14 réponses à ce sujet

[gauntz]

I really didn't get the whole Reapers vs. organics conflict in ME1. With the Geth, they are relatively simple and seemingly function lackingly alone. But the Reapers seem to have an AI advanced enough to be on par with or superior to with the brains of the so-far known races. With the technology available to Citadel races/Reapers, surely a reaper could "insert" itself into a cloned/generated organic body with muscles and tissue and "become" an organic, or vice-versa, an organic could control a robot, or even replace his body with a mechanic one (cyborg style.) Beyond natural evolution, is there any great things that seperate organics and synthetics? Seems to me that the whole "body of metal" thing is pretty negligible, at least from a philosophical standpoint.  

[Silensfurtim]

what i really want to know is who made the reapers lol

[stillnotking]

They're just machines, and machines can be broken. 

Seriously, though, it's pretty clear that ME's "theory of mind" is functionalist, meaning there is no essential difference between synthetic and organic intelligences... although no one seems to have the ability (or the desire) to "convert".

[RyuKazuha]

The only difference there is, is in terms of procreation and evolution. Organics evolve and procreating based on genetic code, Synthetics evolve and procreate by engineering themselves and new individuals.



There is no significant difference on the philosophical concept of life though.

[armass]

LIFE

[Lightice_av]

The difference is purely philosophical. The Reapers believe that organic life is chaotic and needs to be kept under check, while the organic civilizations believe that synthetics can grow in strength and intelligence too fast and subjugate the slower organics with impunity. Both sides have a point, but both are also seriously overreacting.

[Forest03]

According to the in-game lore, the Geth originated out of the A.I. designed by the Quarians. I couldn't find any clues as to the origin of the Reapers, but there could be a similar story behind their construction. I have a theory that the Protheans, as advanced as they were, were able to design an AI far more advanced than the Geth; and just as the Quarians were nearly wiped out by the Geth, the Protheans were exterminated by their own machines.



As for the Reapers themselves and why they were invading, their purpose was to harvest current technology and wipe out all organic races. Likely, this was out of fear that technology throughout the universe would inevitably advance beyond their own, and once discovered, the Reapers would be wiped out - since technically, they are rogue AI.



But... that's just an extrapolation. ME2 might give us a bit more background story to all the races / machines.

[Veemel]

Forest03 wrote...

According to the in-game lore, the Geth originated out of the A.I. designed by the Quarians. I couldn't find any clues as to the origin of the Reapers, but there could be a similar story behind their construction. I have a theory that the Protheans, as advanced as they were, were able to design an AI far more advanced than the Geth; and just as the Quarians were nearly wiped out by the Geth, the Protheans were exterminated by their own machines.

According to in-game lore, the cycle of extinction has happened several times, so the Protheans did not create the Reapers. The rest is possible, but on this point... Sten?

Sten: "No!"

[Forest03]

Personally, I wouldn't trust Sten's opinion on anything. He can't even tell the difference between males and females. Oh, that's right! Female's can't fight. Therefore, my character can't possibly be a female.



But yeah, you're right. I forgot about the cycle. Still, it's quite possible that the Reapers are "a weapon that got out of control." I can't wait to see if they re-emerge in ME2. Any word on this at all? I haven't read much ME2 news as I've been quite occupied with DA:O.

[Zaxares]

It's speculated that the Collectors (which seem to be the primary antagonist race in ME2, as the Geth were in ME1) are working for the Reapers in some way, but as far as I know, no concrete evidence for the return of the Reapers has been given.



But going back to the original question, the primary cause of conflict between organics and synthetics appears to be one of resources and, for lack of a better term, ideology. Both races need space and resources to expand and grow, but any similarities end there. Despite the vast differences between them, organic races all share a few common goals. They need to eat, to breathe, to sleep. They seek pleasure, happiness and personal fulfillment. They have a shared platform of basic needs and goals to which they can all relate to.



Synthetics have no such needs and goals. They do not need to eat, so the idea (and the experience) of food and hunger is completely alien to them. They do not need to sleep, so the thought of spending several hours each day resting probably comes across as being incredibly inefficient and wasteful to them. As far as we know, they do not feel emotion, so they cannot comprehend the feelings and urges that drive us organics. Pride, fear, desire... These things mean nothing to a synthetic.



So when you get two races together who require the same resources, but are totally unable to relate to each other in any way, conflict is inevitable, and diplomacy has no hope of resolving differences so vast.



I find it intriguing that Sovereign finds the Geth contemptible and pathetic, and I wonder if it's not because they're 'lower and imperfect forms of synthetic life', but perhaps because in their need and hunger for a greater purpose for their kind, in their veneration and worship of the Reapers, they have become more like the organic races they struggle against than to the epitome of cold, logical and emotionless existence that are the Reapers.

[zuluthrone]

When you surrender your flesh for a metal husk and digital brain, you have the curse of immortality. No longer do the concerns of short lived creatures matter at all. We can see a similar behavior from the Asari, whose long lifespans make them unable to appreciate the immediate concerns of other races, preferring a wait-and-see approach. But even our blue benefactors can still appreciate the significant threat of artificial lifeforms. For the intelligent machine, civilizations collapse and fall in seconds, bearing very little importance in the events of the universe. This is the greater threat of the lazarus project, something that will make the rich and elite of mankind fall victim to the same hubris of the reapers, seeing their brothers as pawns to continue their ensured perpetual existence.

Modifié par zuluthrone, 21 janvier 2010 - 12:01 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Simple really, one has hydraulic pressure, and the other needs meds, to lower the pressure.

[Hejhej1234]

Organics live, which means they can also die. Synthetics are eternal. If they break they can get repaired.



Converting to synthetics are the next logical step in evolution for every organic race.



Organics -> Cyborgs -> Robots (last step being converting the brain and "consciousness" into code, meaning if you die, you can be booted up in another body and live again.)



Also, in the long run the we can move from our planet-based societies and live in space, ouir bodies being spaceships. This is the stage in evolution at which the Reapers are.





Also, see my thread on my take of the Reapers:

http://social.biowar...4/index/1343169

[Karstedt]

Silensfurtim wrote...

what i really want to know is who made the reapers lol

****MASSIVE SPOILER****

Bioware made them. I can't be more specific than that at this time without jeopardizing the safety of my source.

[Hejhej1234]

Silensfurtim wrote...

what i really want to know is who made the reapers lol

According to me they built themselves, and still do. They started out as any organic race. They have just evolved way past us.