130 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...
What did you have to say?

I don't recall the exact words, but there was something like "I couldn't let it end like this" and "I want to see our child." Neither of which captures the important aspect, though both of them are true in their way.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

It will SUCK if they end up using one of the following tropes for the Warden.

* Dropped a Bridge on Him
* Bus Crash
* Chuck Cunningham Syndrome

I shudder to think about it.  For example, Morrigan returns from the eluvian, but the Warden doesn't, just because they're eager to sweep him under the rug. 

[TheButterflyEffect]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
I just hope that she still loves the PC in spite of her coldness.

You mean Morrigan? She didn't come across as cold to me in Witch Hunt. I just regret I didn't have the option to answer as I wanted when she asked why I wanted to come: "I'm curious how this will all end. And I want to be with you. How could I not want to do something that satisfies both desires?"

Well, i haven't play WH myself yet. Just the scathing epilogue of Origins.

[Ieldra]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
I just hope that she still loves the PC in spite of her coldness.

You mean Morrigan? She didn't come across as cold to me in Witch Hunt. I just regret I didn't have the option to answer as I wanted when she asked why I wanted to come: "I'm curious how this will all end. And I want to be with you. How could I not want to do something that satisfies both desires?"

Well, i haven't play WH myself yet. Just the scathing epilogue of Origins.

I don't think anyone else here agrees with your odd definition of "scathing".

[TheButterflyEffect]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
I just hope that she still loves the PC in spite of her coldness.

You mean Morrigan? She didn't come across as cold to me in Witch Hunt. I just regret I didn't have the option to answer as I wanted when she asked why I wanted to come: "I'm curious how this will all end. And I want to be with you. How could I not want to do something that satisfies both desires?"

Well, i haven't play WH myself yet. Just the scathing epilogue of Origins.

I don't think anyone else here agrees with your odd definition of "scathing".

But why did she insist so steadfastly that she and the PC could never be together and she absolutely had to leave with their child forever, and he could never see any of them again?

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

MasterScribe wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

It will SUCK if they end up using one of the following tropes for the Warden.

* Dropped a Bridge on Him
* Bus Crash
* Chuck Cunningham Syndrome

I shudder to think about it.  For example, Morrigan returns from the eluvian, but the Warden doesn't, just because they're eager to sweep him under the rug. 

He or she got the calling early?

I guess that's better than "killed by a level 1 genlock", lol.

As for something else that I've seen in this thread... My warden was a nice guy, white knight, joke-cracking, hero type who loved Morrigan dearly, so it bothers me when I see other players call her evil or immoral.  I don't know if you saw those scenes where she opens up and shows a bit of her heart, but clearly she is not the ***** that people claim she is.  As for her disapproval, most of that is only towards the beginning of the game.  Just take her out of the party when you say "Sure, we'll defend Redcliffe" and "Yes, Owen, we'll rescue your daughter."

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 15 novembre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Welsh Inferno]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

But why did she insist so steadfastly that she and the PC could never be together and she absolutely had to leave with their child forever, and he could never see any of them again?

Thats just her survivalist mentality at it again. She has a goal she wants to achieve & she is still conflicted on whether her love/friendship is a weakness. She is clearly upset about leaving if you are a friend or lover but feels it is best to achieve her goal. I understand that. I dont see how any of the epilogues are "scathing". My Warden made it clear to her that he would find her though.  

I agree with Ieldra on that I hope they dont "soften" her too muchin Inquisition. She would definately soften somewhat but it would be incredibly unbelievable if she is now the gaurdian of all that is good or some crap. Keep her complex morality.

so it bothers me when I see other players call her evil or immoral. I don't know if you saw those scenes where she opens up and shows a bit of her heart, but clearly she is not the ***** that people claim she is. As for her disapproval, most of that is only towards the beginning of the game. Just take her out of the party when you say "Sure, we'll defend Redcliffe" and "Yes, Owen, we'll rescue your daughter."

I deliberately keep her for parts where she dissaproves. It makes me giggle. Also, people will always have different opinions on characters. You shouldn't let it get to you that some random people you dont know dont like her. 

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:20 .

[Olivier_dehFanboy]

I say that BIOWARE should do like Sucker Punch. At the end of Infamous 2, it all came down to a democratic call to determine which ending was cannon. It sucks that we may never see the outcome of some of those choices, but we will never see the outcome of what it would be like if lelianna died. I'm gonna assume that everyone picked to do the ritual with Morrigan, so Bioware should go with that as cannon. Its just my opinion... i won't be upset if they cater to each choice in a lite-dismisive way, but i will be upset if they pull a Mass effect 3.

Modifié par Olivier_dehFanboy, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

Olivier_dehFanboy wrote...

I say that BIOWARE should do like Sucker Punch. At the end of Infamous 2, it all came down to a democratic call to determine which ending was cannon. It sucks that we may never see the outcome of some of those choices, but we will never see the outcome of what it would be like if lelianna died. I'm gonna assume that everyone picked to do the ritual with Morrigan, so Bioware should go with that as cannon. Its just my opinion... i won't be upset if they cater to each choice in a lite-dismisive way, but i will be upset if they pull a Mass effect 3.

But what was her goal? To eventually possess her child's body, like Flemeth planned to do to her, and become an all powerful physical god? Yeesh, I guess it's true, the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 15 novembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[Angrywolves]

never believed that possession by Flemeth stuff.
More likely Morrigan just wants to use the child to gain power.

[Icy Magebane]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

As for something else that I've seen in this thread... My warden was a nice guy, white knight, joke-cracking, hero type who loved Morrigan dearly, so it bothers me when I see other players call her evil or immoral.  I don't know if you saw those scenes where she opens up and shows a bit of her heart, but clearly she is not the ***** that people claim she is.  As for her disapproval, most of that is only towards the beginning of the game.  Just take her out of the party when you say "Sure, we'll defend Redcliffe" and "Yes, Owen, we'll rescue your daughter."

Isn't this just deliberately creating the illusion that Morrigan would agree with your choices, or metagaming to get the highest approval score?  I think that to understand the character, you'd need to take into account everything we know about her morality.  Also, these scenarios extend well into the game, such the quest "Unrest in the Alienage."  Morrigan approves if you sacrifice the elves and accept the Tevinter slave trader's blood magic ritual, but disapproves if you refuse and kill him.  If you refuse the ritual but allow him to escape, there is no change.  However you interpret this, simply not bringing her along limits your perspective on who Morrigan is.  Knowing what will happen but ignoring this aspect of her character seems a bit worse...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 15 novembre 2013 - 09:35 .

[SgtSteel91]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I don't recall the exact words, but there was something like "I couldn't let it end like this" and "I want to see our child." Neither of which captures the important aspect, though both of them are true in their way.

To me, 'not letting it end like this' is sort of saying 'I want to be with you and see where this goes' but you just deny being in the dark and away from her. Or did you want that exact reason to be in the game?

[Welsh Inferno]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Isn't this just deliberately creating the illusion that Morrigan would agree with your choices, or metagaming to get the highest approval score?  I think that to understand the character, you'd need to take into account everything we know about her morality.  Also, these scenarios extend well into the game, such the quest "Unrest in the Alienage."  Morrigan approves if you sacrifice the elves and accept the Tevinter slave trader's blood magic ritual, but disapproves if you refuse and kill him.  If you refuse the ritual but allow him to escape, there is no change.  However you interpret this, simply not bringing her along limits your perspective on who Morrigan is.  Knowing what will happen but ignoring this aspect of her character seems a bit worse...

She doesn't dissaprove at all if you already have her approval high enough.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:10 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

Angrywolves wrote...

never believed that possession by Flemeth stuff.
More likely Morrigan just wants to use the child to gain power.

But how is she going to gain power? What kind of power?

IMO, this poor kid is going to end up rebelling against his mom for trying to use him... seriously, that's just awful.
 

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:13 .

[Icy Magebane]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

She doesn't dissaprove at all if you already have her approval high enough.

Really?  That sounds rather odd.  I don't remember approval ratings locking once they reached the max.

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

never believed that possession by Flemeth stuff.
More likely Morrigan just wants to use the child to gain power.

But how is she going to gain power? What kind of power?

IMO, this poor kid is going to end up rebelling against his mom for trying to use him... seriously, that's just awful.
 

Yup, just like Morrigan did... and so the cycle continues...  tragic, really.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:21 .

[Welsh Inferno]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

never believed that possession by Flemeth stuff.
More likely Morrigan just wants to use the child to gain power.

But how is she going to gain power? What kind of power?

IMO, this poor kid is going to end up rebelling against his mom for trying to use him... seriously, that's just awful.
 

Or she is just going to bring him up as a regular child. Or she has good intentions on this matter.

Speculation is fun. 


@Icy Yeah. She doesn't dissaprove at Haven at all either at high approval. Havent tested it anywhere else though. I should clarify, she mentions its worth thinking about but doesnt protest or dissaprove if you kill the slaver.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:24 .

[Icy Magebane]

Welsh Inferno wrote...
@Icy Yeah. She doesn't dissaprove at Haven at all either at high approval. Havent tested it anywhere else though.

So... this would imply that she actually does change?  I have to look into this... Morrigan has always baffled me.  I think I'll steer the Warden I'm currently working on in this direction so I can see for myself... I could create a save, blast through her approval with gifts and dialogue, and then take her to Redcliffe and see what happens.  It seems like this is something I'd remember, since I used to always romance her... but I haven't done that in a long time...

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

As for something else that I've seen in this thread... My warden was a nice guy, white knight, joke-cracking, hero type who loved Morrigan dearly, so it bothers me when I see other players call her evil or immoral.  I don't know if you saw those scenes where she opens up and shows a bit of her heart, but clearly she is not the ***** that people claim she is.  As for her disapproval, most of that is only towards the beginning of the game.  Just take her out of the party when you say "Sure, we'll defend Redcliffe" and "Yes, Owen, we'll rescue your daughter."

Isn't this just deliberately creating the illusion that Morrigan would agree with your choices, or metagaming to get the highest approval score?  I think that to understand the character, you'd need to take into account everything we know about her morality.  Also, these scenarios extend well into the game, such the quest "Unrest in the Alienage."  Morrigan approves if you sacrifice the elves and accept the Tevinter slave trader's blood magic ritual, but disapproves if you refuse and kill him.  If you refuse the ritual but allow him to escape, there is no change.  However you interpret this, simply not bringing her along limits your perspective on who Morrigan is.  Knowing what will happen but ignoring this aspect of her character seems a bit worse...

If you don't like metagaming, you can take her along... and you can raise her approval again anyway through acts of kindness towards her.  At any rate, her disapproval of you defending Redcliffe is nonsensical and illogical.  That's not pragmatism.  That's bad writing.  Same goes for rescuing the smith's daughter: You're heading that way anyway!  The utter stupidity of refusing to open the door and tell Valena to leave the castle is ridiculous.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:32 .

[Welsh Inferno]

I made an edit by the way. To clarify. This: "she mentions its worth thinking about but doesn't protest or disapprove if you kill the slaver"

[Icy Magebane]

@Neverwinter_Knight77 - Yeah, you couldn't even explain how saving Redcliffe would be a good idea. The situation is frustrating overall and makes Morrigan seem very short-sighted.

@Welsh Inferno - It's this kind of ambiguity and complexity that makes her so hard to figure out.  That's probably a good thing, since one-dimensional characters are boring by nature.  Unfortunately, it leaves me with an overall negative impression of her.  Plus, there is the fact that she approves of sacrificing a bunch of slaves, which... well, I have a hard time seeing that type of character as having "good intentions."  Maybe "greater good," but ultimately, Morrigan decides what the greater good is.  IMO, she's nice as long as you're useful to her (shrugs).

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 15 novembre 2013 - 11:39 .

[Welsh Inferno]

It would be interesting to see if she still disapproves at Redcliffe if you go there late in the game with high approval. I always go there early so haven't been able to see.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

never believed that possession by Flemeth stuff.
More likely Morrigan just wants to use the child to gain power.

But how is she going to gain power? What kind of power?

IMO, this poor kid is going to end up rebelling against his mom for trying to use him... seriously, that's just awful.
 

Or she is just going to bring him up as a regular child. Or she has good intentions on this matter.

Speculation is fun. 


@Icy Yeah. She doesn't dissaprove at Haven at all either at high approval. Havent tested it anywhere else though. I should clarify, she mentions its worth thinking about but doesnt protest or dissaprove if you kill the slaver.

Then why does she insist on raising it alone and away from humanity, just like her Mom? Badly enough to never let the kid meet its Dad, even if she is totally in love with him? Intentions sound fishy to me.

[Bardox9]

If your Warden romanced Morrigan and went with her through the Eluvian, then you will probably get a tiny mention like with Leliana in Exiled Prince. At most you might see a warrior/rogue/mage in the distance killing a swarm of demons or dark spawn and Morrigan saying something like "That's my man." or something. Whatever is said about the Warden and Hawk will most likely be unfulfilling. Try not to get your hopes too high.