42 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Well boo. I know there's not a whole lotta activity with the toolset here, but I'm kinda bummed that that Projects are soon gonna be gone.

Modifié par Obadiah, 14 novembre 2013 - 01:39 .

[Kalyppso]

I saw the pop up just now and I'm shocked! I'm probably going to go through and put a bunch of projects on my PC ... I should have the ones I want already I guess ... but it is worrisome that should I need them in the future, they would no longer be hosted here ... and not all of them made it to the Nexus.

[MerAnne]

It is the old forum posts that I worry about. I just started modding about a year ago and those old posts were crucial for me to figure out how to mod :-( It would be a real shame if they deleted them entirely.

[luna1124]

I think if they are in a group, they will still be there. but I know what you mean. I am looking something up just about every day. It is like a tsunami is going to hit, scramble and save what you can.

[luna1124]

I'll probably copy a bunch of the forum posts to text files. I wish they would have given us a little more time.

[MerAnne]

  I guess I will be doing the same.  Maybe screenshots for a few of them.

I will miss the old forum posts that I'll no longer be able to find through google search (because BSN search wasn't that useful).  I will miss being able to limit who could see new projects and test files.  I will miss some of the people (you're on that list luna

There are some things that I won't miss at all and the current Bioware/Jessica decision is on that list.

[dr.drummie]

uhhh...
at least hope that they let wiki and forum alone..

[Yara C.]

dr.drummie wrote...

uhhh...
at least hope that they let wiki and forum alone..

I hope the same. At least it is not yet announced that changes will effect the wiki and the forum.
For now, it is sad enough to loose access to valuable resources and information from blogs and projects.
(:

[AmstradHero]

They're not going to remove the wiki, are they? I still use the wiki... holy crap BioWare, PLEASE don't remove the wiki...

[Sunjammer]

I raised the question of the wiki in the BSN Changes thread but I think it got overlooked. I noticed MerAnne raised it again (thanks) so hopefully it will get noticed (and hopefully they won't say "oh, we'd forgotten about the wiki - no game content discussion there - nuke that too"). In the meantime I have PM'ed Jeff Rousell about it (since Jessica isn't on my friends list) and asked him to let me know what, if anything, they are proposing to do with the wiki.

Assuming Jeff replies I'm hopeful that a) he'll confirm that the wiki will be preserved or he'll work with me to migrate it to another site or c) I can actually export the wiki content using my administrator privileges. In addition to the largely redundant dalexicon.net domain I also own the datoolset.net domain and currently I just have that pointing to the current Dragon Age Toolset Wiki. If it is necessary we should be able to migrate/recreate the wiki there.

My bigger concern is that there is a lot of content that never made it into the wiki and there are lots of useful projects that have never made it into Nexus. Now we could **** and moan about the impending changes and/or hope and pray EA change their mind however I think that as a community we take a more positive and proactive approach and look at how we can save as much of this content as we can.

I was suggest using the old DAFTI group and setting up a new project to tackle it but EA would only go and lock it on the 19th!



So some things to think/talk about:
- what do we need to save, how can we save it and what resources do we have for saving it?
- what will we need to support the Dragon Age Modding community going forward?
- if we end up with a piecemeal solution (i.e. BSN Forums & Groups + DA Wik + DA Nexus/dropbox/skydrive/personal sites/etc for mods + flickr/picasa/etc for albums + something for project) how do we bind all of that together to make a community?

Modifié par Sunjammer, 14 novembre 2013 - 08:56 .

[MerAnne]

Based on the recent actions on the part of Bioware, I think that 'we' should have a plan so that the toolset wiki and mods are 'protected' regardless on any future actions on the part of Bioware. 

Sunjammer, you questions are short and the words are easy to understand, but that doesn't make them easy to answer.  I'll be starting my list (using old fashioned paper/pen) at work today so that I can post something at least semi-coherent.

[ZolaWeston]

Hi guys,

I am really worried about losing the toolset wiki as it is invaluable for a Machinima project I am trying to do. I would very much like to help if I can.

I'd say the following definitely needs to be retained in some shape or form:

DA Wiki
DA Single Player Resources (which is a project if I remember correctly)

There are also numerous little nuggets of information dotted around - I notice DahliaLynn has made a lot of good reference posts in the forums to much of it - but I think there is more beyond that which probably hasn't been indexed at all.

I do think that the best way to support the community going forward is to make the information easy for people to access in a central place. (Easier said than done, however!) ... maybe find a community site package that does a similar job to bioware's site? I am not sure. I've looked at sites like Wikidot in the past for personal projects but don't know if it would suit our purposes.

I guess the other factor with any storage is cost and the manpower it would need to maintain the backup locations - but this would depend on what we hope to achieve - retaining and backing up of old data is one thing - building a community around that is another thing again.

Anyway those are my initial thoughts to add to the mix 

Modifié par ZolaWeston, 15 novembre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Sunjammer]

I'll need to parse the list but I suspect a few of the item's in this Brainstorming: What Already Exists? thread probably only exist in BSN project and blogs.

And because I stumbled upon it just now: DA Normal Map and Height Map Converter (project).

[luna1124]

I hope the groups will be safe for now. I downloaded everything from the projects that was released and of interest to me, now or in the future. I also saved the one mentioned above, NormalMapConverter by Skuid v1.5.zip
I'll start a word-pad notebook with stuff to save. Let me know of anything in particular you want me to keep.

[luna1124]

changed my mind about the link that was posted:blink:

Modifié par luna1124, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:04 .

[Sunjammer]

I'm looking into free cloud storage in case we need it. I'll edit the lists as I look into each ...

Reviewing:

• TeamDrive: 2GB free
• Dropbox: 2GB free (+500MB per referral (up to 8GB))
• wuala: 5GB free
• SkyDrive: 7GB free
• Google Drive: 15GB free
• Copy: 20GB for free (15GB + 5GB for installing app) (+5GB per referral)

Rejected:

• CloudMe: 3 GB free (+500MB per referral (up to 8GB)) but has 150MB file size limit
• Cloud Drive: 5GB free (2GB file size limit) but files can only be shared with 8 devices
• Box: 10GB free but has a 250MB file size limit

Modifié par Sunjammer, 15 novembre 2013 - 09:36 .

[luna1124]

Google Drive looks promising.

[Sunjammer]

One of the things we did when the Toolset Wiki's software was being updated was to add two additional and, as yet, unused namespaces. I originally planned to move all the Community Contest stuff into the new "Contest" namespace and move project specific content into the new "Community" namespace.

For anyone unfamiliar with namespaces they are just a way of segregating content within a wiki. Normally all of your articles reside in the default "main" namespace (which doesn't have to use its prefix); their corresponding discussion pages reside in the "Talk" namespace; any files you upload can reside in the "File" namepace; help pages reside in the "Help" namepace; and so on.

Anyway it occurred to me that we could potentially hijack the Community namespace for reposting blogs; tutorial projects; etc. anything that we don't want to lose.

This is, of course, assuming that the wiki will remain or can be saved.

[luna1124]

This is just for the Dragon age stuff? Or should ME blogs be saved also?

[Sunjammer]

luna1124 wrote...

Google Drive looks promising.

It has the advantage of integrating with all of the other Google products i.e. Google+, Picasa, Google Docs, Google Communities. However this may also be a disadvantage as the 15GB shared between all those.

It may be possible to take advantage of Copy's referal process to run up a huge allowance for free. Also it allows 5 users which I hope means 5 people that can upload to the same cloud location (which would be good for us) rather than something like Amazon where sharing is limited to 8 devices (or users).

luna1124 wrote...

This is just for the Dragon age stuff? Or should ME blogs be saved also?

It is the Dragon Age Toolset Wiki so it really should be restricted to Dragon Age stuff.

Modifié par Sunjammer, 15 novembre 2013 - 10:27 .

[luna1124]

Okay, grabbed quite a few blogs from BSN, and discovered there are a lot more on other sites. Which is a good thing. Most of the people here could save their own blogs, hopefully.
I'll search a little more tonight and save any that look interesting.

[ZolaWeston]

Sunjammer wrote...

One of the things we did when the Toolset Wiki's software was being updated was to add two additional and, as yet, unused namespaces. I originally planned to move all the Community Contest stuff into the new "Contest" namespace and move project specific content into the new "Community" namespace.

For anyone unfamiliar with namespaces they are just a way of segregating content within a wiki. Normally all of your articles reside in the default "main" namespace (which doesn't have to use its prefix); their corresponding discussion pages reside in the "Talk" namespace; any files you upload can reside in the "File" namepace; help pages reside in the "Help" namepace; and so on.

Anyway it occurred to me that we could potentially hijack the Community namespace for reposting blogs; tutorial projects; etc. anything that we don't want to lose.

This is, of course, assuming that the wiki will remain or can be saved.

Potentially stupid question - I take it that the current toolset wiki is dependent upon bioware forums at the moment (or connected to bioware's site)..?  Is there no (free or low cost) way to create an independent wiki that the data from the original wiki could be transferred to and then further built upon with the additional information from the blogs/projects as backups.

Unless I am misunderstanding something I assume these namespaces are still dependant upon bioware keeping the current setup?

(Sorry I'm not really up to speed with how wikis work )

[MerAnne]

Probably a bit late for this, but I typed into a text editor at work while I was thinking about.....

I've spent way WAY too much time spent in Project Management Training.  Everything that follows is my OPINION and is probably worth what BSN is paying me.  Oh, wait, they aren't paying me.  :)Keep that in mind.   I think the first step is to define the core goal and make sure that we take care of the 'must haves' before getting to obsessed with the 'it would be really really nice to haves'.  Prioritize, etc etc etc
 
Core Goal - Preserve and maintain the resources necessary to provide support for existing and future projects associated with Bioware games.
(does anyone have anything to add as a part of the core goal?)
 
We don't know that the toolset wiki will ever 'go away', but I suggest that we consider that Bioware/EA may decide to make the toolset wiki readonly and then phase it out at some point in the future (could be years, could be never). If we acknowledge this possiblity, we can make plans to preserve the toolset wiki that can be put into place immediately in the event that Bioware/EA does decide to phase it out.  I do NOT know of any plans to phase out the toolset wiki!
 
Within our Core Goal, I see the following goals (not necessarily in order):
1) preserve, maintain, and allow updates to the exiting toolset wiki
2) preserve and maintain the existing projects
3) preserve and make accessible existing blogs that are toolset/project related
4) preserve and make accessible existing forum posts that are toolset/project related
5) preserve and make accessible existing albums that are toolset/project related
 
It has been a long time since I worked directly with databases and xml, however, I believe that most/all of the current content could be copied/exported if Bioware allows this to be done.  However, we should consider how much we want to take on and prioritize when we want to take it on.  Bioware/EA has not indicated any immediate plans to delete content so we do not want to overreact and commit to more than we can achieve.  We may want to limit how much of the blogs, forums, and albums we try to preserve - I am throwing the suggestion that we preserve some part of each of these.  If the decision is that we can't or shouldn't take these on, I have no issue with the decision.  But I would rather decide that something is not in scope for the project rather than assume that no one thinks these are important.
 
Goals that we should consider after preserving the existing toolset/project related content has been addressed (not necessarily done, considered and planned):
1) area to load project files for testing, including access control limiting access to those individuals that the mod author has identified as testers.
2) forum(s) for discussing projects and modding
3) area for posting screenshots
4) ???????
 
I tend to do a lot of planning, but it means that I don't have to do as many redesigns or try to cobble things together at the last minute to try to make them work because the initial design was flawed. (as often, no plan of mine is perfect!)  The only things that we may need to implement in the 'near' future are the final set of 'goals'.  However, if we plan based on the first set of 5 goals, I hope we would have a solution that addresses both our current needs and potential long term needs.  We do have Nexus as an interim solution.  I don't prefer it for new mods, but it is available.  And maybe Nexus will be open to the concept of providing the ability to limit access to new projects so they can be tested.  We won't know until we ask (if we want to go this direction).
 
I know little/nothing about actually setting all of this up, costs, etc.  I hope that this has helped one or two people focus so that we can prioritize what needs to be done and when it needs to be done.

And for those of you who fell asleep while reading this, it was the most exiting part of my day. Sad, isn't it
 

[Challseus]

Wait, what? Who, what, where? Sigh... Can anyone link me to a post, or whatever way they learned of impending changes?

EDIT - Nevermind, I just found this: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/17562621

Modifié par Challseus, 16 novembre 2013 - 12:42 .

[Sunjammer]

ZolaWeston wrote...

Potentially stupid question - I take it that the current toolset wiki is dependent upon bioware forums at the moment (or connected to bioware's site)..?  Is there no (free or low cost) way to create an independent wiki that the data from the original wiki could be transferred to and then further built upon with the additional information from the blogs/projects as backups.

Unless I am misunderstanding something I assume these namespaces are still dependant upon bioware keeping the current setup?

The Toolset Wiki is currently hosted by BioWare but it isn't strictly part of BSN although it does use the same user authentication.

We could host an independant Toolset Wiki (in fact it was something that some of us were looking into a couple of years ago before BioWare created a community administrator). And we could use the data from the current wiki but it would involve a quite a bit of work as there isn't a magic "export the whole wiki" button so we would have to export each category and any pages that are uncategorized. Then we have to import all these XML files into the new wiki. This is something that sort of been done with www.dalexicon.net (albeit I created the xml files for all the script functions and then imported them into both sites).

The good news is that Jeff has replied to my PM and said that the toolset wiki is not affected by the recently announcements so, for the time being, we shouldn't have to worry about the wiki vanishing. And should that change Jeff has said he'll let me know so we can work out how to transfer it.