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BSN Read Only Changes


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#426
frustratemyself

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Jessica Merizan wrote...

I really really want to shout from the rooftops what we're planning and show you the beautiful mock ups and prototypes and seriously crazy web development things I've learned over the past year that I just found out today have shifted my personality type from an ESFP to an ENTP. Crazy! But the problem is that until things are 100% locked, they can change (which sounds redundant). So we really can't say anything until it's locked in. This applies for any feature in a game or any announcement we make. We can't talk about it until we're ready...



I find this a very interesting pespective to take Jessica.

I can relate this back to my own work which is in a university student administration area. For the students I deal with there major changes happening to their degrees and it will directly affect most of our current students.
As part of that we had to formulate a communication plan to keep students informed of changes that will go ahead before we actually started making any direct changes to their degrees. 

My point with this analogy is that when making major changes to a service/product etc that will greatly effect your clients/community you communicate with them about it before the changes go ahead. You don't make major changes and then add a pop-up to your website. Doing that just generates a high level of anxiety from your clients/community and an unnecessary amount of work in additional enquiries and negative contacts that you may not have had to deal with if you had taken the time to communicate clearly. 

People react more positively to change if you communicate with them and keep them informed. Not doing so is rather poor form on your client service.

#427
AutumnWitch

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[quote]frustratemyself wrote...

[quote]Jessica Merizan wrote...



People react more positively to change if you communicate with them and keep them informed. Not doing so is rather poor form on your client service.
[/quote]

The problem is with BSN/EA now is that they simply don't care about their end-users other than that we are spending money. This comes down to a basic philosophy with companies that sell stuff to the masses and that is, once we buy their product ANY further communication with the end-user is losing money. They simply don't want to hear from us unless we are buying their product or perhaps if we are praising them. They have now taken the stance that ANY communication from us that isn't directly related to the "bottom line" is wasted money therefore they are ending our ability to easily communicate our issues to them. I am willing to bet that by the time DAI comes out our ONLY way to communicate with them about non-technical gaming issues will be through facebook/twitter and we all know how effective that is. I also bet by the time DAI comes out there will be no way for us to communicate with each other on BSN other then forum threads that are directly specific to gaming issues and even then they will really limit our ability to criticise anything. Bottom line is this. Unless we are giving them money or heaping praise onto them, they want us to shut up. They will probably chage BSN to BGN (Bioware Gaming Network) to excise any suggestion that this is a "social" site.

#428
TheMyron

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If it's NOT broken, don't fix it... how is reducing options an improvement?

#429
AngryFrozenWater

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I think there are no BW employees who think in terms of community building. Instead they think in terms of policing the forums. Anything that can be cut there results in less effort and thus is preferable.

#430
Allan Schumacher

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I think there are no BW employees who think in terms of community building.


Well, I couldn't help but take this personally. Apologies Jessica for a minor derailment, but I did have some observations about some of the issues that I, personally, do have with the social aspects of the site (which are very poor compared to a lot of other social aspects).

I currently have 153 friends on this site, and this is after a recent culling of some (primarily because of content that left me frustrated on my news feed). In most cases, invitations came to me and I tended to accept without much restriction.  In some cases, I actually put forward the request myself because I enjoyed series of interactions I had with a fan. And despite initial accusations that I was a PR shill or whatnot in the wake of ME3's ending, I tried to continue to interact with fans.

But I also found myself in awkward situations, such as when I would go to my news feed to see what a BSN friend has to say in a particular topic, only to find that that person is basically tearing into BioWare for being a bunch of liars regarding a particular topic and effectively calling some of my colleagues (and real life friends) incompetent. Which is certainly not something I want to to really associate myself with, so then I remove friends. Now it's evidently a drama thing, because I would receive PMs going "Hey I noticed you removed me from your friends" with follow ups (because I didn't immediately reply because I tended to get a LOT of PMs) with various degrees of bizarre responses because I didn't respond within some imagined time frame that was considered acceptable.  That if it didn't just end up on my news feed (or even just a friend's profile, because I did click on them...) and I saw some public discourse and drama because Allan removed someone from his friends list.

Or when I do think someone is being unfair, and I ban that person (typically a 1-5 day temporary ban). Though we have some mutual BSN friends and right on my news feed is a post among a common group of friends with laughing comments effectively celebrating the ban, or worse insinuations that I am unfair or unreasonable in enforcing the rules and have favourites because -clearly- I don't ban the actual problem people.


But to say that there are no BW employees who think in terms of community building is certainly a sad thing for me to read, and it certainly makes my attempts to try to interact with people feel like they've certainly been for naught. My entire reason for posting started simply to provide an outlet for people that were mad at ME3, and in time I eventually shifted over to talk more with the Dragon Age groups because that's the project that I actually work on.

I certainly wouldn't say I've been infallible. I pretty much just naively jumped in with little preparation aside from a "Remain professional" that was shared with me in late 2009 in preparation for DAO's release. So yeah, I've definitely taken some things the wrong way when I probably shouldn't have. I've reconciled with some people that I initially snarked at (with varying degrees of longevity), and openly had some humble pie on various topics that were heated but ultimately I was still very new to trying to take part in because I was ignorant to a lot of perspectives.


100% of the time I spend on this forum is completely volunteer and completely of my own volition. And to read that anything that results in less effort is preferable is exactly the type of sword that pierces right through my heart. My brain isn't immune to latching onto things in the worst possible way, and it's really hard to not see something like that and think "I guess I did nothing but waste my time for the last 20 months."

But I guess I was trying to be more proactive in "policing the forums" (even after external moderating teams were brought in so that people like myself and Gaider and Jepler wouldn't need to act as mods.... mostly because I felt a dissonance to turn a blind eye to what I felt was obvious mean spirited posting) so I fit under that umbrella. Doubly conflicting, however, since others in this thread have stated that all would be well if only were were more active in our policing and hired more moderators.


I have more I'd like to say about the topic and discussion in general, though I'll defer somewhat to Jessica as I have no idea what her actual plans are for where she'd like the forums to move to, but at this point it's 3:30 in the morning and I should probably just go to bed. So good night.

Allan

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:37 .


#431
Ohnenick

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^ A point well made and an important reminder of the dangers of generalizing ANYthing really.

Police stop you for speeding? All cops are bastards.
Taxi driver cut you off? All are reckless egomaniacs.
Letter got lost? All postmen are lazy bastards.
Bioware (whoever there) made an unpopular decision? No one at Bioware cares about their fans.

Seems like BSNers in general are oversimplyfing, generalizing toxic waste producers...Image IPB

Modifié par Ohnenick, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:43 .


#432
Khayness

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Ohnenick wrote...

^ A point well made and an important reminder of the dangers of generalizing ANYthing really.

Police stop you for speeding? All cops are bastards.
Taxi driver cut you off? All are reckless egomaniacs.
Letter got lost? All postmen are lazy bastards.
Bioware (whoever there) made an unpopular decision? No one at Bioware cares about their fans.

Seems like BSNers in general are oversimplyfing, generalizing toxic waste producers...Image IPB


My sarcasm detector is a bit wonky atm, please reassure me before I write an answer to that.

Modifié par Khayness, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:46 .


#433
Ohnenick

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Khayness wrote...

Ohnenick wrote...

Seems like BSNers in general are oversimplyfing, generalizing toxic waste producers...Image IPB


My sarcasm detector is a bit wonky atm, please reassure me before I write an answer to that.


Confirm sarcasm in that last sentence to be off the charts...Image IPB

#434
Khayness

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Ohnenick wrote...

Confirm sarcasm in that last sentence to be off the charts...Image IPB


Okay, crisis averted then.

Although I have to admit it, I'm quite fond of the term toxic forums, it's so deliciously full of one-sided blame.

#435
fchopin

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

100% of the time I spend on this forum is completely volunteer and completely of my own volition. And to read that anything that results in less effort is preferable is exactly the type of sword that pierces right through my heart. My brain isn't immune to latching onto things in the worst possible way, and it's really hard to not see something like that and think "I guess I did nothing but waste my time for the last 20 months."

Allan



Your posts the last 20 months have been a great help to many people so please do not stop posting just because a few people are upset.

#436
Liamv2

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I hope to see the new features soon.

#437
Naughty Bear

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I don't understand the hate, Jessica Said a better version of groups, photos, blogs etc will be announced when it is ready?

#438
Dio Demon

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Could we get an estimated ETA on the new features? It might calm some people down.

#439
EarthboundNess

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Naughty Bear wrote...

I don't understand the hate, Jessica Said a better version of groups, photos, blogs etc will be announced when it is ready?


You can't really blame some people for having trust issues with Bioware. And the initial post was a little ambiguous.

Anyways, what Jessica has said afterwards, and in particular Allan's response is enough for me at least.

#440
Arppis

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Could we finaly be able to change picture WITHOUT Dragon Age Origins? :P

#441
Jarl Johnnie Walker

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Naughty Bear wrote...

I don't understand the hate, Jessica Said a better version of groups, photos, blogs etc will be announced when it is ready?


They could with starting with getting straight to the point. Instead of dancing around words.
Tell us what exactly what they plan to do. They give reason to speculate at this point.

Modifié par Galactic Cannibalism, 14 novembre 2013 - 11:59 .


#442
C9316

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Arppis wrote...

Could we finaly be able to change picture WITHOUT Dragon Age Origins? :P


That'll be five dollars. 

#443
Fast Jimmy

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I work for ESPN.

#444
AngryFrozenWater

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@Allan:

Allan, I do not disrespect your contributions on this forum. Far from that. I value your posts here. To be friendly and involved doesn't mean thinking in terms of community building, when at the same time the changes to BSN point to taking away features. A clear voice is Chris. OT needs to go because it is a hassle to maintain and it doesn't contribute to BW centered discussion. It is as if he is thinking about people in terms of resources and nothing more. Thus, his attitude certainly does not build the community. Jessica, who no doubt means just as well as Chris, delivers the message what is going to be removed in the short term, but cannot tell anyone what is coming back. Of course this community is free, but that doesn't mean I like the proposed changes when nothing is on the horizon. I even wonder what that large thread was about. We were asked about improvements, but all we see is cutting the features. No one asked for those. That remains a given.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 novembre 2013 - 12:23 .


#445
MerAnne

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Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have more I'd like to say about the topic and discussion in general, though I'll defer somewhat to Jessica as I have no idea what her actual plans are for where she'd like the forums to move to, but at this point it's 3:30 in the morning and I should probably just go to bed. So good night.

Allan


Allan, to me the big problem was how this was presented and what is being removed.  Making projects 'read only and eventually phasing them out'?  I don't talk on the forums NEARLY as much as some, but I used the projects for modding because it is far easier to set up a test group than it is on Nexus - where all modders should go instead of using BSN according to Jessica.  Read Only and phase out Albums - that I used to show people what they should see when installing party pickers.  Read Only and phase out blogs -  that had information on how to write mods.  And for those who write - one of the major ways of sharing fan art.  So I guess the message is that modders should just go someplace else because BSN has no interest in us or what we do to keep people interested in the Bioware games that can be modded.

Jessica, I really hope that you have a plan, but what you have right now is a PR disaster because you told us what you are taking away immediately (11/19).  But give us no timefame on when something else will be available or what that something else will be.  You HAVE caused concerns that eventually you will remove the old forum posts that some of us still use for reference purposes even though some are 4 years old and Sunjammer even asked if this will affect the toolset wiki - a VERY valid concern in my opinion.  And a question that I would like to see answered.  It would have been polite to at least tell the modding community that you don't want us here and would like us to pack up our mods and go somewhere else rather than giving us so little notice.  I can see a 'soon' lockdown on creating new project pages, I can see making abandoned projects 'read only', but not even going to let us upload updates to our existing projects? 

I really wish I had been asked to provide some of this feedback.  I guess the "silent majority' strikes again.

Modifié par MerAnne, 14 novembre 2013 - 12:24 .


#446
Rusty Sandusky

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I don't know if you've realised, but someone works for ESPN

#447
MerAnne

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Yes, I've noticed, I've REALLY noticed

#448
Khayness

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

A clear voice is Chris. OT needs to go because it is a hassle to maintain and it doesn't contribute to BW centered discussion.


Leave OT alone, Party temple changed my life!

#449
CrazyRah

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Naughty Bear wrote...

I don't understand the hate, Jessica Said a better version of groups, photos, blogs etc will be announced when it is ready?


And Bioware and Jessica has said things before, a "promise" of "better" versions isn't that good of a reasurement at this point

#450
Creator Limbs

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Random Jerkface wrote...

Thread got more dramatics than West End, goddamn.


I know right. Dunno what everyone's tripping over ****** for.