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Can anyone give a positive mindset that justifies the endings?


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#151
Iakus

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ElSuperGecko wrote...

Four choices. One chance. Shepard can:

- Remember what his/her allies and friends are fighting for, and end the Reaper threat once and for all
- Assume the role of the Illusive man, and become the Reaper of Humanity
- Hand the Crucible's power to the Catalyst, allowing it to complete it's Grand Design
- Give up and simply wait for the inevitable

...what will YOU choose?


I find another way Image IPB

#152
FlyingSquirrel

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Obadiah wrote...

The creepy part of the Reapers is, what if all of those uploaded minds of the cycles with their knowledge of their own history and behavior, what if once they were made into beings of pure logic they came to the same conclusions as the Catalyst?


I don't think they would become beings of pure logic unless they were based on a harvested species that had been purely logical.

And I think the Catalyst's conclusions are only logical if being 100% certain that synthetics will never completely exterminate organics takes priority over literally every other consideration. Most species would probably just reject the notion of making that the top priority or of using Reaper harvests to prevent it.

iakus wrote...

Or the Reapers themselves are indoctrinated by the Catalyst.


I don't think they're indoctrinated per se, but I view their situation as somewhat similar to the geth and their diminished intelligence after the quarians attacked them in ME3, i.e. their perspective is limited. They can't truly consider the possibility that the Catalyst is wrong and that the cycles are unethical or unnecessary.

#153
ElSuperGecko

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iakus wrote...
I find another way Image IPB


you have altered the variables. ;)

#154
Iakus

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ElSuperGecko wrote...

iakus wrote...
I find another way Image IPB


you have altered the variables. ;)


I didn't alter them.  I just installed them and carry their banner Image IPB

#155
Wayning_Star

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Poor old Shep gets the orders from us arm chairs.. even though they'd like to call it a day, resurrection has a tendency to wear on a person.

OP, there is no "win-win' only the best guess scenario, that being genesis for lack of a better term... you see, the catalyst hasn't evolved at all...

#156
Zaalbar

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I find it very difficult to justify the endings unless I'm high on cannabis listening to Jimi Hendrix "All Along the Watchtower"
Synthesis starts to make all kinds of sick sense.

#157
Obadiah

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It's a pretty massive twist to throw at players at the end, and to expect players to accept in the moment of the game's climax. The Reapers are literally monsters born from our destruction, whose collective power grows from continuing that destruction, whose purpse is to destroy us, in an effort to maintain some cosmic value that Organic life itself should always exist.

Modifié par Obadiah, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:13 .


#158
Rasofe

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I got the Spiral Coils Theory of Evolution. It's not perfect but it does make two of the four endings deep... and well, the other two are Synthesis and Rejection.

#159
SlottsMachine

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Maybe they'll get it right in the movie.

#160
Wayning_Star

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Obadiah wrote...

It's a pretty massive twist to throw at players at the end, and to expect players to accept in the moment of the game's climax. The Reapers are literally monsters born from our destruction, whose collective power grows from continuing that destruction, whose purpse is to destroy us, in an effort to maintain some cosmic value that Organic life itself should always exist.


it would seem that the reapers were the/in effect "evolution" of the catalyst via organics in the MEU, starting with the Leviathan.
 
(trying to maintain a cosmic value?)..Image IPB

#161
Guest_tickle267_*

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it's vague enough so that it can be whatever you want it to be.

#162
spockjedi

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This is the best defense of the endings I've ever seen:
The Reaper’s Advocate: A Different Take on the Mass Effect 3 Ending
I still think it fails, but you're welcome to believe in that.

Modifié par spockjedi, 24 novembre 2013 - 06:45 .


#163
Rasofe

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I didn't actually know the Stargazer was voiced by Buzz Aldrin. But following the original ending, his speech really only made things worse.
After the EC... who knows, if that's how I was exposed to it originally.

#164
dorktainian

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you cant defend the endings because they are not endings. they raise more questions than they answer imo....especially the destroy ending. (here we go.....I can feel the nerdrage coming my way already)

Say what you want about the original ending (i can think of a fair bit myself) but it left us on a cliffhanger. I wonder if that was what Bioware were trying to do. So many Questions. So much hate.....rightly so. I dont think the EC improves it at all. for example 5 seconds for the normandy to get from the heat of the battle to shepard on earth = impossibru. 5 seconds. to get from space to being in a position to uplift shepderps collegues. Really? Did that answer the question of why the LI is on the normandy...well yep but it raised more questions, like why would sheps LI leave? Why would Javik leave having being sworn to destroy the reapers? Why would any of them leave? Why not fly a shuttle down to retrieve them? Why didn't they use cains against harbie?

oh well. The mass effect 3 ending is the gift that keeps on giving.

#165
Rasofe

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dorktainian wrote...

you cant defend the endings because they are not endings. they raise more questions than they answer imo....especially the destroy ending. (here we go.....I can feel the nerdrage coming my way already)

Say what you want about the original ending (i can think of a fair bit myself) but it left us on a cliffhanger. I wonder if that was what Bioware were trying to do. So many Questions. So much hate.....rightly so. I dont think the EC improves it at all. for example 5 seconds for the normandy to get from the heat of the battle to shepard on earth = impossibru. 5 seconds. to get from space to being in a position to uplift shepderps collegues. Really? Did that answer the question of why the LI is on the normandy...well yep but it raised more questions, like why would sheps LI leave? Why would Javik leave having being sworn to destroy the reapers? Why would any of them leave? Why not fly a shuttle down to retrieve them? Why didn't they use cains against harbie?

oh well. The mass effect 3 ending is the gift that keeps on giving.





That's the issue you take with the endings?
Shepard ordered Joker to pick them up and ordered the squad to leave. Probably because they'd just be a burden.
When Shepard gives an order, it is followed, by Javik, the Illusive Man and spacecraft alike. It's when the galaxy stops taking orders from Shepard that I take issue with, i.e. the Catalyst.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 03:28 .


#166
crimzontearz

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Put the game down and just hope the next installment us not marred by "art" and that Bioware will make that game for us chumps who are too dull to understand the ME3 endings in all their glorious and uplifting grimdarkness and high levelness

#167
Iakus

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crimzontearz wrote...

Put the game down and just hope the next installment us not marred by "art" and that Bioware will make that game for us chumps who are too dull to understand the ME3 endings in all their glorious and uplifting grimdarkness and high levelness


Or if you can, get the PC version and download MEHEM and/or the Citadel Epilogue Mod

#168
Rasofe

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It's easier to headcanon than to download a mod, you know.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 novembre 2013 - 03:49 .


#169
in it for the lolz

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iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Put the game down and just hope the next installment us not marred by "art" and that Bioware will make that game for us chumps who are too dull to understand the ME3 endings in all their glorious and uplifting grimdarkness and high levelness


Or if you can, get the PC version and download MEHEM and/or the Citadel Epilogue Mod

Or:
1.Put some moniez aside 
2.Sell your copies of Mass Effect
3. Add your saved moniez to what you got form selling your copies of Mass Effect. 
4. Buy some better games. 
5. ??? 
6. PROFIT!!!!Image IPB 

#170
Iakus

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Rasofe wrote...

It's easier to headcanon than to download a mod, you know.


Headcanon (my headcanon at least) needs cues to work with.  Vanilla ending and EC simply don't provide them.  All the indicators point towards something horrible.

#171
Iakus

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in it for the lolz wrote...
Or:
1.Put some moniez aside 
2.Sell your copies of Mass Effect
3. Add your saved moniez to what you got form selling your copies of Mass Effect. 
4. Buy some better games. 
5. ??? 
6. PROFIT!!!!Image IPB 


Thought about it.  But ultimately decided to keep the game as a cautionary reminder about being too trusting. 

Not that you can get much "moniez" from used PC games.

Modifié par iakus, 25 novembre 2013 - 03:59 .


#172
dorktainian

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Rasofe wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

you cant defend the endings because they are not endings. they raise more questions than they answer imo....especially the destroy ending. (here we go.....I can feel the nerdrage coming my way already)

Say what you want about the original ending (i can think of a fair bit myself) but it left us on a cliffhanger. I wonder if that was what Bioware were trying to do. So many Questions. So much hate.....rightly so. I dont think the EC improves it at all. for example 5 seconds for the normandy to get from the heat of the battle to shepard on earth = impossibru. 5 seconds. to get from space to being in a position to uplift shepderps collegues. Really? Did that answer the question of why the LI is on the normandy...well yep but it raised more questions, like why would sheps LI leave? Why would Javik leave having being sworn to destroy the reapers? Why would any of them leave? Why not fly a shuttle down to retrieve them? Why didn't they use cains against harbie?

oh well. The mass effect 3 ending is the gift that keeps on giving.





That's the issue you take with the endings?
Shepard ordered Joker to pick them up and ordered the squad to leave. Probably because they'd just be a burden.
When Shepard gives an order, it is followed, by Javik, the Illusive Man and spacecraft alike. It's when the galaxy stops taking orders from Shepard that I take issue with, i.e. the Catalyst.


nah the catalyst is down the rabbit hole time. theres more to the ending than following shepards orders. so many questions raised.  So many unanswered.  So much speculation that even a forum can still be discussing it so long after the games release without being able to draw a conclusion as to what happened.

#173
crimzontearz

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Yes Iakus

As a side note, the fact that I can only use the quick reply box on this forum is maddening

#174
Wayning_Star

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I like art...

#175
Rasofe

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iakus wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

It's easier to headcanon than to download a mod, you know.


Headcanon (my headcanon at least) needs cues to work with.  Vanilla ending and EC simply don't provide them.  All the indicators point towards something horrible.


Such as Shepard believing that EDI would die from Destroy?
Come on. She's just critically damaged (which is why she's not on site during the memorial scene) and some ass put up her name on the wall. When she's repaired Joker is gonna snap that guy's neck!

Headcannon is easy. The less of it, the less holes it will have. Mehem goes out of its way to change too much, so a huge part of your mind will always know you're doing headcannon.