778 réponses à ce sujet

[Sundance31us]

I always looked at it this way.

You're at a party and there are ppl dancing...that's the forum.

Then over by the bar you have a group of ppl making comments about the ppl dancing...that was BSN's poll section (ie a place to let off steam when the forum itself was getting to you because letting it off in form would get you banned).

As for Projects...well what do you think Garrus and Zaeed were doing during Shepard's party?

[Setiweb]

I haven't seen this much activity in a single day since that time long ago I got a message saying something along the lines of "we're removing our current site and replacing it with the Bioware Social Network."

[Sanunes]

Setiweb wrote...

I haven't seen this much activity in a single day since that time long ago I got a message saying something along the lines of "we're removing our current site and replacing it with the Bioware Social Network."

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  Most of the comments made echo what was said in the past.

With any changes people are going to be upset with those changes, but unlike us BioWare has the statistics of forum usage. There are people who do use the impacted areas, but if they aren't used anymore by a majority of the visitors of the website, does it make sense to keep it supporting it?

I personally was hoping the BSN was going to be completely rebuilt from the ground up and at that time everything would be just locked down, just like when they moved to the BSN in 2009.

Modifié par Sanunes, 15 novembre 2013 - 06:53 .

[Tarot Redhand]

Having ploughed through all 22 pages of this thread, I thought I would have my say. I see that some people have a remarkable facility to go off topic at the drop of a hat. So I will most definitely stay on topic and point out something that no one else seems to have picked up on.

[addressing  cheif moderator]

Perhaps it's because I am the leader of a group that I noticed this. You say that you want to not merely preserve groups, you actually want them to flourish. May one ask how, when these current plans will eviscerate them? First you are removing projects which are one of the raison detre as far as may groups are concerned. But not not only that you are also removing albums. So what may I ask happens to the photos attached to groups? From the mechanics of them it is apparent that they use the same mechanisms as albums and in all probability use the same server space as well. Or hadn't that occurred to you when you arbitrarily decided upon this coup de gras upon the BSN?

[end of address]

TR

Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:47 .

[Arppis]

C9316 wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Could we finaly be able to change picture WITHOUT Dragon Age Origins?

That'll be five dollars. 

FIVE DOLLAH!? IMMA OUTA HERE!

But seriously speaking. Would like this feature very much.

I don't even see a reason why it isn't a feature. People can put rather random pictures already, it's just that... I don't want to buy DA:0 for PC just to change my picture here. Screw that.

And also I'm sure staff could moderate the pictures better if they were part of the system already.

Modifié par Arppis, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:52 .

[SirLysander]

Filament wrote...

I've downloaded a few, haha. It seemed a bit redundant with the nexus site.

Your dictionary must have a different meaning for redundant than mine does.  There are no Mass Effect (1, 2, or 3) mods on Nexus. therefore, if you want to download mods for Mass Effect, having them on BSN is not duplicitave, repetitive, or in ecess of requirements.  Googling for mods tends to take you back here, but I didn't see Nexus anywhere in the first couple pages of results.  Now, Nexus does have a Dragon Age section, but compare their selection to BSN's.

Filament wrote...
I suppose if you have 400 of them it would be upsetting, granted. That is an investment. Being more personally affected doesn't give anyone special insight into the reason bioware did this, however... especially when we don't even know what 'this' is really.

We've been suspecting changes to the BSN were in the pipeline for a long time now, as I recall.

Insight into the reason why they would make this move, perhaps not.  But stifling the creative impulse to make such mods, yea, there's be a whole lot of insight into that if BSN squelches projects on its own Social Network.  And right now, what "this" looks like is that Projects are going away.  Locking out uploading to projects that are already in existance?  Goodby future support if there was an error or flaw in that mod.

[Tarot Redhand]

Being on the legacy part of the community, I have seen no evidence of a toxic community. Insane? Sometimes, but that goes with the territory (). And no this isn't an invitation to trolls either.

TR

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

Tarot Redhand wrote...

Being on the legacy part of the community, I have seen no evidence of a toxic community. Insane? Sometimes, but that goes with the territory (). And no this isn't an invitation to trolls either.

TR

Is this Polaris's alternate account?

Who's Polaris?

-Raven Sword

[Tarot Redhand]

Not being a redundant ex submarine launched nuclear missile, I do not know what you are talking about. I am a uk resident feline with badly cleaned teeth.So who is this Polaris that has more than 1 account?

TR

[Rusty Sandusky]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Tarot Redhand wrote...

Being on the legacy part of the community, I have seen no evidence of a toxic community. Insane? Sometimes, but that goes with the territory (). And no this isn't an invitation to trolls either.

TR

Is this Polaris's alternate account?

Who's Polaris?

-Raven Sword

I hate that so much.

Why do you hate it so much?

TOU

[Ravensword]

J. Reezy wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...
Why do you hate it so much?

TOU

I'd pimp slap you through the internet but you formatted it wrong so it's not as annoying.

Yeah.

-Raven Sword

[Tarot Redhand]

Ho-hum - off topic guys.

TR

[Rusty Sandusky]

J. Reezy wrote...

ThisOnesUsername wrote...
Why do you hate it so much?

TOU

I'd pimp slap you through the internet but you formatted it wrong so it's not as annoying. Needs the hyphen.

EDIT: Actually scratch that...

Ow! My face!


-TOU

[Ravensword]

Tarot Redhand wrote...

Ho-hum - off topic guys.

TR

You bring up a good point. The off-topic section will probably get nuked as well eventually. Not talking about products from EA's competitors allowed.

[Bugsie]

ElitePinecone wrote...
If you're a statistician or a scientist then the first thing you should be doing is dismissing nonrepresentative, non random sampling with these sorts of questions as completely junk.

Self-selection bias? Errors in the question wording? None of that rings alarm bells?

Dismissing data? No - not unless you really want to skew results totally one way and that's bias of different kind. I already mentioned there are several types of bias these polls can suffer from (I just didn't specify them) but to dismiss them totally outright? No, and it's not total junk - despite the statistics being of a problematic nature, there are ways to extract useful information.

Just a note: I haven't seen the specific wording of the poll being talked about, I don't know what/how they asked the question, or in fact what the outcome was, I am merely speculating on it given the sample size was actually quite large (if 1.5 million copies are sold the poll represents roughly around 5% of copies sold.)

Every sampling procedure is biased, even the most rigorous of testing involves a degree of error - which is accounted for in the mathematics of statistical equations. But that point is moot as this wasn't a scientific poll.

If it were though - I'm assuming it was a pro/anti ender poll of some sort. So in this instance if all pro- enders were excluded from the poll then there are no adjustments you can make so that estimates can be produced that represent the entire population. But this was not the case from what I understand! Even if it was only the most fervent pro Enders and anti Enders taking part you cannot totally dismiss the result based on self-selection bias. Pro enders may have been underrepresented - but if this was a true scientific poll you could allocate a sample weight to correct the bias.

So if Bioware sold 1.5 million copies of ME3 (by rough estimate) and biased sample poll of 70000 was conducted with 56000 anti-Enders and 14000 pro- Enders (80% to 20%) You could weight the results in a ratio that would change it to represent a 50:50 ratio. Perfectly valid and legitimate means of assessing a polls outcome.

Also - Most polls of this kind would require only about 10000 respondents to be considered a valid sample size for the population.

So 70000 is not a number to be ignored, even with bias. 70000 as a sample size of BSN, definitely valid. Sample size does count. I'm sorry, you're wrong.

Also - these results, however biased, do not exist in a vacuum. Even if the majority of players didn't care about the ending, and took no part in any poll, it's fairly obvious the most active participants on gaming forums (so not just here) were not happy.

Disclaimer: I don't mind the ending, especially after the EC and Citadel DLC (just in case you think I'm personally biased.). Also, these polls I know are not scientific, but I stand by the statement that things can be inferred from one with a huge number of respondents, (however poorly constructed.)

[ElitePinecone]

Buggirl70 wrote...
snip

The game sold something closer to 5 million copies, not 1.5 million.

And sorry, I totally don't accept that weighting the results could ever offset the biases of these types of online polls. The 70,000 people replying to this one poll are the most extraordinarily hardcore, obsessive fans - not representative at all of the ~4.93 million customers who presumably don't frequent forums, don't follow the games online and who for all we know barely realised an ending controversy existed. Also, why are you weighting the results to produce 50% pro- and anti- enders? Without knowing the prevalence of that view in the total population, why assign that ratio? 

I agree that the poll is useful for one thing and one thing only - knowing the opinions of the people that responded to it. The opinions of 70,000 people shoudn't be discounted, and in this case (without knowing the total membership number of the BSN) it might even represent a large portion of the Mass Effect fans who come here.

But that's now how some people were using this poll. They were claiming - wrongly - that the results were representative of all Mass Effect fans, or at least indicative of a consensus. They were throwing the numbers around triumphantly, as if they were at all relevant to what the fanbase as a whole thought, and as if the opinions of 70,000 people could be extrapolated to 5 million. They were incorrectly assuming that the poll was scientific and useful just because it had a large sample. 

That sort of view is, frankly, dangerous. It gives false legitimacy and false authority to polls that are unscientific and unrepresentative. It puts incorrect "statistics" in the hands of people who don't understand them, can't use them, and have all sorts of really strong feelings that they think these numbers will give credence to. It diminishes good debate and leads to all sorts of "facts" flying around that simply aren't true.

[luna1124]

Everyone here has a different opinion on what they will miss. Some people like the blogs, some like the polls, almost everyone likes the albums and the builders like the projects.

[Sanunes]

Buggirl70 wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
If you're a statistician or a scientist then the first thing you should be doing is dismissing nonrepresentative, non random sampling with these sorts of questions as completely junk.

Self-selection bias? Errors in the question wording? None of that rings alarm bells?

Dismissing data? No - not unless you really want to skew results totally one way and that's bias of different kind. I already mentioned there are several types of bias these polls can suffer from (I just didn't specify them) but to dismiss them totally outright? No, and it's not total junk - despite the statistics being of a problematic nature, there are ways to extract useful information.

Just a note: I haven't seen the specific wording of the poll being talked about, I don't know what/how they asked the question, or in fact what the outcome was, I am merely speculating on it given the sample size was actually quite large (if 1.5 million copies are sold the poll represents roughly around 5% of copies sold.)

Every sampling procedure is biased, even the most rigorous of testing involves a degree of error - which is accounted for in the mathematics of statistical equations. But that point is moot as this wasn't a scientific poll.

If it were though - I'm assuming it was a pro/anti ender poll of some sort. So in this instance if all pro- enders were excluded from the poll then there are no adjustments you can make so that estimates can be produced that represent the entire population. But this was not the case from what I understand! Even if it was only the most fervent pro Enders and anti Enders taking part you cannot totally dismiss the result based on self-selection bias. Pro enders may have been underrepresented - but if this was a true scientific poll you could allocate a sample weight to correct the bias.

So if Bioware sold 1.5 million copies of ME3 (by rough estimate) and biased sample poll of 70000 was conducted with 56000 anti-Enders and 14000 pro- Enders (80% to 20%) You could weight the results in a ratio that would change it to represent a 50:50 ratio. Perfectly valid and legitimate means of assessing a polls outcome.

Also - Most polls of this kind would require only about 10000 respondents to be considered a valid sample size for the population.

So 70000 is not a number to be ignored, even with bias. 70000 as a sample size of BSN, definitely valid. Sample size does count. I'm sorry, you're wrong.

Also - these results, however biased, do not exist in a vacuum. Even if the majority of players didn't care about the ending, and took no part in any poll, it's fairly obvious the most active participants on gaming forums (so not just here) were not happy.

Disclaimer: I don't mind the ending, especially after the EC and Citadel DLC (just in case you think I'm personally biased.). Also, these polls I know are not scientific, but I stand by the statement that things can be inferred from one with a huge number of respondents, (however poorly constructed.)

Here is the poll in mention - http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

The problem I have with that poll is there isn't any real way to limit who can vote, for all that we know a portion of the people that voted didn't buy the game or people skewed the results by voting multiple times by creating multiple accounts. The other issue with a poll like that one is the wording, for there are only three options on it and frankly to get a good sense where people stood would need a lot more and more neutral language.

I will say that poll gave a good view of the people that were active on the BSN at that time, but I know personally I got tired of the insults and name calling if you happened to be alright with the ending or didn't care one way or the other and took a hiatus from here which a poll like that can't track my vote then.

[Khayness]

It seems this thread reached criticall mass and collapsed into a ME3 ending thread.

Oh, the inevitable laws of the BSN.

[Tarot Redhand]

@Buggirl70
@ElitePinecone
@Sanunes

Kindly create a topic to continue that discussion elsewhere. Quite frankly I don't care about your petty arguments about black is white and my poll says so. It is totally off the the topic of this thread and utterly irrelevant.

TR

[TheRealJayDee]

So, more changes to, urm, make our experience here on the BSN better. Personally I'm not using any of the features that'll go, but for every feature I can think of a few folks I know will be disappointed and I don't know anybody who ever said these things needed to go.

At the very least the communication about this should have been better, but I've pretty much given up on that quite a while ago.

The Off-topic section is the only place here I regularly use, because it's fun, diverse and people are mostly nice. I would talk about Bioware games in the respective forums, but at least to me there is nothing to talk about. Mass Effect is over for me, and I won't get overly involved with Inquisition until it's released. At best I take a look at the DA:I forum from time to time while frequenting the OT forum.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

100% of the time I spend on this forum is completely volunteer and completely of my own volition.

And that is much appreciated, as I've often said! You did a good job during the ME3 meltdown(s), and you're one of very few Bioware-ians I can say this about. Still you can only do so much, and you shouldn't be needed to discuss games you didn't even work on or to, erm, "police the forums".

I've frequently asked things and given my opinion about the moderation on the BSN, especially during the ME3 days, and I don't see the point in continuing to do so since we already got a... solution in form of the #ModBots (I don't mean that name disrepectful, it's just how they look and feel).

At the end of the day imo the BSN is about the users as much as it is about Bioware games. I appreciate both, but atm it's the people that make me stay. If that's ultimately not what Bioware/EA wants for the BSN that's sad, but fine.