132 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

How'd you feel about the Cylon attack on BSG? Adama tell the crew they're at war as soon as he knows a Cylon attack is in progress; he doesn't find out about fleet losses or Caprica City being destroyed until later.

Pearl Harbor?

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 novembre 2013 - 04:13 .

[MattFini]

The reason it's hard to explain WHY the ending sucks is because it sucks on so many levels.

It's anticlimactic and unsatisfying from a narrative standpoint. Shepard's victory is passive in that he reaches the Catalyst, listens to what he has to say and makes a choice. There's no sense of victory in any of it because of the way it's written.

That makes it unsatisfying.

Then, of course, comes the ending debate, which is a whole other can of worms. While I like Destroy fine for the end result, I still don't think the game hands us final victory in a way that FEELS satisfying. It's just there.

[Reorte]

MattFini wrote...

The reason it's hard to explain WHY the ending sucks is because it sucks on so many levels.

It's anticlimactic and unsatisfying from a narrative standpoint. Shepard's victory is passive in that he reaches the Catalyst, listens to what he has to say and makes a choice. There's no sense of victory in any of it because of the way it's written.

That makes it unsatisfying.

Then, of course, comes the ending debate, which is a whole other can of worms. While I like Destroy fine for the end result, I still don't think the game hands us final victory in a way that FEELS satisfying. It's just there.

It's biggest failure was not even managing to be mediocre enough at best so that I can go "Oh well" at it and want to go back and play the rest, like I would if it was just dull and lacklustre.

[KaiserShep]

Linkenski wrote...
James: "This is Loco! What do you think we're gonna find in there?"
Shepard. "I don't know... but if it helps us win this war..."

Again... this is literally minutes after you left earth. You still have only a faint idea of what the scope of the Reaper attacks have been. How fast are they making their assaults, are they attacking beyond the Sol system? etc.

An entire city is set aflame and overrun with monsters within minutes, the reapers are incinerating everything in sight, and the fleets in orbit are reduced to debris, which can clearly be seen from the Normandy as it escapes. It's also hard to miss the fact that the sky is literally raining fire from space as the reapers invade. Whether or not the reapers even touched the rest of the galaxy yet is irrelevant. You know, at the very least, that the scope involves the entirety of planet Earth. Use of the word war here is correct.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 novembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[SwobyJ]

TheMyron wrote...

@SwobyJ: It wasn't the last ten minutes that hurt me the most, but the first ten. Within the first ten minutes of playing ME3, I knew there was something wrong; In ME1 and ME2 for example, Shepard's first spoken words are produced by the dialogue wheel, but in ME3 he started talking and talking and talking, and I, the player, the one who is supposed to be in charge of the character here, haven't made a single decision yet.

Hence, what I call a "character hijacking" was pulled off.

Interesting. Yeah.

[TheMyron]

SwobyJ wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

@SwobyJ: It wasn't the last ten minutes that hurt me the most, but the first ten. Within the first ten minutes of playing ME3, I knew there was something wrong; In ME1 and ME2 for example, Shepard's first spoken words are produced by the dialogue wheel, but in ME3 he started talking and talking and talking, and I, the player, the one who is supposed to be in charge of the character here, haven't made a single decision yet.

Hence, what I call a "character hijacking" was pulled off.

Interesting. Yeah.

And throughout the game, Shepard, the person is supposed to have all the answers, is the one asking all the questions instead. Isn't Hackett the one who is supposed to be asking?

[TheMyron]

"The Citadel? The fight is here." Is this really coming from Shepard's mouth?!!!

The Ultra-renegade Shepard, the most cold-blooded Hero in the history of Heroes, the person responsible for a countless number of unnecessary deaths and murders, suddenly has his/her heart cut out at the sight of some stupid looking kid.

Verily, verily, I say onto you, the character hijacking is far more painful than the ending.

Modifié par TheMyron, 14 novembre 2013 - 11:36 .

[SwobyJ]

TheMyron wrote...

"The Citadel? The fight is here." Is this really coming from Shepard's mouth?!!!

The Ultra-renegade Shepard, the most cold-blooded Hero in the history of Heroes, the person responsible for a countless number of unnecessary deaths and murders, suddenly has his/her heart cut out at the sight of some stupid looking kid.

Verily, verily, I say onto you, the character hijacking is far more painful than the ending.

I like to think there is a lore reason for that beyond 'make the audience painfully emotional!'.

Only time... 2014-2015 in particular, will show if I'm right. I know I could be entirely wrong.

I don't mind character hijacking if there is a purpose and it doesn't signify a trend in a series.

[TheMyron]

I wanted my Shepard to "blow up the balloon" that said "I told you so" to many people, but he says it only once to the Turian Councilor only in a very lame way.

@SwobyJ: The "Mommy loves you very much" message left behind by the Quarian woman left me in me in tears, but Shepard shows zero emotion, I believe its because as an Role-playing Game, it is up to the Player, not the game character, to express emotion.

The nightmare scenes for example, should either be non-existent; as player head-canon only, or be reflective of Shepard's choices, like watching his/her choice of LI getting burned up instead of the kid.

[SwobyJ]

Nevermind.

[Linkenski]

KaiserShep wrote...

Linkenski wrote...
James: "This is Loco! What do you think we're gonna find in there?"
Shepard. "I don't know... but if it helps us win this war..."

Again... this is literally minutes after you left earth. You still have only a faint idea of what the scope of the Reaper attacks have been. How fast are they making their assaults, are they attacking beyond the Sol system? etc.

An entire city is set aflame and overrun with monsters within minutes, the reapers are incinerating everything in sight, and the fleets in orbit are reduced to debris, which can clearly be seen from the Normandy as it escapes. It's also hard to miss the fact that the sky is literally raining fire from space as the reapers invade. Whether or not the reapers even touched the rest of the galaxy yet is irrelevant. You know, at the very least, that the scope involves the entirety of planet Earth. Use of the word war here is correct.

I'm probably just way too picky then... but it's really just... "ugh!" everytime they say it. It just seems forced to me for some reason.

[TheMyron]

Character Hijacking #2: Who is the main badguy, Harbinger, or TIM? Followed of course, by Starbrat...

[ShadowLordXII]

2 groups wouldn't really be accurate considering all of the objective/subjective flaws of the ending, I'd put the feelings of anti-enders (including myself) into 4 groups:

1. The tone and mood of the endings were too sad and depressing with no option for a definite happy ending or even a bittersweet ending with more emphasis on sweet than bitter.

2. The endings are a thematic betrayal of the core premise of the trilogy and the only option that isn't a betrayal causes rocks to fall and everyone to die.

3. Through false advertisement and "artistic integrity", BW clearly messed up and their denial is only making things worst.

4. Everything after the IM confrontation causes the entire plot to collapse in on itself because it breaks narrative cohesion and cannot be reconciled with previous games without a massive handwave or a last minute backstory retcon.

[Iakus]

Reorte wrote...

It's biggest failure was not even managing to be mediocre enough at best so that I can go "Oh well" at it and want to go back and play the rest, like I would if it was just dull and lacklustre.

Even Dragon Age 2 managed that much for me.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I dunno about anyone else but I was unhappy with the quality of writing for the entire overarching plot of ME3 and I see the ending as a result of that bad writing.

[ShadowLordXII]

DinoSteve wrote...

I dunno about anyone else but I was unhappy with the quality of writing for the entire overarching plot of ME3 and I see the ending as a result of that bad writing.

Stuff like the Crucible and the beacon on Thessia? I'll admit, those two are great for fridge-logic fuel.

[Rasofe]

I think the distinction of the two camps was originally people who said the game's ending felt wrong, and those who said it was logically wrong.

[74 Wrex]

l didn't like how they made the endings very badly confusing but the Extended Cut fixed that
The main reason l hate the endings is because 9 times out of 10 Shepard dies and the only ending Shepard lives was left ambigous with only a breath scene when they could've done more because eventually someone would find Shepard but Bioware is too lazy to add a little more to the ending

[Volc19]

While the EC was an improvement, it really isn't hard to improve on what was given to us to begin with. I feel like a classroom of fourth graders in association with a group of monkeys in a room full of typewriters and mass effect concept art could have written a DLC that improved on that ending.

Though I still feel like the endings are absolutely terrible, the EC did patch them up to the point where I can see the ending as an actual piece of a narrative, adhering to actual plot points and loosely working in with the general rules of basic storytelling. And that is a lot better than what we got at first.

[Volc19]

DinoSteve wrote...

I dunno about anyone else but I was unhappy with the quality of writing for the entire overarching plot of ME3 and I see the ending as a result of that bad writing.

Well yeah, ME3 was obviously the weakest link in the trilogy, and it is the weakest by far, but the ending was so far beneath even the already-low quality of ME3.

[KaiserShep]

I always felt that ME3 was stronger than ME2 with regards to its overarching plot. Maligned as it may be, it's more cohesive overall, particularly after its ending revision, than the previous chapter. ME2 was lots of fun, but the storytelling element of the game gets sidetracked quite a lot more. I'd rank the quality of the actual narrative as ME1 > ME3 > ME2.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 24 novembre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Ieldra]

Count me among those who found the character hijacking the most annoying aspect of ME3. The ending has serious problems even after the EC, but I can live with it.

All in all, my opinion about the endings can't be reduced to one sentence. See thispost for my review of the final mission and my summary of my experience with ME3.

@KaiserShep:
ME3 beats ME2 in the story design itself, but the storytelling quality - in narrative consistency and characterization - is significantly behind the other two games.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 novembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[David7204]

You know Ieldra, Miranda's wistfulness towards normality was very, very clear in ME 2. It's nothing new in ME 3. It makes perfect sense as well.

Modifié par David7204, 24 novembre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Ieldra]

David7204 wrote...
You know Ieldra, Miranda's wistfulness towards normality was very, very clear in ME 2. It's nothing new in ME 3. It makes perfect sense as well.

My previous post was not about Miranda but about the game as a whole. As for her story arc, there are two aspects here: the fact that other, more important story hooks were screaming for attention and the writers used Oriana instead, which I count as a storytelling crime and an objective flaw in the context of ME3's scenario, and the "normal life" theme, about which I never said that it didn't make any sense. It was one possible way to go with her characterization. I just hated it because it destroyed what I liked in Miranda most, and I hated the thematic message behind it even more.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 novembre 2013 - 10:26 .

[David7204]

Well, you can be content in knowing she doesn't really believe it. In fact, she disdains 'normality' quite as much as you and I do. Or even more. You can consider it as a more subtle theme - honesty, as I do, instead of the one on the surface.

As for Miranda working with Cerberus...I've heard all the ideas. None have remotely impressed me. I've got something much better. Entire third arc, focused on recruiting the pirates and criminals of the Terminus Systems, with Miranda as a central character.

Modifié par David7204, 24 novembre 2013 - 10:31 .