27 réponses à ce sujet

[Jessica Merizan]

Hi Everyone,

Jessica here! You might have seen the following message pop up today: 
Based on the great feedback that we’ve received from
you, the BSN community, we are anxious to roll up our sleeves, get to work, and
level up your experience! As part of this process, you may notice some changes
over the next few weeks as we remove, change or add features to the site –
starting with some existing BSN features (Polls, Albums, Projects and Blogs)
moving to Read-Only as of November 19th 2013, and ultimately phased out of the
site. This is all being done with the next stage of BSN in
mind. We apologize for any inconvenience and will continue to keep you updated.
We encourage you to take this time to back up or save any important data or
conversations you'd like to preserve.

If you've heard me talk at events or know anything about me, you know that my background is in Anthropology. I'm passionate about people. The changes that we have been slowly making over the past year on this site and the ones we will continue to make may seem random/out of context, but they are working in tandem to create an overall positive change in our online space. That doesn't always mean I want you to agree with each other or us - I am thrilled with constructive debate - but we walk away on good terms when the discussion is over. We are also working to update and modernize our space to make the (let me show you my new web dev word knowledge!) "user experience" friendlier and easier to navigate.

The changes we're making now are largely to help us focus in on what I think makes the BSN amazing at its core: intelligent, curious and passionate game content discussion. These are where the vast majority of our fans are spending their time and this is where we will be dedicating more resources and moderation. I want to aid your conversations around multiplayer strategy, walkthroughs, customization builds, and how to unlock that dialogue you've been trying to have with a certain character. We also are interested in your philosophical discussions on how the themes and metaphors in our games speak to you. The features we are making Read Only account for a very low level of activity of our fans' total time spent on BSN. I wouldn't phase out these aspects of the site if I didn't believe there are external spaces that do a better job of providing those services, so I encourage those of you who do to please back up your data and transfer over to another site/server. 

Again, this is just one step in a multiphase process to make our online space closer to what it is when it's at its best -- a true community (unfortunately that word gets tossed around a lot, losing most of its real meaning in my opinion) of individuals who come together to discuss a common passion in a safe, inclusive and supportive environment. Think of it as my challenge to bring the feeling of a convention to our corner of the web.

Feel free to leave any questions, comments, or ideas you have for the future here. I just ask that you keep your conversations around these changes to this thread so as to not disrupt the other sections of the site. 

Thanks!  <3

EDIT: We have determined Projects will NOT be set to Read Only and are to continue to remain active.

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 19 novembre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Jessica Merizan]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Hi Jessica,

Would this include groups to be phased out as well?

Hi Fast Jimmy! We're in the process of developing better systems for groups but we will continue to support them as a feature (unless something crazy happens like the Tank Girl universe becomes a reality and we no longer use the internet because we're fighting over water as a resource...) But yeah, unless something unforseeable happens, my plan is for groups to stay in place, and eventually have better versions. 

[Jessica Merizan]

scyphozoa wrote...

Hi Jessica, I just want to ask that you please keep the projects sections up and open. As others have said, there are mods and projects that are hosted here, and only here. Their authors and creators have gone inactive long ago, but their DAO or their ME2 mods are still in use today.

I think back to the previous forums, before the BSN, there used to be a great forum for Jade Empire, and that forum was home to many JE mods, which are no longer available anywhere on the internet. I would ask that you please reconsider removing projects, as it is one of the most valuable functions of the current BSN, and would be removing a lot of people's hard work and dedication to their favorite Bioware games. It would also be a disservice to the BSN and Bioware community if these projects and mods are no longer available.

You will still be able to download the files Just not create new files. Hope that clears things up!

[Jessica Merizan]

greengoron89 wrote...

Can I assume you intend to replace these features with something more conducive to game content discussion and feedback, or are you simply removing these features and shifting the focus to the forum only?

Yes, "game content discussion" is a very purposeful choice of words on my part (and no, I'm a writer and academic by training not a PR spin doctor LOL). 

I do not want to police or force people to use our albums to only post about our games. Same with our blogs. That would make this site a very negative place and it would shift our moderation away from keeping people safe and conversations on topic. 

We are also working on a better system for polls and on our end we're already using surveymonkey to conduct polls (you might remember we did a DragonAge poll on gameplay a few weeks back). I also think that the way polls are used on BSN right now is not very scientific or representative. So we'll make polls more fun and less masked with a feeling of authority. 

So yes, these moves are around focusing the site back toward game content discussion and away from making the site a catch all. We are working on ways to bring visual elements to better support celebrate fan fiction, art, cosplay etc but that's further down the road. 

And you will still be able to download projects, just not create new ones.

[Jessica Merizan]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Jessica, I realize you guys have a vision in mind and we're just not seeing it. Agree with LPPrince and others who have said it would probably be easier to be optimistic if we could see the payoff and not just what we're losing.

I do have to say, though, that I'm extra confused about projects being removed. Isn't Bioware always saying that they love and appreciate the modding community?

This seems to speak volumes to the reverse.

I also have to ask about this: "We encourage you to take this time to back up or save any important data or conversations you'd like to preserve."
..... does that apply to any pm's we've received that we'd like to keep too?

Thanks for your time. I imagine this is keeping you pretty busy.

Hi brushyourteeth (omigosh that gave me tingles - I have teeth anxiety!)

Thank you for your polite comment. I'll endeavor to respond as best I can! 

I DO care so much about the modding community and we still want to support them. You will be able to download all the files that are Read Only, we will just not be hosting new files. We think there are much better sites for file hosting such as nexusmods.com. I have zero plans end my love for the machinima and modding community and I know I speak for a lot of devs (many of whom came from that group before working at BW) when I say that. Although some of our newer games have engines are not owned by us so we cannot support modding, we love seeing what the community does with the mods we do support. 

And for any other feature, we would definitely give plenty of notice for anything we thought you should back up. We are investigating and developing things for the site currently, and while we are looking into better management for PMs to give users more control, I don't think you need to back up right now - unless you personally want to

Thanks again!

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 13 novembre 2013 - 07:46 .

[Jessica Merizan]

greengoron89 wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Can I assume you intend to replace these features with something more conducive to game content discussion and feedback, or are you simply removing these features and shifting the focus to the forum only?

Yes, "game content discussion" is a very purposeful choice of words on my part (and no, I'm a writer and academic by training not a PR spin doctor LOL). 

I do not want to police or force people to use our albums to only post about our games. Same with our blogs. That would make this site a very negative place and it would shift our moderation away from keeping people safe and conversations on topic. 

We are also working on a better system for polls and on our end we're already using surveymonkey to conduct polls (you might remember we did a DragonAge poll on gameplay a few weeks back). I also think that the way polls are used on BSN right now is not very scientific or representative. So we'll make polls more fun and less masked with a feeling of authority. 

So yes, these moves are around focusing the site back toward game content discussion and away from making the site a catch all. We are working on ways to bring visual elements to better support celebrate fan fiction, art, cosplay etc but that's further down the road. 

And you will still be able to download projects, just not create new ones.

I do not believe you are spin doctoring, I was just curious as to your plans beyond phasing out polls, albums, etc. and wished for you to elaborate, which you have graciously done so. Thank you.

Sorry, that was rude of me not to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. I got accused of a lot of things last year. I appreciate everyone being open to the idea that I'm being as honest as I can without revealing future things that may change or aren't approved. For the most part, this is coming from my vision for our community based on managing it for 2.5 years (and being a member of it for 5+ years before that), listening to hundreds of thousands of fans' feedback, the needs of our studio, the ideas/expertise of my team working on this project who has lived on BSN since its inception, and not some high order or faceless corporation. 

SO actually. If you want to be mad at someone, that person or entity is me. 

[Jessica Merizan]

Kallianira wrote...

And we *are* mad at you Jessica!

That's ok and I don't want to dimish your feelings. No one should tell you that you aren't allowed to be mad. I just want you to know that this is coming from a person and not from a vague construct or faceless blob.

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 13 novembre 2013 - 08:05 .

[Jessica Merizan]

Kallianira wrote...

Actually that is even more scary that only one person can turn the whole side upside down and remove the "social" from Bioware Social Network! 

I think all the reactions on this thread should make clear that your plans won't "improve customer experience" but reduce it massively.

Like I said, this is based on a team working toward the goals of the community and the studio. While I am the person you should be mad at, it would be hubris for me to state that I have the power to solely turn the site upside down on my whim

I don't think its fair to make a blanket statement that the reaction of this thread are representative of the entirety of the fanbase or that it's clear this is the wrong direction. While I completely sympathize these are important features for you, it is a very very small percentage of users who are still actively using them and it largely unrelated to BioWare games which I think removes the focus from future plans for the site. Change is almost never comfortable but this was not a decision that was made lightly.

[Jessica Merizan]

General Slotts wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Oh noes Jessica, you can't do this! If you change my blog on how to upload custom avatars to read only, I'll fade into obscurity! Where will my sense of self worth come from, that blog was all I had! QQ

Don't worry I'll continue to spread the word, of the legend that was bobobo. 

Sorry I'm super confused. If it's read only, can't people still read and reference that blog? 

[Allan Schumacher]

MegaIllusiveMan wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

 then comments on the feed where removed and only added back after a outcry.

Actually, I heard from the devs that that was a Forum Bug...

Yes.  I can confirm since I followed up on it when it happened (though I believe it was noted internally long before I got around to it)

[Jessica Merizan]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

I'm sad that these features are being removed. I think that you come across as a lovely person, Jessica, so I want to believe that you have something better in mind for the future. On balance, I think that it would have made some people feel better about this announcement if you had mentioned some specific things that you intend to add at the same time as taking other things away.

i like how this keeps coming up, and there's only silence on the other end.

I really really want to shout from the rooftops what we're planning and show you the beautiful mock ups and prototypes and seriously crazy web development things I've learned over the past year that I just found out today have shifted my personality type from an ESFP to an ENTP. Crazy! But the problem is that until things are 100% locked, they can change (which sounds redundant). So we really can't say anything until it's locked in. This applies for any feature in a game or any announcement we make. We can't talk about it until we're ready. I don't ask that you trust that what we're doing is going to be good. Show, don't tell. If you choose to stick around when we reveal those things, I will let you be the judge of it.

Unrelated. I've never been a fan of distracting bad news with shiny things. 

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 13 novembre 2013 - 10:36 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I think there are no BW employees who think in terms of community building.

Well, I couldn't help but take this personally. Apologies Jessica for a minor derailment, but I did have some observations about some of the issues that I, personally, do have with the social aspects of the site (which are very poor compared to a lot of other social aspects).

I currently have 153 friends on this site, and this is after a recent culling of some (primarily because of content that left me frustrated on my news feed). In most cases, invitations came to me and I tended to accept without much restriction.  In some cases, I actually put forward the request myself because I enjoyed series of interactions I had with a fan. And despite initial accusations that I was a PR shill or whatnot in the wake of ME3's ending, I tried to continue to interact with fans.

But I also found myself in awkward situations, such as when I would go to my news feed to see what a BSN friend has to say in a particular topic, only to find that that person is basically tearing into BioWare for being a bunch of liars regarding a particular topic and effectively calling some of my colleagues (and real life friends) incompetent. Which is certainly not something I want to to really associate myself with, so then I remove friends. Now it's evidently a drama thing, because I would receive PMs going "Hey I noticed you removed me from your friends" with follow ups (because I didn't immediately reply because I tended to get a LOT of PMs) with various degrees of bizarre responses because I didn't respond within some imagined time frame that was considered acceptable.  That if it didn't just end up on my news feed (or even just a friend's profile, because I did click on them...) and I saw some public discourse and drama because Allan removed someone from his friends list.

Or when I do think someone is being unfair, and I ban that person (typically a 1-5 day temporary ban). Though we have some mutual BSN friends and right on my news feed is a post among a common group of friends with laughing comments effectively celebrating the ban, or worse insinuations that I am unfair or unreasonable in enforcing the rules and have favourites because -clearly- I don't ban the actual problem people.


But to say that there are no BW employees who think in terms of community building is certainly a sad thing for me to read, and it certainly makes my attempts to try to interact with people feel like they've certainly been for naught. My entire reason for posting started simply to provide an outlet for people that were mad at ME3, and in time I eventually shifted over to talk more with the Dragon Age groups because that's the project that I actually work on.

I certainly wouldn't say I've been infallible. I pretty much just naively jumped in with little preparation aside from a "Remain professional" that was shared with me in late 2009 in preparation for DAO's release. So yeah, I've definitely taken some things the wrong way when I probably shouldn't have. I've reconciled with some people that I initially snarked at (with varying degrees of longevity), and openly had some humble pie on various topics that were heated but ultimately I was still very new to trying to take part in because I was ignorant to a lot of perspectives.


100% of the time I spend on this forum is completely volunteer and completely of my own volition. And to read that anything that results in less effort is preferable is exactly the type of sword that pierces right through my heart. My brain isn't immune to latching onto things in the worst possible way, and it's really hard to not see something like that and think "I guess I did nothing but waste my time for the last 20 months."

But I guess I was trying to be more proactive in "policing the forums" (even after external moderating teams were brought in so that people like myself and Gaider and Jepler wouldn't need to act as mods.... mostly because I felt a dissonance to turn a blind eye to what I felt was obvious mean spirited posting) so I fit under that umbrella. Doubly conflicting, however, since others in this thread have stated that all would be well if only were were more active in our policing and hired more moderators.


I have more I'd like to say about the topic and discussion in general, though I'll defer somewhat to Jessica as I have no idea what her actual plans are for where she'd like the forums to move to, but at this point it's 3:30 in the morning and I should probably just go to bed. So good night.

Allan

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:37 .

[Jesse Reid]

Sanunes wrote...
I personally was hoping the BSN was going to be completely rebuilt from the ground up and at that time everything would be just locked down, just like when they moved to the BSN in 2009.

Who said that isn't what we're doing?

[Justin Edmond]

Jesse Reid wrote...

Sanunes wrote...
I personally was hoping the BSN was going to be completely rebuilt from the ground up and at that time everything would be just locked down, just like when they moved to the BSN in 2009.

Who said that isn't what we're doing?

But even you, Jesse Reid, wouldn't be able to maintain all of BSN and develop a new site at the same time... How will this possibly work?

[Jesse Reid]

JUSTIN EDMOND wrote...
But even you, Jesse Reid, wouldn't be able to maintain all of BSN and develop a new site at the same time... How will this possibly work?

http://en.wikipedia....in_Magic_(song)

[Jesse Reid]

Once the project section goes read only is there any reason why a group couldn't be used to showcase the project and link to the files?

Also, has anyone asked Nexus Mods if they would be willing to add a category for Mass Effect? And if so what was their response?

[Jesse Reid]

We don't have a date for when the soon to be "read only" content would be deleted or even if it would ever be deleted. Giving a concrete date for when what we'll call "legacy" content, for lack of a better word, is never an easy thing to do. For example we still have a Mass Effect 1 marketing site (http://masseffect.bioware.com/me1/) but older titles like Sonic or KOTOR no longer exist.

I would hope that we can provide ample warning time for you to back up content that was going to be deleted but be assured the blog, album, poll, and project content is not going to be deleted on Tuesday.

[Jesse Reid]

Tarot I think you read into my post a little much. I said that BioWare has had to remove legacy content in the past and that there was no guarantee the BSN content will live on forever.

What I'm saying is that no one can say any one piece of content will live on forever. But what we can try to do is provide everyone enough time to backup or download a copy.

Ottemis, I am aware of the amount of user-generated content and the importance of keeping it around. It won't be my decision if/when the content gets deleted but you should know there are people here who would push for it to stay around as long as possible.

[Jesse Reid]

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

Modifié par Jesse Reid, 16 novembre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Jessica Merizan]

Jesse Reid wrote...

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

No no. We do not want to charge for fan art (cosplay, modding, fiction, art, etc). It's just not ethically right. 

Jesse and I have been keeping an eye on the thread and we will look into any ways we can keep projects active based on your concerns about lack of viable alternatives. Thanks for voicing your feedback in a constructive manner guys. I know it's frustrating, but we appreciate it. 

And for those asking, no - we don’t have any plans to remove the DA Toolset Wiki..

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 16 novembre 2013 - 03:05 .

[Jessica Merizan]

meonlyred wrote...

@Jessica and Jesse,
Thank you so much for responding to our concerns, they were weighing heavily on us.

I understand wanting to do an overhaul on the site. It truly is needed. I hope a solution can be reached where so much of your fan's content won't be gone forever.

I'm glad to hear it. While I don't know that what I have in my head for the future will be what every single here person wants (oh gosh I know it won't!), Jesse and I are both very excited for the possibilities ahead - I mean, we're online at 7/8PM respectively on a Friday night talking about it. :happy:

This is something I spend a lot of time on so every single decision has a lot of weight. And when there's a reason, we are more than happy to re-evaluate. 

I hope you all have a wonderful weekend! 

[Allan Schumacher]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Then where are the people supporting it? I've seen no one who had more than mild contentment with the changes here throughout this entire thread. 

I don't share my PM history publicly.


PRECURSORY CLARIFICATION: I don't know where Jessica receives all of her information to fuel this request.

What I am seeing, however, is stuff like this:

My personal opinion is, where are these supposed people who support the removal of these features?

If you're looking for opinions that say "Please remove all of these" you probably won't find any.  However, if they give a list of grievances for what they dislike about the BSN (or, in the case of some that definitely won't be posting here because they feel chased away by the BSN - such feedback would be received in other places and certainly less publicly), it IS possible that upon further investigation by Jessica and her team that these complaints find themselves manifesting a lot in a certain way and in certain locations.

My earlier post briefly hinted at some aspects of the social aspects of the site that make me feel very uncomfortable and how they can introduce additional, and unnecessary, drama into a foray into the newsfeed.


Note, for my 2 cents, I have no beef with an off topic forum either.  Some stuff just ends up straying and it's a useful place for some discussions to happen.  Every game forum I have been a part of still has one, as well as a general gaming section as well.

[Allan Schumacher]

Inquisitor Recon wrote...

People feel "chased away" by albums, polls, and projects?

Or they help manifest bad things and are non-trivial to fix for reasons beyond me?  This probably applies less to projects, however.

I
find the notion that this stuff is being removed because a few people
complained (vs the bulk who like it or don't care) more offensive than
it being just a matter of budget and time. If these complaints were the
issue wouldn't solutions like improving the feed activity filter make
more sense than cutting features entirely?

NOTE: Speculation parts because I don't work with the online team
It'd depend on how much effort it'd take to fix it.  It doesn't take much to see that a lot of the social features of the web site are subpar, especially compares to a lot of other social sites.

But that starts to become a rabbit hole, especially when looking at opportunity costs for applying manpower (i.e. how much should it compete with the effort being put into, the Keep for Dragon Age, for example?).  Never mind if there may be infrastructural issues that I'm oblivious to as well.


For example, as a programmer I once worked on the ScriptEase project through the University of Alberta.  While we were able to do the things that the grad students needed to do for their research, eventually (due to a rotation of interns and whatnot, myself included)  it was concluded that it'd be ideal to just rebuild it from the ground up.  (Clarification: No, I'm not saying the BSN is going to get rebuilt from the ground up...)

[Allan Schumacher]

I always found the PM harassment weird since I was under the impression that you could simply block the user which would block any incoming PMs. In fact, I thought that was basically the only thing the block feature did. If people were using multiple user profiles to do this then, then yeah. That's more understandable.

Alt account circumvention to blocking was a huge issue not too long ago.

[Allan Schumacher]

If anything is chasing people away its the toxicity brought on by
inconsistent moderation and incredibly hostile forum members who never
seem to get more than a slap on the wrist.

I've been getting an awful lot of this lately.

Here's the problem.  Said poster(s) that you're concerned about, I may not interact with as much (based on thread topics) and when I do, I see someone that more frequently does NOT take the bait compared to the groups of individuals that literally troll said person(s) in an attempt to get a rise out of the poster(s).

Here's a fact: virtually every time I ban someone I get some sob story about how I'm obviously not banning those other posters, when the reality is you're letting yourself get SO irate in your crusade against said poster that you basically walk around with "Please ban me because I'm on a mission and think I'm sneaky about it."  When frequently many friends jump into the thread to try to illustrate how evil said poster(s) are being, you end up actually coming across like the bullies yourself AND there's a plethora of opportunities to ban a SINGLE poster when 5+ people are railing on a thread vs the single target you're targeting.

And I don't make public alerts when moderating people, so you're unlikely to hear about "Person you hate" being moderated, while you're overly exposed to "person you like" getting moderated because it becomes a status update and at times even celebrated.

Chashan wrote...

And introducing a toggle for individual users bothered this way to block PMs by anyone who is not a mutual friend of theirs wouldn't have been the more reasonable step here?

No need to answer in detail, Mr Schumacher, you did point out that you are not with the maintenance-crew for the site.

If it was easy to make that change, it would've probably been done.  How complicated said change is, however, would depend on the underlying infrastructure (which isn't something I'm familiar with, like UBB or something like that).

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 19 novembre 2013 - 09:13 .