all.  Plate armour is lighter and easier to wear than a modern soldiers combat load.  Or indeed the gear you need to carry for a serious hiking and camping trip.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

i'm curious about if since y'all think a maxed out/upgraded shield bash ability shouldn't knock open a weakened gate, whether you think a maxed out speech skill should enable you to resolve centuries long feuds that you have a paragraphs worth of context for

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 14 novembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[Iakus]

Mr.House wrote...
There is no problem. The gate is cleary old and weak, Cass being able to break it is not strange or stupid at all.

Is it?  I mean, it just looked like a gate to me.  Not old or rusty.  But if it is, yeah that makes being able to bash it open a lot more reasonable, even if the visual effects are kinda over the top.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

iakus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
There is no problem. The gate is cleary old and weak, Cass being able to break it is not strange or stupid at all.

Is it?  I mean, it just looked like a gate to me.  Not old or rusty.  But if it is, yeah that makes being able to bash it open a lot more reasonable, even if the visual effects are kinda over the top.

we only saw one gate, whose to say it doesn't look weaker compared to all other gates in the game

[Vilegrim]

Pseudocognition wrote...

i'm curious about if since y'all think that if a maxed out/upgraded shield bash ability shouldn't knock open a weakened gate, whether you think a maxed out speech skill should enable you to resolve centuries long feuds that you have a paragraphs worth of context for

No.  May be able to get an 'enemy mine' going on, or a temporary cease fire to deal with a current threat, but I wouldn't expect it to last.

[aerisblight]

well, Justice KICKED a gate open.... who cares HOW it opens, as long as it OPENS 8D

[upsettingshorts]

They did specifically mention during the demonstration that the keep had been weakened prior to the assault shown. As to what that means practically (wrt the gate or anything else), or what went into that, wasn't detailed. That said, we can safely assume the keep shown is weak in some way, possibly in many ways.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:02 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Honestly who cares, I actually thought it looked badass.

[Dave of Canada]

I'd like it more if the gate would fall instead of exploding if the shield-bash must remain.

Throw in a french-accented guardsman taunting you from the other-side of the gate which gets crushed.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:03 .

[Anthadlas]

I think all people really want from this lengthy discussion is some valid ability to break your way into a castle.

Catapults, Trebuchets, Rams, Explosives, Magic, Corrosive substances. All those are capable of destroying the main gate of a castle and remaining believable without the gate requiring hitpoints or 3 minutes of bashing it detracting from the gameplay.

Having somebody punch a gate apart to avoid bogging down the gameplay does seem a little half arsed when there are lots of other valid and more believable ways to do it.

But hopefully we just lack context and this is further expanded upon or just a place holder not due for game release whilst something more sensible is added.

Modifié par Wraith 02, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:09 .

[General TSAR]

Vilegrim wrote...

considering their are women who do that in real life, for a living, that isn't a stretch at all.

Sprinting while carrying 60-110 pounds of steel in the heat of battle? Yeah....no.

[upsettingshorts]

General TSAR wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

considering their are women who do that in real life, for a living, that isn't a stretch at all.

Sprinting while carrying 60-110 pounds of steel in the heat of battle? Yeah....no.

Clearly I've been giving the wrong people a hard time, unlike Mr "I Think I Know How Strong Women Fighters Are, and How Much Plate Armor Weighs" Guy here.

4. Armor is extremely heavy and renders its wearer immobile.—Wrong.


An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)—less than the full equipment of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into battle sincethe nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is
chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist, the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rareand only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained protected by metal plate. (source)

But hey I'm sure you're okay with Alistair doing all that because he's a man right?  <_<

It's not like we have active duty women combat soldiers today who carry combat gear up to 100 lbs while fighting in notoriously cool and temperate regions such as Iraq.  Whatever bro, sterorytypes and assumptions kick ass and are totally true right?

It takes a special kind of person to come into a threat saying breaking down a keep gate is unrealistic to claim a woman in full plate armor is the real problem they have suspending disbelief.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wraith 02 wrote...

I think all people really want from this lengthy discussion is some valid ability to break your way into a castle.

Catapults, Trebuchets, Rams, Explosives, Magic, Corrosive substances. All those are capable of destroying the main gate of a castle and remaining believable without the gate requiring hitpoints or 3 minutes of bashing it detracting from the gameplay.

I'd agree if it was a really big gate, for a very fortified and impressive keep.

This gate however is small, and the keep had fallen in disrepair, and there's only a handful of cultists in it. It doesn't merit having siege equipment (nevermind the fact that the vast majority of sieges lasted for months, which I'd rather not have unless it's a plot important keep).

[Giggles_Manically]

Because its a video game?

The same one where you can get hit 50 times by a sword but as long as it does not deplete your HP it does not matter?
Besides it was cool!

[The Hierophant]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

EDIT: Nevermind.

I'm clearly getting irate.  I am taking a break from the BSN.

[Anthadlas]

General TSAR wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

considering their are women who do that in real life, for a living, that isn't a stretch at all.

Sprinting while carrying 60-110 pounds of steel in the heat of battle? Yeah....no.

Clearly you have never seen serving female military personel who wear 50lbs of combat armour whilst carrying 100lbs worth of equipment on their back and carrying rifles aswell.

I could understand you thinking that that weight might be impossible even if it isn't. but linking it as specifically impossible for females and attainable by males is just sexist

[Iakus]

Pseudocognition wrote...

we only saw one gate, whose to say it doesn't look weaker compared to all other gates in the game

I certainly can't.  All I can say is as far as gates go, it was very gate-like. 

[Han Shot First]

Joan of Arc, anyone?

[Pzykozis]

So, a flying reptile in the order of 10s of tons with scales that are probably akin in strength and endurance to a foot thick piece of steel, that also somehow evolved a phlogiston gland, both existing and the player character being able to fight and actually kill it is somehow more believable than this?

Man, people pick some really, really weird hills to die on.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

iakus wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

we only saw one gate, whose to say it doesn't look weaker compared to all other gates in the game

I certainly can't.  All I can say is as far as gates go, it was very gate-like. 

that is about the only thing that can be said about that gate with any degree of certainty

[Anthadlas]

Pzykozis wrote...

So, a flying reptile in the order of 10s of tons with scales that are probably akin in strength and endurance to a foot thick piece of steel, that also somehow evolved a phlogiston gland, both existing and the player character being able to fight and actually kill it is somehow more believable than this?

Man, people pick some really, really weird hills to die on.

You really think you are the first person to bring this up? It has been repeatedly brought up and established that Dragons are infact, part of the lore. Who could have guessed.

Nothing in the lore however states that people of regular build and no magical ability can punch their way into a castle.

Hell even if they come up with some crazy reason why she can do it I will be happy as long as it is consistant

[upsettingshorts]

iakus wrote...

Pseudocognition wrote...

we only saw one gate, whose to say it doesn't look weaker compared to all other gates in the game

I certainly can't.  All I can say is as far as gates go, it was very gate-like. 

Well, like I said, with or without visual evidence we must assume the keep is weak in some (or all) respects, given the narration that establish that the keep had been weakened prior to the assault.

As to whether or not this specifically means the gate is either literally rusting off its hinges, or in some abstract fashion is meant to be as weak as if it were, we can't know. 

But the keep "has been weakened" is a fact in evidence.

Wraith 02 wrote...

You really think you are the first person to bring this up? It has been repeatedly brought up and established that Dragons are infact, part of the lore. Who could have guessed.

Nothing in the lore however states that people of regular build and no magical ability can punch their way into a castle.

Hell even if they come up with some crazy reason why she can do it I will be happy as long as it is consistant

Why can't it be an abstraction?  Like... hit points.  Or, I dunno... artificial party limitations.  Or an arrow sticking out of the Warden's face that manages not to have killed them?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:22 .

[General TSAR]

Upsettingshorts wrote...



Clearly I've been giving the wrong people a hard
time, unlike Mr "I Think I Know How Strong Women
Fighters Are, and How Much Plate Armor Weighs" Guy here.

Oh dear, Here we go. 

4. Armor is extremely heavy and renders its wearer immobile.—Wrong.

An entire suit of field armor (that is, armor
for battle) usually weighs between 45 and 55 lbs. (20 to 25 kg), with the
helmet weighing between 4 and 8 lbs. (2 to 4 kg)—less than the full equipment
of a fireman with oxygen gear, or what most modern soldiers have carried into
battle sincethe nineteenth century. Moreover, while most modern equipment is 

chiefly suspended from the shoulders or waist,
the weight of a well-fitted armor is distributed all over the body. It was not
until the seventeenth century that the weight of field armor was greatly
increased in order to render it bulletproof against ever more accurate
firearms. At the same time, however, full armor became increasingly rareand
only vital parts of the body, such as the head, torso, and hands, remained
protected by metal plate. (source)

An armored combatant in the 1400s had
between about 60 to 110 pounds of steel on his head and body. The scientists
wanted to know how that weight affected performance. They recruited battle
experts from the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds, in the U.K., who got into
replicas of four types of European armor.

http://www.scientifi...he-wei-11-07-19

Seems like we are at an impasse.

But hey I'm sure you're okay with Alistair doing all that because
he's a man right?  
file:///C:/DOCUME~1/2/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif

Sure I guess?

It's not like we have active duty women combat
soldiers today who carry combat gear up to 100 lbs while fighting in notoriously cool and temperate
regions such as Iraq.  Whatever bro, sterorytypes and assumptions kick ass
and are totally true right?

http://www.youtube.c...T5jqy-iE#t=1011

My buddies who've been to conflict zones within integrated units say almost the same thing. 

But I digress.

Modifié par General TSAR, 14 novembre 2013 - 07:22 .