420 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Why is there even a need to include a metal gate just to let the player smash in mere seconds?

In a time capped demo, a large part of the intent is to simply show the types of things that players can do in a game.

There's nothing forcing the encounter you saw to play out in exactly the same way at release (and it's entirely possible that that specific encounter doesn't even stay that way by the time release comes around).

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Timeouts incoming for those that feel compelled to incessantly reply to each other in a hostile manner.

the gate completely shatters into splinters.

Note that this is akin to "Leliana got decapitated and therefore should have no head."

If you'd prefer, we could alter the scene so that it's merely a dented gate that has a spot to get through that trips up the AI followers when pathfinding and a host of other potential issues.

Smashing the gate into splinters has advantages from a gameplay perspective to hopefully provide a less aggravating experience for (most?) gamers, as opposed to strictly adhering to expectations of realism which would not only cause potential risks to players playing the game, but would also be a more difficult feature to implement (getting a modeller/animator to properly set the situation up, rather than reusing already existing - and used in a lot of other places - splinters as part of a prefab).


This also includes reducing a situation where the player could smash through it with 20 (or more) hits, which ultimately isn't that fun and IMO artificially extends the length of games by having the players do things that are purely buffer.

Sorry.

Er... please elaborate.

And you could deal with the gate issue by not having one in the first place, explosives, magic, or any alternative that makes any sense within game world. Here it just looks you took the easy and silly way, thinking it looked badass.

[Allan Schumacher]

And you could deal with the gate issue by not having one in the first place, explosives, magic, or any alternative that makes any sense within game world. Here it just looks you took the easy and silly way, thinking it looked badass.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm writing about.

I'm talking about being mad because she used her shield to bash the gate and the gate was destroyed into splinters.

I'm sure some people here would've been more satisfied if the gate were simply dented in a way that still let the player get through but didn't result in "the gate completely shatters into splinters."

We could've done other things, sure. But you asked for my elaboration and it's mostly "You didn't understand what I was referring to with my post." I'm talking about "we were showing Cassandra do a shield bash and how could we reflect the damage to the gate." We probably could've done this without "the gate completely [shattering] into splinters" but if the specifics of the gate being obliterated (as opposed to something more low key that still let the player get by), then that person is focusing too much on the specifics for what we're hoping on doing with the game.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:07 .

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

And you could deal with the gate issue by not having one in the first place, explosives, magic, or any alternative that makes any sense within game world. Here it just looks you took the easy and silly way, thinking it looked badass.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm writing about.

I'm talking about being mad because she used her shield to bash the gate and the gate was destroyed into splinters.

I'm sure some people here would've been more satisfied if the gate were simply dented in a way that still let the player get through but didn't result in "the gate completely shatters into splinters."

We could've done other things, sure. But you asked for my elaboration and it's mostly "You didn't understand what I was referring to with my post." I'm talking about "we were showing Cassandra do a shield bash." We probably could've done this without "the gate completely [shattering] into splinters."

Actually, the elaboration part was about the dangers to players, sorry for being vague.

[Allan Schumacher]

Actually, the elaboration part was about the dangers to players, sorry for being vague.

They are right in the post....

"If you'd prefer, we could alter the scene so that it's merely a dented gate that has a spot to get through that trips up the AI followers when pathfinding and a host of other potential issues."


The gate is "smashed into pieces" because it removes the gate. The barrier has already been bypassed. Forcing us to make it appear as a smaller pathfinding (read: aggravating) bottleneck because it appears more aesthetically consistent is not something that I feel makes the game stronger. In fact, I think it'd make the game more aggravating and hence, weaker.


My issue with the post you quoted has nothing to do with "should it be possible for Cassandra to smash the gate" and everything to do with "should the gate explode into splinters."

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:10 .

[David Gaider]

Um, yeah.

This was just to demonstrate the shield bash. Why someone would jump to the conclusion that this wouldn't require something extraordinary on Cassandra's part (a special leveled-up ability, a magical shield, etc.), some kind of preparation on the Inquisition's part, or that just because Cassandra can do this that other characters/classes might not have similar abilities... I'm not really sure.

Relax, people. Considering all the abilities that various characters have (and have had throughout the DA games) this shouldn't be where all verisimilitude breaks down for you. She's strong, and this need neither be the final say in how the ability is used or what it looks like (considering the pre-alpha state). So offer feedback on that front, please do, but if the assertion is that Cassandra shouldn't be able to break down doors period... well the only response to that is "meh".

Modifié par David Gaider, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:12 .

[Nerevar-as]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Actually, the elaboration part was about the dangers to players, sorry for being vague.

They are right in the post....

"If you'd prefer, we could alter the scene so that it's merely a dented gate that has a spot to get through that trips up the AI followers when pathfinding and a host of other potential issues."


The gate is "smashed into pieces" because it removes the gate. The barrier has already been bypassed. Forcing us to make it appear as a smaller pathfinding (read: aggravating) bottleneck because it appears more aesthetically consistent is not something that I feel makes the game stronger. In fact, I think it'd make the game more aggravating and hence, weaker.


My issue with the post you quoted has nothing to do with "should it be possible for Cassandra to smash the gate" and everything to do with "should the gate explode into splinters."

OK, clear now.

Talking about pathfinding, please be careful with boss fights. Legacy DLC is the only game I´ve given up out of frustation since the 8 bit times.

[Shadow Fox]

David Gaider wrote...

Um, yeah.

This was just to demonstrate the shield bash. Why someone would jump to the conclusion that this wouldn't require something extraordinary on Cassandra's part (a special leveled-up ability, a magical shield, etc.), some kind of preparation on the Inquisition's part, or that just because Cassandra can do this that other characters/classes might not have similar abilities... I'm not really sure.

Relax, people. Considering all the abilities that various characters have (and have had throughout the DA games) this shouldn't be where all verisimilitude breaks down for you. She's strong, and this need neither be the final say in how the ability is used or what it looks like (considering the pre-alpha state). So offer feedback on that front, please do, but if the assertion is that Cassandra shouldn't be able to break down doors period... well the only response to that is "meh".

Please say I can break down doors myself.I wanna see my enemies wet themselves in fear of my badassitude.:devil:

[KC_Prototype]

She has a mutation in her DNA that gives her super strength.

[Nerevar-as]

If every other character can break doors, nobody above mook level will be impressed. That´s the problem with the "awesome", abuse it and nothing is.

[TurretSyndrome]

Well, now Rogues got lockpicking, Warriors door bashing, but what about us poor Mages huh?

[Nerevar-as]

Unlock spell?

[MisterJB]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Well, now Rogues got lockpicking, Warriors door bashing, but what about us poor Mages huh?

Wasn't it confirmed that mages would have the ability to form paths to reach formerly innacessible areas?

Modifié par MisterJB, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:46 .

[Olivier_dehFanboy]

 Here it just looks you took the easy and silly way, thinking it looked badass.

lol this is ridiculous. how audacious do you have to be to speak as if the game is being made only for you? 

Ur total lack of respect makes me feel like my opinion is more valid than yours, and i say it doesn't look silly and bioware should keep it.

[Shadow Fox]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Well, now Rogues got lockpicking, Warriors door bashing, but what about us poor Mages huh?

Stone Fist!B)Or melt the lock.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Nerevar-as wrote...

If every other character can break doors, nobody above mook level will be impressed. That´s the problem with the "awesome", abuse it and nothing is.

i recall a leaked image suggesting that there were exploration specific skill trees. what if this kind of environmental/obstacle smashing application of shield bash is on this tree, and requires many ability points to unlock? points that could otherwise go towards combat abilities or other useful things. meaning that making every character able to do this very specific skill would reduce their potential effectiveness elsewhere. which is not awesome.

I dont know why people assume there is no tradeoff or cost for an extreme ability like this

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:49 .

[Shadow Fox]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

If every other character can break doors, nobody above mook level will be impressed. That´s the problem with the "awesome", abuse it and nothing is.

i recall a leaked image suggesting that there were exploration specific skill trees. what if this kind of environmental/obstacle smashing application of shield bash is on this tree, and requires many ability points to unlock? points that could otherwise go towards combat abilities or other useful things. meaning that making every character able to do this very specific skill would reduce their potential effectiveness elsewhere. which is not awesome.

I dont know why people assume there is no tradeoff or cost for an extreme ability like this

This is BSN bro.

[Zu Long]

Before any of you come and say "it's fantasy so it doesn't matter", I
say it DOES matter because while the game is fantasy, it also has to be
believable.

Spells that create ice and lightning from nothing/fire breathing dragons/armies fueled by dark, foul magic = BELIEVABLE.

Someone knocks down a rusty iron gate = PANIC.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Icy Magebane]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Well, now Rogues got lockpicking, Warriors door bashing, but what about us poor Mages huh?

I would really prefer it if every class could simply learn the lockpick skill.  I've never liked the assumption that only rogues would be interested enough to learn how to do this.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:51 .

[Shadow Fox]

Zu Long wrote...

Before any of you come and say "it's fantasy so it doesn't matter", I
say it DOES matter because while the game is fantasy, it also has to be
believable.

Spells that create ice and lightning from nothing/fire breathing dragons/armies fueled by dark, foul magic = BELIEVABLE.

Someone knocks down a rusty iron gate = PANIC.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

That's BSN for you only mages are allowed to break physics.

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


In a time capped demo, a large part of the intent is to simply show the types of things that players can do in a game.

And that's precisely what gets me worried about this.  It's not about the specifics.  One instance of a castle gate being smashed isn't a major problem in the scale of things.  But if this is where Warrior abilities are going to be pitched at generally, then that is liable to affect my enjoyment of the game to at least some degree.

And in reply to Mr Gaider, it being a levelled ability wouldn't make it OK to me.  Not unless it was a magical specialisation, anyway.  And I don't think anyone was intending to suggest that bashing down any doors ever was a problem

[TurretSyndrome]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
]Stone Fist!B)Or melt the lock.

Stone Fist the gate, Flame Blast the gate and last but the best; Blood Control guard to open the gate.  

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 13 novembre 2013 - 11:58 .

[Shadow Fox]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
]Stone Fist!B)Or melt the lock.

Stone Fist the gate, Flame Blast the gate and last but the best; Blood Control guard to open the gate.  

Muwhahaha!

[Fetunche]

If you don't like an ability, don't use it, those of us who don't care about trifling details and want to enjoy a fun fantasy game can.

[Mecha Elf]

Cuz it's a video game.... And if you have a problem with bashing down gates, use the other entrance or use magic duh... It's not that hard to avoid bashing down gates since it is OPTIONAL.