778 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanry Roo]

[Vilation of Rule #6 removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 14 novembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[Tup3x]

Arppis wrote...

Could we finaly be able to change picture WITHOUT Dragon Age Origins?

Hopefully they blacklist animated gifs too.

[luna1124]

MerAnne wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I have more I'd like to say about the topic and discussion in general, though I'll defer somewhat to Jessica as I have no idea what her actual plans are for where she'd like the forums to move to, but at this point it's 3:30 in the morning and I should probably just go to bed. So good night.

Allan

Allan, to me the big problem was how this was presented and what is being removed.  Making projects 'read only and eventually phasing them out'?  I don't talk on the forums NEARLY as much as some, but I used the projects for modding because it is far easier to set up a test group than it is on Nexus - where all modders should go instead of using BSN according to Jessica.  Read Only and phase out Albums - that I used to show people what they should see when installing party pickers.  Read Only and phase out blogs -  that had information on how to write mods.  And for those who write - one of the major ways of sharing fan art.  So I guess the message is that modders should just go someplace else because BSN has no interest in us or what we do to keep people interested in the Bioware games that can be modded.

Jessica, I really hope that you have a plan, but what you have right now is a PR disaster because you told us what you are taking away immediately (11/19).  But give us no timefame on when something else will be available or what that something else will be.  You HAVE caused concerns that eventually you will remove the old forum posts that some of us still use for reference purposes even though some are 4 years old and Sunjammer even asked if this will affect the toolset wiki - a VERY valid concern in my opinion.  And a question that I would like to see answered.  It would have been polite to at least tell the modding community that you don't want us here and would like us to pack up our mods and go somewhere else rather than giving us so little notice.  I can see a 'soon' lockdown on creating new project pages, I can see making abandoned projects 'read only', but not even going to let us upload updates to our existing projects? 

I really wish I had been asked to provide some of this feedback.  I guess the "silent majority' strikes again.

Thank you MerAnne. Other people are posting pictures and adding childish comments, so this thread looks like a circus. Way to go people, Is that the best way you can think of to get BSN to change thier minds?.

[Rusty Sandusky]

Tup3xi wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Could we finaly be able to change picture WITHOUT Dragon Age Origins?

Hopefully they blacklist animated gifs too.

But I'm rather fond of this avi.

[Dave of Canada]

Can we have a functional blocklist? I work for ESPN.

[Adrian Shepherd]

The polls will be missed.

I do look forward to clean up the mess which is the left sidebar, it's hard to view and edit my profile or get an overview of threads I participate in.

It would be nice to see the result to the survey you sent around a while back. That would help us understand the reasons of your changes to BSN.

[Hainkpe]

A thread full of pleas.

Don't take photo albums!
Don't take the mod section!
Don't take groups!

Bioware Staff, I have a request. Would you consider making your changes WITHOUT telling the community? I am serious. Every time the Bioware Staff try to ease in change, prepare people, it doesn't work. You have this kind of thread and panic. You will have this kind of thread and panic no matter what. Basically just post an FYI that change is coming on such and such date. Then leave it and go live on that date.

Having worked in organizations and agencies filled with people, its the same whether in person or on an online community. People will assume the worse. With this community, its pretty much the same.

I wish you luck in these future weeks. You have set BSN for a pattern of behavior which will be uncomfortable for some and just plain hilarity for others.

[ElitePinecone]

Jessica Merizan wrote...
I also think that the way polls are used on BSN right now is not very scientific or representative. 

This times a million!

People making polls and claiming that they are representative of the fanbase as a whole has got to be the most aggravating trend of the last year or so. 

Not only do they give false legitimacy to really questionable claims, but it feeds into a whole bunch of conspiracies about "ignoring" the "fans", and in some cases I think contributes to the echo-chamber atmosphere that tends to dominate the forums occasionally. 

Removing the ability to conduct polls might actually make debates more sensible, since nobody can put their faith in junk statistics.

[Dominus]

For what it's worth, I thought about it a bit and Blogs/albums could still have a proxy presence. As long as groups are still being kept in continuity, blog(s) can exist within a group.

As far as photo albums, you could still technically "tag" people via your friends' comment wall through HTML script "img src", etc etc. The photo could either be directly from the original source or some third party website like photobucket. These are the only work-arounds I was able to come up with. Hope that helps.

[giftfish]

MerAnne wrote...

Allan, to me the big problem was how this was presented and what is being removed.  Making projects 'read only and eventually phasing them out'?  I don't talk on the forums NEARLY as much as some, but I used the projects for modding because it is far easier to set up a test group than it is on Nexus - where all modders should go instead of using BSN according to Jessica. 

And....Nexus does not host Mass Effect mods. Yet.

Your post is very well said MerAnne, and your opinions shared by the entire modding community.

[luna1124]

All the ME related sites link here to Bioware projects pages. So removing these projects is such a GREAT LOSS.
I am going to be downloading all the mods I am interested in from the project pages in the next 5 days and putting them on disk. (The mods that are not already hosted on Nexus). As for the forums with priceless information and tips for the DA toolset, it is impossible to gather that information in 5 days for safe keeping.

[meonlyred]

I've already begun making back ups of the mods and tutorials I get from the projects and blogs. I'm glad I know two of the major Mass Effect modders personally.

I guess I won't need to come back to this site ever again. The communities I'm part of have already moved off site because of the ME3 characters and romances thread being locked down. I was only returning for the tutorial blogs and mods.

[Fast Jimmy]

DominusVita wrote...

For what it's worth, I thought about it a bit and Blogs/albums could still have a proxy presence. As long as groups are still being kept in continuity, blog(s) can exist within a group.

As far as photo albums, you could still technically "tag" people via your friends' comment wall through HTML script "img src", etc etc. The photo could either be directly from the original source or some third party website like photobucket. These are the only work-arounds I was able to come up with. Hope that helps.

Although, to be fair, Jessica did say that groups wold be reworked. Who would know for sure if those functionalities of groups would continue?

[Dominus]

Although, to be fair, Jessica did say that groups would be reworked. Who would know for sure if those functionalities of groups would continue?

I would assume the people designing them. :-p I'm working off of vague educational guesses and speculation. Without concrete information of where exactly this is going, I'm grasping at straws. It was meant a temporary fix at best until the "next step" of BSN is initiated....the next step of course being the entire message board transforming into a megazord from power rangers.

Modifié par DominusVita, 14 novembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[jwalker]

meonlyred wrote...

I've already begun making back ups of the mods and tutorials I get from the projects and blogs. I'm glad I know two of the major Mass Effect modders personally.

I guess I won't need to come back to this site ever again. The communities I'm part of have already moved off site because of the ME3 characters and romances thread being locked down. I was only returning for the tutorial blogs and mods.

This site is in "between games" so there isn't much activity in forums. What is left is the interaction people have through albums, polls, blogs.... 
I guess they want to get rid of the social aspect of BSN. They should rename it to BN. The 'S' wont stand for anything.

[meonlyred]

Or they could just change it to BS.

[jwalker]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...
I also think that the way polls are used on BSN right now is not very scientific or representative. 

This times a million!

People making polls and claiming that they are representative of the fanbase as a whole has got to be the most aggravating trend of the last year or so. 

Not only do they give false legitimacy to really questionable claims, but it feeds into a whole bunch of conspiracies about "ignoring" the "fans", and in some cases I think contributes to the echo-chamber atmosphere that tends to dominate the forums occasionally. 

Removing the ability to conduct polls might actually make debates more sensible, since nobody can put their faith in junk statistics.

lmao, never thought these polls were supposed to be an actual tool for statistics

It's a tool to interact with other people, with your friends. How many times can you ask "What's your favorite class?" or "Who did you romance in Mass Effect 1?" Seriously.
It's a way to ask something with a few options and exchange comments with others. It's about being social.

[Urk]

Just FYI, not that I expect anyone cares about customers like me, I have made my feelings about the EA buyout pretty clear and I don't buy the crap BW/EA makes any more.

But just FYI...

I am unhappy with this but it honestly won't impact my visitation to the site.

But once the NWN builders forums go away, and that certainly seems to be inevitable, so do I.

If this was, in fact, a "social network" I would stay. I have friends here and I enjoy the threads, both BW related and off topic, but these changes make it clear this is not a social network. It's an EA house organ. Telling me you are going to wipe out all my old content is bad enough, but doing it with a smile on your face and a nebulous promise that maybe I can start all over again from scratch some time in the unforeseeable future just adds insult to injury.

[ElitePinecone]

jwalker wrote...

It's a way to ask something with a few options and exchange comments with others. It's about being social.

Sure, but some people weren't using them like that - they were treating polls as actual, scientific measurements of how the fanbase (or at least BSN) feels about things. 

After the ME3 endings when something like 70,000 people replied to one poll, dozens of very, very vocal fans were throwing that result around as if it meant anything, and as if those results were representative of the opinions and feelings of the entire fanbase. Neither of those things is true. 

Giving fans the ability to conduct huge polls which they can then misinterpret and misuse is not a good thing, frankly. It twists the debate in weird directions that it shouldn't go in ("all fans think X", rather than "I think X") and means people are misinformed or misled. It generates a false consensus around certain issues, and when Bioware are perceived to not be following this "consensus", the reactions get ugly. 

I totally understand that there's a social aspect, and maybe there should be a way to generate that sort of interaction, but I think it's definitely a positive thing that people can't use BSN polls from now on to advance a whole bunch of different arguments, when any results are going to be unscientific and unrepresentative. 

[Kinom001]

While moving "Polls, Albums, Projects and Blogs" won't bother me, since I never use them, I do think it would be appropriate to provide another alternative to the community. I'd think this would be especially relevant to Albums and Projects, two sections that require(d) an actual time commitment from the community members.

[Ottemis]

I've always kept a sunny perspective on Bioware as a company and the direction they take things. I'm not one to blindly hate on BioWare as a company for decisions they've made that might reflect negatively on something I love. My passion for the games BioWare create spills over into my modding and right now, for the first time, I feel betrayed and stepped upon personally because all this time and effort that I never expected to be recognized IS being spat on quite literally.

This feels like I'm being told, "Hey! I see your enthusiasm for our games and your continuous support, but you see we just don't care. Please leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out."

I am kind of stumped on the "can't officially support modding since we don't own the engines" part, not because I don't understand or respect the argument but seeing 90% of all total mods created and 99% of all mods hosted on the BSN for the ME series are TEXMOD TPF's that leave your gamefiles untouched. That Bioware doesn't officially support the creation and use of tools that change your gamefiles, obviously. But texmod operates non-invasively.

So we have NWN and DA:O that have official toolsets and ARE officially supported and still have content generated after all this time, the other modders (ME1/2/3) that don't have anywhere else to take their mods as there are (often repeated here) ZERO go-to places to post them and you are now shafting us both equally by locking projects in 5 days. You do realise how heavily you are effectively spitting on your creative corner by doing this right?

Modifié par Ottemis, 14 novembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[Tup3x]

If they want to sink their ship, well, it's their problem. Showing the middle finger to modding community is generally pretty large mistake. They are underestimating the positive boost modding can give for game. If they axe modding are for good and don't plan to release alternative option, it will definitely hurt the popularity of their games. However, there's always alternatives for hosting files (though it usually means that large amount of community moves away from BSN - and if that's their hidden motive, then they succeed for sure).

Modifié par Tup3xi, 14 novembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[SlottsMachine]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...
I also think that the way polls are used on BSN right now is not very scientific or representative. 

This times a million!

People making polls and claiming that they are representative of the fanbase as a whole has got to be the most aggravating trend of the last year or so. 

Not only do they give false legitimacy to really questionable claims, but it feeds into a whole bunch of conspiracies about "ignoring" the "fans", and in some cases I think contributes to the echo-chamber atmosphere that tends to dominate the forums occasionally. 

Removing the ability to conduct polls might actually make debates more sensible, since nobody can put their faith in junk statistics.

Anybody putting any faith in a poll should be ignored and/or laughed at. I do agree that polls where mostly useless, usually just silly fun. 

[Iakus]

ElitePinecone wrote...

jwalker wrote...

It's a way to ask something with a few options and exchange comments with others. It's about being social.

Sure, but some people weren't using them like that - they were treating polls as actual, scientific measurements of how the fanbase (or at least BSN) feels about things. 

After the ME3 endings when something like 70,000 people replied to one poll, dozens of very, very vocal fans were throwing that result around as if it meant anything, and as if those results were representative of the opinions and feelings of the entire fanbase. Neither of those things is true. 

Giving fans the ability to conduct huge polls which they can then misinterpret and misuse is not a good thing, frankly. It twists the debate in weird directions that it shouldn't go in ("all fans think X", rather than "I think X") and means people are misinformed or misled. It generates a false consensus around certain issues, and when Bioware are perceived to not be following this "consensus", the reactions get ugly. 

I totally understand that there's a social aspect, and maybe there should be a way to generate that sort of interaction, but I think it's definitely a positive thing that people can't use BSN polls from now on to advance a whole bunch of different arguments, when any results are going to be unscientific and unrepresentative. 

Whether the poll was scientific or not, the fact that 70,000 people voted on it said something all by itself.

But it's not polls going away that angers me, it's the groups and projects.  First certain topics became verboten on the forums and told to move to groups.  Now they're coming for the groups.

And modding has always been something Biwoare has stood by, even if they officially couldn't.  Now they're being kicked to the curb too.

If there is something positive coming from this, it better be announced soon.  All I'm seeing from this perspective is a reduction of features for no good reason.  This speaks of either budget/staffing cuts, or yet another misreading of the audience.