StreetMagic wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Huh. Surprised at all the dislike. Personally, I enjoyed the mission- granted, I vastly prefer it when Kasumi is absent, same as most of the other ME2-cameo missions (which, by and large, are all pretty self-referential and more style over substance).
As far content, I thought it was a pretty decent example of a few concepts and points that were otherwise ignored in the game and would not have been included- how indoctrinated agents could be used by the Reapers (read- not canon fodder), the less brute-force aspects of the Reaper invasion, how the Hanar have any role in the war, and an actually applicable role for a Spectre as a special investigator, rather than as a special forces grunt.
Couldn't be bothered much by the flaws, since most of them (for me) were tied to the ME2 companion cameo aspects... which, as a rule, were all self-referential (as a major cameo role is bound to be) and more style over tough thinking (as was ME2's style). Given that this was also a small quest in its own right, and failing it for not being extensive enough doesn't really push my buttons.
I'm not accusing you of having Asperger's, but this might come off like it..
Yeah, that's totally not an incredibly offensive way to start off a difference of opinion.
but do you kind of devalue emotional and character based information (it seems like you're lumping all of that as just "style", and not appreciating the nuances it contains).
No, I don't. I just don't succumb to emotional appeals as easily as many people, and found that ME3's cameo quests often eclipsed solid stories and interesting delimmas for feel-good player call-backs of past friendship (which fails for me since I was never particularly interested or amused by the ME2 cast) and no-cost feel-good solutions that get in the way of my enjoyment of RPGs.
How are you with real people?
I'm generally pretty good. For example, if someone doesn't like the things about characters in fiction that I do, I don't raise a question of if they have a mental disorder.
Do you write off their sense of character or expressiveness as irrelevant and only wish them to relay things on a conceptual level?
Depends on the context, obviously. I work in a sober field in which professionalism and credibility is paramount. 'Sense of character' and 'expressiveness' can be Bad Things.
Anyways, there's still enough to salvage even in these cameos (Kasumi's still fun to interact with for a little bit at least).. But I'm coming from the point of view that the "style" is the "substance". I think the whole game needed much more, in fact. Citadel DLC remedied some of it, but in a sillier way than I'd like, personally (still cool though).
You're welcome to your tastes- I'll keep mine.
For me, the difference between substance and style is whether the focus (and the intended audience reception) is supposed to focus on
what the subject is about vers
us
how it is conveyed. Subject matter versus tone is the most common point. Both are legitimate reasons to enjoy something, but for someone who is less inclined to buy into emotional appeals or accept the author's intended reception, style doesn't substitute for an intellectual underpinning.
In the context of the Hanar Diplomat sidequest, given that Kasumi's role and content is almost purely additional instead of being mutually exclusive with the normal dialogue, there isn't much of a problem. Our token Spectre focuses on the points I find enjoyable (world building, investigation, backstory, a sympathetic professionalism at work), while Kasumi just hangs in the shadows doing nothing particularly important besides not particularly witty banter and explaining why she can't help this time (which isn't very convincing). It isn't until the resolution that Kasumi makes me miss out on something I enjoy, which is the snap-timing gut decision of whether to save the friendly person infront of me or save the distant planet. I enjoy the non-Kasumi delimma very much- not so much because it's a balanced delimma (one person versus a world), but rather because I appreciate the time-sensitive context (pressing rather than allowing an impartial decision), the emotional lever of balancing a sympathetic person infront of me versus a distant statistic, and the use of the interrupt mechanic (which in ME2 was always an ideal solution) to play a conditioned response against me. I enjoyed all of that far more than a character I don't find particularly interesting or compelling coming in to save the day, resolve both problems, and leaving me with more boring banter.
Of course, that's in a side-quest with little content exclusion. The epitome of my viewpoint is the difference in the Grissom Academy mission if you have Jack or not.
With Jack, I find myself playing a rather uninteresting shooter mission with pretty scenery in which Jack dominates all the extras so much that they exist as little other than a cheering section. The character interaction is forced, repetitive of points already established in ME2, and is generally more concerned with playing Jack up in a lack of progression I found unconvincing given ME2. Given I already found Jack to be so over the top and forced in ME2 that I was never a fan, a mission focused on 'Jack is a badass- nothing else matters' quite frankly bores me.
Without Jack? I get introduced to a new cast of individuals who, like the rest of the galaxy, are thrown way out of their depth and struggling to pull through. The fact that the story does then focus on them pulling through- on Shepard being an enabler rather than resolving every issue, on the students coming to terms with fear and killing and guilt at doing so, on Pressly stepping up as a leader ('Leaders don't guess.')- I found what had been a boring cruise through a Jack revenge fantasy replaced with a tension and drama that was completely lacking before. I felt far more attached to the students when they were struggling on their own, than I ever felt when Jack eclipsed them into a cheer section to be saved to demonstrate how awesome she was.
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 17 novembre 2013 - 12:57 .
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