35 réponses à ce sujet

[Snottling]

I've never seen it in action. I Always thought it was the old PW I was playing on that had an issue, but now I understand that it's not working. At all. 

Is there a way to fix it?

Thanks! 

[WhiZard]

It works, and is used by the standard beholder creature. It is implemented by a special AI script but only affects those with four levels in a spell casting class, and will not be applied if there are other negative effects on the target (technically the list of negative effects is limited to the more major ones).

Modifié par WhiZard, 14 novembre 2013 - 02:13 .

[Snottling]

Granted, after some testing I see it works, but only after possessing the beholder in DM client and manually firing the cone.

Why doesn't the beholder fire the cone on its own?
I've tried with multiple caster classes of 4th or higher level, but it just wont fire.
Also, the standard beholder hasn't even got the antimagic cone in Special Abilities tab. You have to add them yourself, which makes me believe that either they're too dangerous to the casual player, or they are bugged somehow.

Either way, I can't get it to fire the cone by itself. Why is that?

Thanks!

[Shadooow]

Snottling wrote...

Granted, after some testing I see it works, but only after possessing the beholder in DM client and manually firing the cone.

Why doesn't the beholder fire the cone on its own?
I've tried with multiple caster classes of 4th or higher level, but it just wont fire.
Also, the standard beholder hasn't even got the antimagic cone in Special Abilities tab. You have to add them yourself, which makes me believe that either they're too dangerous to the casual player, or they are bugged somehow.

Either way, I can't get it to fire the cone by itself. Why is that?

Thanks!

they dont have to have it in ability tab, they can use it nevertheless its special AI whats control this, do you have some custom AI installed perhaps? by default they does this so something is wrong...

[Snottling]

The only custom thing going on is Q-Necron's rays.

[Shadooow]

Snottling wrote...

The only custom thing going on is Q-Necron's rays.

well Im using his modification too and dont have this issue but I also modified his code a bit, try to remove it temporary from override/module if it solves the issue and post results

[WhiZard]

Even when manually assigned it works. G'Zhorb (a standard creature that has it assigned as a special ability and not part of his special AI) will use it.

[FunkySwerve]

Snottling wrote...

Granted, after some testing I see it works, but only after possessing the beholder in DM client and manually firing the cone.

Why doesn't the beholder fire the cone on its own?
I've tried with multiple caster classes of 4th or higher level, but it just wont fire.
Also, the standard beholder hasn't even got the antimagic cone in Special Abilities tab. You have to add them yourself, which makes me believe that either they're too dangerous to the casual player, or they are bugged somehow.

Either way, I can't get it to fire the cone by itself. Why is that?

Thanks!

Make sure you're using x2 ai. It's the ai that immplemented the beholder special scripts, iirc. Older ai doesn't handle them.

Funky

Modifié par FunkySwerve, 14 novembre 2013 - 03:55 .

[Shadooow]

FunkySwerve wrote...

Make sure you're using x2 ai. It's the ai that immplemented the beholder special scripts, iirc. Older ai doesn't handle them.

nope this is not true, only script that is more than call to the base is x2_def_spawn where is some support for horses from 1.69 and variable check to modify number of attacks which is used only by few monsters

[FunkySwerve]

Rather than waste time arguing with you, I'm just going to post code.

//::///////////////////////////////////////////////
//:: Custom Beholder AI
//:: x2_ai_behold
//:: Copyright (c) 2003 Bioware Corp.
//:://////////////////////////////////////////////
/*
    This is the Hordes of the Underdark campaign
    Mini AI run on the beholders.

    It does not use any spells assigned to the
    beholder, if you want to make a custom beholder
    you need to deactivate this AI by removing the
    approriate variable from your beholder creature
    in the toolset
*snip*

Funky

[Snottling]

Thank you everyone for your replies!

Here's my findings so far:
Rather than disabling Q-Necron's rays, I created a new module with four different types of beholders on the map.

Then, I created an 18th level sorcerer, buffed him, and strolled up to the first beholder, cast an AoE spell on the Tyrant and just let the PC take a beating, while watching for antimagic cones. When the first beholder died from the AoE spell, I went to the next one and just stood there, whilst being pummeled by eye rays. 
I did this over and over again.

In all of the two hours I tested, I saw ONE (1) antimagic cone and it was on the beholder NOT equipped with the cone. This beholder was not attacked by an AoE spell either.

All of this on a standard module with no custom material at all.

I just don't get it.

Thanks!

[Shadooow]

FunkySwerve wrote...

Rather than waste time arguing with you, I'm just going to post code.

Funky

what has this to do with x2 ai :innocent:? Yes beholders has special AI script that is triggered by AI engine, but it does not need x2_def_* scriptset to work.

Snottling wrote...

Thank you everyone for your replies!

Here's my findings so far:
Rather than disabling Q-Necron's rays, I created a new module with four different types of beholders on the map.

so you wasted time, you have custom content and thats Q-Necron rays, if you want to solve it and fix it you have to temporary remove this from your module/override whereever you have it.

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 15 novembre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Snottling]

My point by making the test module was to see if the cone works properly in a standard environment - which I dare say, it does not, as it only fired one time in two hours.

Modifié par Snottling, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:06 .

[Shadooow]

Snottling wrote...

My point by making the test module was to see if the cone works properly in a standard environment - which I dare say, it does not, as it only fired one time in two hours.

ok

I see, so how did you installed Q-Necron rays then? imported from erf to module?

[FunkySwerve]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

FunkySwerve wrote...

Rather than waste time arguing with you, I'm just going to post code.

Funky

what has this to do with x2 ai :innocent:?

Check the prefix, pumpkin.

OP, I'm not sure if this is the problem, as I'm unfamiliar with the Q-Necron code you're using, but to reiterate, I would check to see if you're using the x2 ai for beholders. In Creature Properties, in the Advanced tab, click the Variables buttom, and look for a variable of type string, named:

X2_SPECIAL_COMBAT_AI_SCRIPT

with a value set to:

x2_ai_behold

If not, try setting it, and see if that doesn't fix your issue.

Funky

[Snottling]

It's already set, Funky. But thanks anyway.

Yes, I imported the ray.erf to the module, but seeing that the cone rarely fires in a standard Environment, I Think we can rule out Q-Necron's rays as the culprit and simply accept how it is now. - Rare antimagic cones.

[Shadooow]

you wrote:

FunkySwerve wrote...

Make sure you're using x2 ai. It's the ai that immplemented the beholder special scripts, iirc. Older ai doesn't handle them.

Funky

So I understood it that you want to advice the OP to use the x2_def_* script set. I cant see another way to interpretation since you mentioned the "old AI" doesnt handle the special scripts. That is not true and while beholders by default have x2_def_ script set, it is not needed and actually I would recommend to everyone get rid of the x2_def scripts from all monsters since they just eat more instructions for almost no extra features.

To the OP: if you are willing to test my unofficial patch it improves and corrects beholders AI a lot. Since you claim to have no overrides and made new module I guess that what you see is simply standard behavior.

[WhiZard]

Rare?  I can get them going quite often.  If your not buffing yourself with things to dispel, the AI is not going to reciprocate with an anti-magic cone.  The technical details of how this specific AI works are posted on the wiki.  Read this so you know what is intended, instead of continually claiming that it is broken.

[Snottling]

Well, I had a level 18 sorcerer fully buffed running around casting AoE spells. I am merely stating what I saw - one cone for two hours.
I was just wondering if it was a known issue.

[WhiZard]

And did you rebuff after you were stripped?

[FunkySwerve]

Snottling wrote...

It's already set, Funky. But thanks anyway.

Yes, I imported the ray.erf to the module, but seeing that the cone rarely fires in a standard Environment, I Think we can rule out Q-Necron's rays as the culprit and simply accept how it is now. - Rare antimagic cones.

Next up, try setting this variable up to 100, if it isn't:

X2_L_BEH_MAGIC

(int)

Lower values make the ai more prone to do things other than using magic, as you might guess from the name.

Funky

[FunkySwerve]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

you wrote:

FunkySwerve wrote...

Make sure you're using x2 ai. It's the ai that immplemented the beholder special scripts, iirc. Older ai doesn't handle them.

Funky

So I understood it that you want to advice the OP to use the x2_def_* script set. I cant see another way to interpretation since you mentioned the "old AI" doesnt handle the special scripts.

Then I'll chalk it up to difficulty with language on your part, or ambiguity on mine. I just wanted to make sure he had the special ai set to fire, per my above post. My assumption, though I didn't bother to check, as I'm trying to help someone, not writing a dissertation, is that nw_ ai doesn't check those vars. I know for a fact it didn't at one point, but it didn't matter for the advice I was giving. That's why I said 'older' ai, rather than specifying a particular ai - a lot of mods, like HG, have legacy code modifying the scripts away from vanilla, so even if the various nw ais were updated to check for x2 vars when x2 was released, it wouldn't matter. Again, none of that seems terribly relevant to the OP's issue, so I didn't bother posting it. In the future, if you try a little harder to read my posts in a context that makes sense, you'd likely save us both some time.

Further, what you say about x2 ai isn't true. It's a marked improvement over older ai and even a lot of custom ais. We ran some pretty extesive tests before settling on one to modify, and it was considerably 'meaner' than either nw_ ais or j_ai (Jasperre's, with either one or two 'r's, I can never remember, post compile-fixes). Again, though, we have a couple legacy scripts modded way back when, so your milage may vary.

Funky

[WhiZard]

FunkySwerve wrote...

Snottling wrote...

It's already set, Funky. But thanks anyway.

Yes, I imported the ray.erf to the module, but seeing that the cone rarely fires in a standard Environment, I Think we can rule out Q-Necron's rays as the culprit and simply accept how it is now. - Rare antimagic cones.

Next up, try setting this variable up to 100, if it isn't:

X2_L_BEH_MAGIC

(int)

Lower values make the ai more prone to do things other than using magic, as you might guess from the name.

Funky

Given the OPs rarity (once in two hours) and that a deficiency in eye rays was not mentioned, I doubt this is the case.  What I think the OP is experiencing is eye ray attacks without the antimagic cone.

[Shadooow]

FunkySwerve wrote...

Next up, try setting this variable up to 100, if it isn't:

X2_L_BEH_MAGIC

(int)

since beholders use special AI script this variable is not used, it is used only when creature runs standard AI script

As for your suggestion, I read that carefully, your advice was useless and what you said was incorrect and could cause confusion not to mention wasted time. Legacy includes? Seriously you are trying to mask your wrong suggestion to this? I don't think OP module uses modified scripts from version 1.23 but hey lets ask him.

[MagicalMaster]

FWIW, Funky, I also took your post to mean "use the x2_def_* stuff because it's needed to make the stuff work." And, by default, the x2_def_* files pretty much just call another script.

Now the scripts called by x2_def_* are likely leaner and meaner, but you can easily eliminate x2_def_* scripts.

That said, ShaDoOoW, his point about making sure that the actual beholder AI was getting called was quite relevant, even if he could have been far clearer. Older mods may be running the original AI scripts rather than the updated ones which don't call the special creature stuff.