778 réponses à ce sujet

[Tup3x]

This would hardly be a problem if you guys plan to add some kind of modding/user content hub in the new system (or what every you are planning). You could then just keep the old stuff as read only and give some time for people to migrate their work. Obsolete stuff that nobody cares would likely get purged in the process. User created content and modding add game longevity and is free advertising as well (even if the game doesn't officially support modding). Sometimes things get viral (Skyrim is good example, it wouldn't be what it is now without modding community - heck, neither would Mass Effect). It will hurt the game popularity for sure if BioWare turns its back to modders/content creators.

It's not too much to ask that people download their stuff when things get read only but I do hope that you guys have plans how to handle this kind of content after you make the change.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 16 novembre 2013 - 12:23 .

[Bugsie]

Tarot Redhand wrote...
@Buggirl70 - Would you kindly do your research. I do not have multiple accounts. Unlike you I have not locked people from looking at my account, so all you had to do was to click on my user name to find that I am not the person you think I am (whoever you think that is). Just pop down to the nwn/custom content threads where I normally reside. I am just one person who finds it tedious when people continue to argue over a single poll from entrenched positions, when all of the polls are to be removed.

TR

*sigh* obviously making light of things is verboten.

I was arguing a point between Elite and myself which is releveant to this topic (as several others had also bought up the issue too, not just us) and if it 'bored you' or you found it 'tedious' you could have just scrolled past.  Considering it was taking up all of, what - 3-4 posts?  You're being needlessly antagonistic, and I might add, I find that tedious.

[giftfish]

Tup3xi wrote...

This would hardly be a problem if you guys plan to add some kind of modding/user content hub in the new system (or what every you are planning). You could then just keep the old stuff as read only and give some time for people to migrate their work. Obsolete stuff that nobody cares would likely get purged in the process. User created content and modding add game longevity and is free advertising as well (even if the game doesn't officially support modding). Sometimes things get viral (Skyrim is good example, it wouldn't be what it is now without modding community - heck, neither would Mass Effect). It will hurt the game popularity for sure if BioWare turns its back to modders/content creators.

It's not too much to ask that people download their stuff when things get read only but I do hope that you guys have plans how to handle this kind of content after you make the change.

Yeah, this would be nice. Making things read-only temporarily during a migration is understandable and expected. Not a big deal.

But, that's not what the message says, and that's not what Jessica has said. The current message we're getting is that the Project content is going away, period. It's going read only with less than a week's notice (who's bright idea was that, btw?), and then it will eventually be removed completely from any incarnation of BSN.

If this isn't accurate, then it would be in everyone's best interest, for BW to let us know.

[Tarot Redhand]

@Buggirl70 having been accused of being Polaris (whoever that is) by J. Reezy on page 22, I am somewhat sensitive to being accused of being someone I am not. I am sorry if you find my blunt style antagonistic. Your own contribution to that discussion may well have been only 3-4 messages, but it actually started on page 19 of this thread and has continued all the way to this page via a total of 18 messages.

TR

[Tup3x]

giftfish wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

This would hardly be a problem if you guys plan to add some kind of modding/user content hub in the new system (or what every you are planning). You could then just keep the old stuff as read only and give some time for people to migrate their work. Obsolete stuff that nobody cares would likely get purged in the process. User created content and modding add game longevity and is free advertising as well (even if the game doesn't officially support modding). Sometimes things get viral (Skyrim is good example, it wouldn't be what it is now without modding community - heck, neither would Mass Effect). It will hurt the game popularity for sure if BioWare turns its back to modders/content creators.

It's not too much to ask that people download their stuff when things get read only but I do hope that you guys have plans how to handle this kind of content after you make the change.

Yeah, this would be nice. Making things read-only temporarily during a migration is understandable and expected. Not a big deal.

But, that's not what the message says, and that's not what Jessica has said. The current message we're getting is that the Project content is going away, period. It's going read only with less than a week's notice (who's bright idea was that, btw?), and then it will eventually be removed completely from any incarnation of BSN.

If this isn't accurate, then it would be in everyone's best interest, for BW to let us know.

Yep. The main issue is just that, by the sound of it, they are removing the projects/user content are entirely and have no plans to add comparable feature in the future.

And that bolded part.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 16 novembre 2013 - 01:03 .

[SirLysander]

Jesse Reid wrote...

Also, has anyone asked Nexus Mods if
they would be willing to add a category for Mass Effect? And if so what
was their response?

Just to turn that around for a second - why *should* a third-pary host mods for Bioware games, especially when in the past, Bioware was quite content to host such mods themselves?  Should we interpret your question as an intent by Bioware to change it's stance on (single-player) modding?  If this is the case, you should take a look at Jamie's post which I've quoted below for how short-sighted this can be.

JamieCOTC wrote...

And
may I point out that modders found a work-a-round to the Shepard import
bug before BW implemented their fix. And then modders improved upon the
fix. With the recent acknowledgement that BW underestimated the
player's attachment to their characters, Shepard included, I would say
modding went beyond just making ME3 look better, but it was vital to the
experience. Case in point, my own Shepard. She would never had looked
even close to the same if it wasn't for modders. And the site I used to
learn modding the saved files is now defunct, gone. Fortunately, that
information still resides on BSN. Unfortunately, a lot of that
information resides in project files. I have my Shepard back and I love
her, but what about new players or the next game? I'm not a modder, but
this action does anger me. Modding may be virtual, but like cosplay, it
requires a community and support.

Jesse Reid wrote...

We don't have a date for when the soon to be "read only" content would be deleted or even if it would ever be deleted. Giving a concrete date for when what we'll call "legacy" content, for lack of a better word, is never an easy thing to do. For example we still have a Mass Effect 1 marketing site (http://masseffect.bioware.com/me1/) but older titles like Sonic or KOTOR no longer exist.

I would hope that we can provide ample warning time for you to back up content that was going to be deleted but be assured the blog, album, poll, and project content is not going to be deleted on Tuesday.

Wow - that is shockingly bad data management.  Even if you (Bioware) don't delete something on X date, you should at least give a firm (and fair) date of X - Y for data to be moved.  From everything listed, it looks like this latter date is 19 November 2013, which is an extremely short turn-around for this kind of thing.  And, if someone just happens to be uncontactable this week - or in the next four days - what, is it "too bad, so sad, the information is locked/read only"?  I hope this is NOT the case.

[Sundance31us]

Jesse Reid wrote...

Once the project section goes read only is there any reason why a group couldn't be used to showcase the project and link to the files?

Also, has anyone asked Nexus Mods if they would be willing to add a category for Mass Effect? And if so what was their response?

There's a year old thread on the forum:

http://forums.nexusm...s-effect-nexus/

And nothing else.

[giftfish]

SirLysander wrote...
And, if someone just happens to be uncontactable this week - or in the next four days - what, is it "too bad, so sad, the information is locked/read only"?  I hope this is NOT the case.

This.

Fob was out of town this week...last week...I forget. Not only did he just release v0.4 for MEHEM, but he's currently working on the epilogue portion of ThaneMOD. MEHEM is currently largest content mod for ME3 and Fob is a major part of the modding community. I certainly won't speak for him or how he'll feel about this, but to provide 6 days notice until read only, when folks could be unavailable during that short amount of time is pretty craptastic.

[giftfish]

Sundance31us wrote...

Jesse Reid wrote...

Once the project section goes read only is there any reason why a group couldn't be used to showcase the project and link to the files?

Also, has anyone asked Nexus Mods if they would be willing to add a category for Mass Effect? And if so what was their response?

There's a year old thread on the forum:

http://forums.nexusm...s-effect-nexus/

And nothing else.

I keep up with the Nexus pretty regularly and as of about a month ago, DarkOne said "soon". But they've been plagued with issues as they've migrated to their new cluster arrangement and cloud service. "Soon" could still be 6 months or a year from now. We don't know.

Regardless, BW should not be taking the stance of "go somewhere else" to the modding community. Mods bring traffic from external sites, increase player satisfaction of their games, become necessary when BW decides to "improve things" by changing the face mapping of the player characters, and leads to game longevity through encouraging replayability.

BW should be nurturing the modding community. Not telling us to "go use Nexus".

Modifié par giftfish, 16 novembre 2013 - 01:54 .

[zMataxa]

RE: Projects
I don't fully understand how Bioware could NOT continue to fully support modding via Projects etc.
Surely, there could be some kind of a discussion first with the community?

Other websites have tools such as premium memberships or something like that - to offer more benefits. In this case perhaps projects and access to them, is part of that.  I'd pay in a heartbeat.  Some of the mods are easily worth a fair bit more money to enhance the experience in a personal way.   One option would be that the extra dollars could be brought in at at an expense plus 30% extra slush account margin.  This could  offset the increased storage/bandwith/admin costs and at the same time fans realize it's a compromise, and appreciate it. 
Perhaps there are other ways. 
I think at least that discussion should be had.
To add to to this, Bioware appears to be continuing with Origins and some form of BSN, so how much really is it "bolt this on" as a continued feature?

To conclude, this constant pervasive evaluating by the numbers can sometimes ignores all the depth and quality that come out of making more passionate fans at home.  They contribute in ways to your community feeling - and in some ways - beyond quantitative measure.

[Sundance31us]

zMataxa wrote...

Other websites have tools such as premium memberships or something like that - to offer more benefits. In this case perhaps projects and access to them, is part of that.  I'd pay in a heartbeat.  Some of the mods are easily worth a fair bit more money to enhance the experience in a personal way.

I wouldn't mind paying to have my mods hosted here, but prefer to have them available to any member for free.

[meonlyred]

Ottemis wrote...

I know, I just wish that was a majority that won't and can't be ignored.
In general, I think it's a mistake to underestimate the importance of a steady home for modding communities and the impact modding can have on the longevity of games long after their release. I am sure some of "you" (moderators, employees of Bioware) agree with me, but right now "we" (the modding community) are definitely not feeling it.

At any rate, thank you for sharing what you could, if you could try and keep us posted on developments on this front so we are better prepared that would really be appreciated.

I keep thinking of the hours put into the mods here. I keep thinking of the people who have made entire new campaigns for Dragon Age Origins. Of the voice actors hired/volunteered for these new quests. Of the artist who retextured uncountable amount of models. Its heartbreaking. Truly and completely upsetting that so little is cared about the work our insanely talented and devoted fans have thrown at this site. Now we will watch it burn in effigy. 

Thank Bioware. I doubt I will ever get the bitterness out of my mouth.

[zMataxa]

RE: Blogs, Polls, and Albums

Not everyone wants to spend their time on the "front and centre" forums.
Instead, they want to may want to hang with their friends and discuss this and that and still be part of the whole Bioware fabric - in a different way.  Those 3 tools allow a more "closer intimate group feeling" behind the scenes experience, without actually doing it in exclusive groups.  Some of the polls are just a way of interacting without all the "heavy-hitters" that frequent the main forums showing up.

Not everyone wants to wade into the potential war-debate zone.
And that's a very important point.

By virtue of your excellent products that expose us to multiple races and classes and LI - you can nearly accomodate every type of person under the sun (who like fantasy of course). 
What happens when they meet in the forums?  Sparks and worse.
No one is going to change natural human nature - unless you plan on making the forum so rigid or heavily moderated that it's becomes an exercise in frustration.

By providing those alternative places to exchange ideas and "moments", it makes more of your fans feel at home.

In conclusion, I think alot of the fans here do not understand why it's being phased out so suddenly, and with no outline of what is coming to replace it, and worse yet it's gonna be a while before the new design comes out.  That feels like alot of cold water that came out of no where.

I would say more, but I think the main point is made.

[zMataxa]

Sundance31us wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

Other websites have tools such as premium memberships or something like that - to offer more benefits. In this case perhaps projects and access to them, is part of that.  I'd pay in a heartbeat.  Some of the mods are easily worth a fair bit more money to enhance the experience in a personal way.

I wouldn't mind paying to have my mods hosted here, but prefer to have them available to any member for free.

______________

OK.  But I do have to say, I don't think it's fair that the cost is borne exclsuively by the modder.
Personally I'd prefer to see something like 40% modder and 60% by all the downloaders as a collective.
I personally think it's time to put a value on what modders do, even if it's a smaller amount.

[Setiweb]

Jesse Reid wrote...

Once the project section goes read only is there any reason why a group couldn't be used to showcase the project and link to the files?

Also, has anyone asked Nexus Mods if they would be willing to add a category for Mass Effect? And if so what was their response?

I do believe the appropriate procedure would be someone 'official' at BSN to contact DarkOne directly.  We're not pleebs.

[Sundance31us]

zMataxa wrote...

OK.  But I do have to say, I don't think it's fair that the cost is borne exclsuively by the modder.
Personally I'd prefer to see something like 40% modder and 60% by all the downloaders as a collective.
I personally think it's time to put a value on what modders do, even if it's a smaller amount.

And what happens when a downloaded item (DLC since it's being paid for now) doesn't meet the downloader’s expectation? Do they demand a refund from Bioware who was only hosting the site and had nothing to do with the mod creation or from the modder who was doing this on their own time w/o compensation?

[Sundance31us]

meonlyred wrote...

I keep thinking of the hours put into the mods here.

More like months...I'm pretty sure it's not years, but I wasn't keeping track.

[zMataxa]

Sundance31us wrote...

zMataxa wrote...

OK.  But I do have to say, I don't think it's fair that the cost is borne exclsuively by the modder.
Personally I'd prefer to see something like 40% modder and 60% by all the downloaders as a collective.
I personally think it's time to put a value on what modders do, even if it's a smaller amount.

And what happens when a downloaded item (DLC since it's being paid for now) doesn't meet the downloader’s expectation? Do they demand a refund from Bioware who was only hosting the site and had nothing to do with the mod creation or from the modder who was doing this on their own time w/o compensation?

______________

When I took my time and reviewed the text descriptions and the images - well I found every time I was satisfied.  The key was good overviews.  Also, the costs are likely  so small for each mod to download  If it doesn't work - it's not really a big deal.  Perhaps the downloader starts by buying a $5 download pak and many of the mods are only 25cents to download.  The $5 is like the price of one loaded burger.  A consumer should be able to understand the basic principle that  -they are paying for Bioware's costs for enabling the exchange and development, and not paying the modder.

Anyway, I'm not saying that this is the way to go.  I'm just saying there should be a discussion with the modding community and those fans who really appreciate their work.  If it doesn't work out - then Bioware can say we tried - but modders and fans couldn't agree.  But, I think something could be hammered out.


 

Modifié par zMataxa, 16 novembre 2013 - 02:50 .

[Ottemis]

Sundance31us wrote...

meonlyred wrote...

I keep thinking of the hours put into the mods here.

More like months...I'm pretty sure it's not years, but I wasn't keeping track.

In my case it's years. I'm sure that goes for others as well.

As much as I did this in my own time and never expected that effort to be rewarded I do expect it to be acknowledged and effort respected.

Modifié par Ottemis, 16 novembre 2013 - 02:51 .

[Jesse Reid]

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

Modifié par Jesse Reid, 16 novembre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Ottemis]

Jesse Reid wrote...

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

Thank you. Ideally there is an endgame here that allows for projects in the new design and gives us the opportunity to keep this content here where it, in my opinion, belongs.

[zMataxa]

Jesse Reid wrote...

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

_____________

I agree if you frame it as charging for user generated content - that is a bad label.
The key is to relabel as Bandwidth/Admin Bioware costs for Modding Support (because Bioware doesn't use Advertising like the other download sites).
That's automatically understandable for any reasonable user.

Jesse Reid wrote...
I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

____________________

Well that's a wonderful gesture.  Appreciate it!

Modifié par zMataxa, 16 novembre 2013 - 03:00 .

[Mr.House]

Sundance31us wrote...

meonlyred wrote...

I keep thinking of the hours put into the mods here.

More like months...I'm pretty sure it's not years, but I wasn't keeping track.

Depends on the mod, A in-depth mod can take over a year to make, even more if it's quality is high. Things like hair and items don't take long but overhauls, quest ect do take laot of time and taking a year or more to make it is not strange at all.

[Jessica Merizan]

Jesse Reid wrote...

I don't think BioWare wants to get into the practice of charging for user generated content. I'm sure there would be numerous legal hurdles to overcome if we did.

I'll get together with Jessica next week and we'll see what we can do about delaying the read only changes for projects.

No no. We do not want to charge for fan art (cosplay, modding, fiction, art, etc). It's just not ethically right. 

Jesse and I have been keeping an eye on the thread and we will look into any ways we can keep projects active based on your concerns about lack of viable alternatives. Thanks for voicing your feedback in a constructive manner guys. I know it's frustrating, but we appreciate it. 

And for those asking, no - we don’t have any plans to remove the DA Toolset Wiki..

Modifié par Jessica Merizan, 16 novembre 2013 - 03:05 .