110 réponses à ce sujet

[Alien Number Six]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

I'm no gambler

The reason it will be back is to ensure players play the game and hopefully spend money

Many who can't stand the store see it for what it is and dispise it. Others have posted their displeasure over the store but still have said on other threads once their manifests where complete "I miss the little presents from the troll store." The store may not be honest to goodness gambling. However it does have the same effect on people. We all have heard every single crackpot suggestion involving ways to get what you want from the RNG store. Some make sense some do not but what they all have in common is these suggestions all sound like things you would hear from a seasoned gambler who has devised a system. I once heard a woman who played slot machines tell me she only played the machines that where in the back of the casino because the ones up front that where the most played where rigged to take your money. A friend of mine who plays poker at the same casino quits and cashes out if someone new comes to the table he is playing at. I even have a small system regarding the store. I have observed that the only thing you can count on regarding the store is this. Any pack that costs 99000 credits will give you two gold cards. The 60000 credit pack will give you one gold card. And finally the 20000 credit pack will give you one silver card and one gold card every once and a while. I have been given a Ultra Rare in every pack from 60000 credits up at complete random. Sure the PSP, Arsenal Pack, and Reserves Pack all have "chance of X" posted on them but in my experience the randomness of Ultra Rare's is total. 

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 15 novembre 2013 - 09:08 .

[pelojian]

saxybeast418 wrote...
For two, there are a ton of ways to enhance player engagement in the rng store. Let's say that they implemented some system (or systems) that convert something (total packs bought, excess experience, unwanted items, etc) into progress towards a guaranteed rare or ultra rare item. They could tune it so that it would take roughly the same amount of time to get ultra-rares as it would with just an RNG store... and yet, while the two systems would be functionally identical, player engagement would skyrocket, as there would be a visible indicator that progress is slowly but surely being made towards unlocking the next thing.

There is an incredible amount of potential for Bioware to improve their random pack system to make it even more addicting, while minimizing player aggravation as they progress through the unlocks.

hmm what about a system where you could only directly purchase level1 uncommons/rares/URs with restrictions e.g need x number of commons items to be able to purchase an uncommon item, X number of uncommon items to be able to purchase a rare etc.

they could do that while keeping the RNG packs and balancing the level items by the credit cost of them.

[Alien Number Six]

pelojian wrote...

saxybeast418 wrote...
For two, there are a ton of ways to enhance player engagement in the rng store. Let's say that they implemented some system (or systems) that convert something (total packs bought, excess experience, unwanted items, etc) into progress towards a guaranteed rare or ultra rare item. They could tune it so that it would take roughly the same amount of time to get ultra-rares as it would with just an RNG store... and yet, while the two systems would be functionally identical, player engagement would skyrocket, as there would be a visible indicator that progress is slowly but surely being made towards unlocking the next thing.

There is an incredible amount of potential for Bioware to improve their random pack system to make it even more addicting, while minimizing player aggravation as they progress through the unlocks.

hmm what about a system where you could only directly purchase level1 uncommons/rares/URs with restrictions e.g need x number of commons items to be able to purchase an uncommon item, X number of uncommon items to be able to purchase a rare etc.

they could do that while keeping the RNG packs and balancing the level items by the credit cost of them.

After looking through the Battlefield 4 wiki link Pearl posted I came away with this. Progression=Guns
Xp=Items. Items being camos, weapon accessories and other related stuff. 

[Excella Gionne]

I would like the RNG store back, but once we unlock a weapon, we can upgrade it using money instead, because I'd hate to unlock 9 more times after that. That would satisfy me more.

[GordianKnot42]

I was fine - to a certain extent - with the system as long as you were GUARANTEED a certain tier card. I played enough to max out all my Rares anyway. But a 5-8% just to get an UR card? Much less getting the one you want? Stingy and punitive.

[Lady Abstract]

I agree. Its all a psychological thing

[Tokenusername]

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...

I agree. Its all a psychological thing

[Lady Abstract]

Tokenusername wrote...

QU33N_ANG3L wrote...

I agree. Its all a psychological thing

Exactly 

[Maker MEDA]

 I dont know about ME4, but the RNG store is certainly back in the form of Batlefield 4 battle packs! lol.

How about that, more trolling by random generation then you ever want to be exposed to. Mahaha! 

[solidprice]

would like to see a mixed tier system for me4 imo, because i will admit the rng store dose ware down at you sometimes and would like to have some stuff unlocked through gameplay
*want a certain UR? start saving then =P*

[Tokenusername]

Frankly I don't find Battlefield to be reliable source material. Battlefield is by DICE, not Bioware. EA probably has a lot of influence over monetization methods, but that doesn't mean Bioware has no say. Bioware could potentially present other models that EA would agree to that differ greatly from what DICE gave to EA. There's no reason to assume that because the publisher is the same that the games will be designed the same.

[Lacika2000]

I agree with Dala Kaar: I play this game despite the RNG store.

Somehow the whole RNG idea does not sit in my head.

I understand the unknowing claim that some people buy packs with real money (like that chap who has burnt $300 and got totally pissed off by the drop rates). But, let's be honest about it, most of us don't spend too much, most likely nothing. First, because it is rather pricey. Second, because you just don't know what you get. And when it is about real money, a lot of us likes to know what you buy. Unless we don't want to buy and get stuff, but we really want to gamble.

So my biggest problem is the randomness, the gambling nature of the store. Not just because it is random/gambling, so to say that you buy something (with real money or with exp points) and you don't know what you will get, but because this aspect of the game is not stated on the packaging, saying that playing this game will include getting involved in gambling. Which is legally required, as far as I know, when someone is offering something that involves it. At least in some countries. You cannot just take someone's money and then give something you claim to be randomly generated, you will have to state this upfront. Have you guys seen something like this in the RNG store?

I did not. In many countries to be able to do what BW/EA does, you need a licence and proper warnings attached.

So I just can't come around in the logic department. First, they make is harder for people to actually have fun, second they make is really painstakingly difficult to get things, so by the time someone has a full manifest, will just turn it off for good, and third, who pays for all the server times we keep using to generate xp instead of paying with cash?

How does this make sense financially and is this actually legal??

[ComradeShepard7]

Lacika2000 wrote...

I agree with Dala Kaar: I play this game despite the RNG store.

Somehow the whole RNG idea does not sit in my head.

I understand the unknowing claim that some people buy packs with real money (like that chap who has burnt $300 and got totally pissed off by the drop rates). But, let's be honest about it, most of us don't spend too much, most likely nothing. First, because it is rather pricey. Second, because you just don't know what you get. And when it is about real money, a lot of us likes to know what you buy. Unless we don't want to buy and get stuff, but we really want to gamble.

So my biggest problem is the randomness, the gambling nature of the store. Not just because it is random/gambling, so to say that you buy something (with real money or with exp points) and you don't know what you will get, but because this aspect of the game is not stated on the packaging, saying that playing this game will include getting involved in gambling. Which is legally required, as far as I know, when someone is offering something that involves it. At least in some countries. You cannot just take someone's money and then give something you claim to be randomly generated, you will have to state this upfront. Have you guys seen something like this in the RNG store?

I did not. In many countries to be able to do what BW/EA does, you need a licence and proper warnings attached.

So I just can't come around in the logic department. First, they make is harder for people to actually have fun, second they make is really painstakingly difficult to get things, so by the time someone has a full manifest, will just turn it off for good, and third, who pays for all the server times we keep using to generate xp instead of paying with cash?

How does this make sense financially and is this actually legal??

The big difference between the multiplayer store and gambling is that here you are garunteed to get something of a certain rarity with a small chance of getting something of a higher rarity in each pack. This garuntee is why it used to be that you could get repeat rare character cards and now you end up getting level IV ammo, which are also clasified as rare, both of which meet the garuntee of what that pack will give you. This is more akin to using a gumball machine than gambling.

Modifié par ComradeShepard7, 17 novembre 2013 - 01:58 .

[sandboxgod]

Alien Number Six wrote...
 Like it or not it will be in the next game:)

I doubt it. I know I bounced because I got tired of RNG. Pretty sure RNG was just an experiment to see how well they could monetize this game. By the time the next Mass Effect game releases, they'll have better data from other EA games how to better monetize games.

Now that a lot of us know better there is no way in hell we'd put up with RNG again. It's an awful system and to be blunt- you've not given any reason why it should come back. Granted, you just simply don't access to the data (just like most of us former-current fans) to backup your claims with hard data.

Such as, demonstrate how much money MAss Effect 3 made post release versus other monetized EA games. Perhaps we could sift through quarterly reports and go about it in a professional manner.

Modifié par sandboxgod, 17 novembre 2013 - 04:24 .

[sandboxgod]

ComradeShepard7 wrote...

Lacika2000 wrote...

I agree with Dala Kaar: I play this game despite the RNG store.

Somehow the whole RNG idea does not sit in my head.

I understand the unknowing claim that some people buy packs with real money (like that chap who has burnt $300 and got totally pissed off by the drop rates). But, let's be honest about it, most of us don't spend too much, most likely nothing. First, because it is rather pricey. Second, because you just don't know what you get. And when it is about real money, a lot of us likes to know what you buy. Unless we don't want to buy and get stuff, but we really want to gamble.

So my biggest problem is the randomness, the gambling nature of the store. Not just because it is random/gambling, so to say that you buy something (with real money or with exp points) and you don't know what you will get, but because this aspect of the game is not stated on the packaging, saying that playing this game will include getting involved in gambling. Which is legally required, as far as I know, when someone is offering something that involves it. At least in some countries. You cannot just take someone's money and then give something you claim to be randomly generated, you will have to state this upfront. Have you guys seen something like this in the RNG store?

I did not. In many countries to be able to do what BW/EA does, you need a licence and proper warnings attached.

So I just can't come around in the logic department. First, they make is harder for people to actually have fun, second they make is really painstakingly difficult to get things, so by the time someone has a full manifest, will just turn it off for good, and third, who pays for all the server times we keep using to generate xp instead of paying with cash?

How does this make sense financially and is this actually legal??

The big difference between the multiplayer store and gambling is that here you are garunteed to get something of a certain rarity with a small chance of getting something of a higher rarity in each pack. This garuntee is why it used to be that you could get repeat rare character cards and now you end up getting level IV ammo, which are also clasified as rare, both of which meet the garuntee of what that pack will give you. This is more akin to using a gumball machine than gambling.

That depends though. Soemtimes the store can give you L4 ammo that you'd never use making it totally useless. I agree with the assestment that the RNG store is gambling completely

[ComradeShepard7]

sandboxgod wrote...

That depends though. Soemtimes the store can give you L4 ammo that you'd never use making it totally useless. I agree with the assestment that the RNG store is gambling completely

Level IV ammo is still classified as a rare item. The description for a Spectre Pack in the store is "The best equipment for the galazy's best operatives. Includes 5 random items or characters, with at least one rare or better." so when you buy one and get Level IV ammo you are getting something with exactly the "value" it says you will get and it will always give you exactly what it says it will. There is no possibility here for you to come out with a loss since you are simply making an exchange.

[Alien Number Six]

sandboxgod wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...
 Like it or not it will be in the next game:)

I doubt it. I know I bounced because I got tired of RNG. Pretty sure RNG was just an experiment to see how well they could monetize this game. By the time the next Mass Effect game releases, they'll have better data from other EA games how to better monetize games.

Now that a lot of us know better there is no way in hell we'd put up with RNG again. It's an awful system and to be blunt- you've not given any reason why it should come back. Granted, you just simply don't access to the data (just like most of us former-current fans) to backup your claims with hard data.

Such as, demonstrate how much money MAss Effect 3 made post release versus other monetized EA games. Perhaps we could sift through quarterly reports and go about it in a professional manner.

It will be back because many are addicted to chance.

[Alien Number Six]

The statement above has always been the point of this thread. I never said in any of my posts that so much money was made the store would be back. The addictive nature of chance is what is at play here.

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 17 novembre 2013 - 08:11 .

[DullahansXMark]

And let's not forget, some people actually LIKE the RNG store. I mean, to be honest, I USED to like it. It got awful when I started the Ultra-Rare hunt, because there's no guarantee you'll ever even GET an Ultra-Rare. Up until that point, I kinda liked once in a while not getting what I wanted, only to really like what I ended up getting instead. Plus, there was always a guarantee that EVENTUALLY you'd get what you wanted, as long as you kept playing, because eventually one of those gold cards will have to be what you wanted.

I can get why some people DON'T like this system, but that's the thing. SOME people like it. I don't account for everybody. You don't account for everybody. All they can do, is make a system they want to run with and hope their target audience likes it. Trying to appease everybody will only cause a trainwreck.

And no, I'm not necessarily advocating they keep the RNG store in the future. I just think a few people that vehemently hate the system could be brought back down to earth and realize that the system doesn't have to be changed just to suit their own needs. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad, and I'm getting that vibe from a lot of people posting here. (though I do think the system could use some improvement considering how impossible it can be to get an Ultra-Rare sometimes.)

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 17 novembre 2013 - 09:45 .

[Doni]

Hrm. Yeah, I might like the RNG store being back, but I hope it isn't the way to unlock EVERYTHING. I don't own and haven't played BF4, but I hear it has some sort of hybrid unlock system thing going on. That could be a good way to spice things up, rather than leaving the ENTIRE progression up to a lottery system that loses its novelty after like 50 hours.

In either case, for god's sake don't make people sink in like 600+ hours to unlock everything, especially if the gameplay is anywhere near as repetitive and conceptually basic as ME3.

Modifié par Scruffaluphagus, 17 novembre 2013 - 09:54 .

[DullahansXMark]

Scruffaluphagus wrote...

Hrm. Yeah, I might like the RNG store being back, but I hope it isn't the way to unlock EVERYTHING. I don't own and haven't played BF4, but I hear it has some sort of hybrid unlock system thing going on. That could be a good way to spice things up, rather than leaving the ENTIRE progression up to a lottery system that loses its novelty after like 50 hours.

In either case, for god's sake don't make people sink in like 600+ hours to unlock everything, especially if the gameplay is anywhere near as repetitive and conceptually basic as ME3.

I've sunk 619 hours, and I'm nowhere close to completion (in regards to Ultra-Rares). At this point I just play entirely for fun (and it's hard to say it's not extremely fun), pretending the Venom doesn't even exist.

I agree, it has to be updated for the next installment.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 17 novembre 2013 - 10:00 .

[Alien Number Six]

I agree DullahansXMark. The RNG model isn't bad but it needs some tweaking to be good. Some of the DLC items should have been ranked common and uncommon. The Supressor pistol performs like a common. The Krysae after the nerf could have been dropped to uncommon. I think that is the biggest issue with the RNG store. Items that you can get fairly easy from 5000 and 20000 credit packs are the smallest part of the manifest when some of the items from the rare pool perform like they should be ranked lower. The Geth Pulse Rifle for instance is a rare but performs like a common or uncommon.

[Doni]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Scruffaluphagus wrote...

Hrm. Yeah, I might like the RNG store being back, but I hope it isn't the way to unlock EVERYTHING. I don't own and haven't played BF4, but I hear it has some sort of hybrid unlock system thing going on. That could be a good way to spice things up, rather than leaving the ENTIRE progression up to a lottery system that loses its novelty after like 50 hours.

In either case, for god's sake don't make people sink in like 600+ hours to unlock everything, especially if the gameplay is anywhere near as repetitive and conceptually basic as ME3.

I've sunk 619 hours, and I'm nowhere close to completion (in regards to Ultra-Rares). At this point I just play entirely for fun (and it's hard to say it's not extremely fun), pretending the Venom doesn't even exist.

I agree, it has to be updated for the next installment.

I was basing it on my own experience, and estimating the hours for other players. I'm currently clocked at 739.5 hours, and I maxed my manifest less than 5 hours worth of games ago. This was like at least 3 weeks ago, and I've had zero drive to play anymore.

I had one good friend of equal experience/efficiency helping me crunch platinums at decent times. Obviously those with a consistent, efficient group would max their stuff a bit faster, but it's still a silly amount of time to unlock what amounts to little more than slight improvements to weapon stats.

[Tokenusername]

Alien Number Six wrote...

The Geth Pulse Rifle for instance is a rare but performs like a common or uncommon.

No.

[Alien Number Six]

Tokenusername wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

The Geth Pulse Rifle for instance is a rare but performs like a common or uncommon.

No.

I'm sorry if you think it's great but I used it for challenges and I felt it was lacking the stopping power to use on Gold and above. Perhaps you could give me a build that could change my mind Token.