253 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I think people are finally at the point where they can admit that bioware games aren't perfect! Or even 95% perfect!

I waited nearly two years for this moment!

You must have been living under a rock that whole time then; it's been almost three years since DA2.

Eleven years since NWN.

[Argentoid]

erezike wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

erezike wrote...

Linkenski wrote...

 ME3 is known to have the worst sidequests ever but this one takes the cake for me.

The Hanar homeworld, AKA. partailly the homeworld to the Drell is at stake and this quest is full of bad self-referential in-jokes and sillyness all around... and better/worse yet, that Hanar isn't even written to talk like a Hanar. It says "I have just uploaded it" and "you, blah blah blah"

Whatever happened to "this one" or "these ones"?

Why are all Mass Effect 3 sidequests so redundant!?

Im sorry mass effect 3? I don't think bioware created a sequel. you are probably confusing walters mass effect alternate universe with a real sequel.  

Oh, its the guy who wants to rewrite ME3. 

*psst* hey, dude, start rewriting ME2 first!

INB4

"HUEHUEHUE I LUV ME2! SO MANY PEEPOLE TO BANG! LE MIRANDA IS AWSUM! TALI TOO! MC WALTERS SUX! ALL HAIL DRU CARFISHIN LE MASTER OF STOREETELLING!"

mass effect 2 fits so well in the story. it would be a shame to throw it all away. the only big issue I have with me2 is the iff abduction scene... the small issues are garrus sniping scene from 26 meters(face palm) and saving mordin assistant from the batarians when you decided to kill them.(poor cutscene execution facepalm) 

I suppose the last two examples are equal to the hanar scene in terms of bad cutscene edit. I edited a movie once. its was only ten minute worth of film in the end. but we spent dozens of hours editing every little bit. cutting and chopping. I suppose that sometimes the cutscenes guys in bioware forget that less is more when wanting to show a decisive and quick soldier.
 

"Mass Effect 2 fits so well in the story"

Actually, no. ME2 clearly has no point. Instead, we just shoot things and solve meaningless daddy issues, when we could have found a way to solve the Reaper threat, like with the mass accelerator weapon found on Klendagon. Mass Effect 2 is how NOT to write a sequel. Cool characters and everything... but where's the plot? Why does Shepard have the same attitude of a toaster? He wakes up after two years being dead and three seconds later he says that his pistol doesn't have a thermal clip. How the hell does Shepard doesn't get pummeled into the ground after falling from orbit, or even why does after atmospheric reentry doesn't he desintegrate?

I don't know, but the whole "Garrus shooting from 26 meters" nitpick is one of the worst nitpickings I've heard. Sorry man, but it's like you tried to sound smart enough to be like "SEE? I CAN FIND INCOSISTENCES IN MASS EFFECT 2! I KNOW HOW TO WRITE A STORY!".

Modifié par Argentoid, 20 novembre 2013 - 12:08 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Ya, ME2 is my favorite installment of the series; the recruitment and loyalty missions, for the most part, are among my favorite Mass Effect moments (even though they are pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things) and Illium is my favorite hub zone. But good lord do I get a headache from rolling my eyes so much during the game's first hour and some of the subsequent bits.

[Excella Gionne]

I sacrificed the Hanar/Drell world!

[ImaginaryMatter]

johnnythao89 wrote...

I sacrificed the Hanar/Drell world!

Reasonable enough, the game doesn't build any emotional attachment to the place; outside of the fact that it's a habitable planet.

[Erez Kristal]

Argentoid wrote...


"Mass Effect 2 fits so well in the story"

Actually, no. ME2 clearly has no point. Instead, we just shoot things and solve meaningless daddy issues, when we could have found a way to solve the Reaper threat, like with the mass accelerator weapon found on Klendagon. Mass Effect 2 is how NOT to write a sequel. Cool characters and everything... but where's the plot? Why does Shepard have the same attitude of a toaster? He wakes up after two years being dead and three seconds later he says that his pistol doesn't have a thermal clip. How the hell does Shepard doesn't get pummeled into the ground after falling from orbit, or even why does after atmospheric reentry doesn't he desintegrate?

I don't know, but the whole "Garrus shooting from 26 meters" nitpick is one of the worst nitpickings I've heard. Sorry man, but it's like you tried to sound smart enough to be like "SEE? I CAN FIND INCOSISTENCES IN MASS EFFECT 2! I KNOW HOW TO WRITE A STORY!".

We are basing most of our plot on events that happened during mass effect 2. so Id hardly say it has not point. its up to the writers to step it up and base on the content that was created earlier. just because the writers of the original me3 decided not to follow any plot lines created before them doesn't make the plot of me2 pointless.
-thermal clip - the gun hes using has please insert thermal clip on it written in big letters.
- reentry speed  and not becoming a complete toast - terminal velocity, durable suit, and marines- safety measures, installed in suit) shepard renentry speed wasn't high enough since he/she was pulled to the planet due to the planet gravity. which means the speed was low.
-parts like garrus the top shot taking half a minute to shoot in broad day light from 26 meters. and then waiting for his target to leave... are much more immersion breaking than any other thing you can come up with. because they are part of bad cutscene making. the kind you see on c movies. there is not way a top sniper would do that. I mean you everyone can see garrus pointing the gun on that fella. and the all shepard involvement in that scene is ridiculous. these kind of how stupidity explain to you how garrus got his squad wasted on omega.

[Argentoid]

erezike wrote...

Argentoid wrote...


"Mass Effect 2 fits so well in the story"

Actually, no. ME2 clearly has no point. Instead, we just shoot things and solve meaningless daddy issues, when we could have found a way to solve the Reaper threat, like with the mass accelerator weapon found on Klendagon. Mass Effect 2 is how NOT to write a sequel. Cool characters and everything... but where's the plot? Why does Shepard have the same attitude of a toaster? He wakes up after two years being dead and three seconds later he says that his pistol doesn't have a thermal clip. How the hell does Shepard doesn't get pummeled into the ground after falling from orbit, or even why does after atmospheric reentry doesn't he desintegrate?

I don't know, but the whole "Garrus shooting from 26 meters" nitpick is one of the worst nitpickings I've heard. Sorry man, but it's like you tried to sound smart enough to be like "SEE? I CAN FIND INCOSISTENCES IN MASS EFFECT 2! I KNOW HOW TO WRITE A STORY!".

-thermal clip - the gun hes using has please insert thermal clip on it written in big letters.

Oh my god. Ok, I clearly envy your reading comprehension (not). First things first, I was referencing Shepard's attitude toward resurrection: He wakes up after 2 years being dead. Ok, unerstand now? Good!  Where's the emotions he/she feels after losing his own life and being born again? That doesn't happen! He/She just wakes up and the first words to come out of his/her mouth are "This pistol doesn't have a thermal clip!".

I would have liked to see something like this. At least something

- reentry speed  and not becoming a complete toast - terminal velocity, durable suit, and marines- safety measures, installed in suit) shepard renentry speed wasn't high enough since he/she was pulled to the planet due to the planet gravity. which means the speed was low.

Yo dawg, basic physics. Plus, not even the freaking codex states that "magic safety measures" can save a marine from falling from space. Where the hellPlease, for the love of god, stop making up fan ******. The planet gravity was 0.85 G, yet you can still get pulverized. Make the math.

Let's couple the fact that Shepard had a suit rupture, ran out of air in space, their entire respiratory system was vacuumed, then by filled with gaseous ammonia and methane, while whatever organic material wasn't either melted off by the gases, and didn't get pulverized on impact, would then be crystalized by the cold temperatures of the planet -(22 C.) Per se, he got smashed into ice at thousands of miles an hour.

-parts like garrus the top shot taking half a minute to shoot in broad day light from 26 meters. and then waiting for his target to leave... are much more immersion breaking than any other thing you can come up with. because they are part of bad cutscene making. the kind you see on c movies. there is not way a top sniper would do that. I mean you everyone can see garrus pointing the gun on that fella. and the all shepard involvement in that scene is ridiculous. these kind of how stupidity explain to you how garrus got his squad wasted on omega.

I see. But that's not bad. Not if we compare it to Mass Effect 2's and 3's writing quality (excluding some character writing).

Modifié par Argentoid, 20 novembre 2013 - 09:41 .

[Argentoid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Shep doesn't know it's been two years until he talks to Jacob. Then he shows he's stunned. He say the last thing he remembers is the attack on the Normandy. He could have just figured he was waking up in some kind of hospital.

As for the thermal clip, it's just a retcon.. we're sort of forced to just put our fingers in our ears and go "La la la la la! Didn't hear that."

Point still stands. And even so... Seriously? No feelings? I wonder what a real human being would feel in such situation. All I see in Shepard's attitude is a goddamn brick.

Modifié par Argentoid, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:56 .

[CronoDragoon]

Linkenski wrote...

The reason people say Mac Walters sux and all that is because of ME3 and not just the ending.

It's pretty much the ending. Unless you mean the dozens and dozens of forum goers who bash all of ME3. But post-ME3 release they were the extreme minority on the BSN, as evidence by any "rate ME3" thread that popped up during that time. A lot of people loved the majority of the game and woldn't even know what a Mac Walters was if not for the ending.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 novembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Argentoid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Shep doesn't know it's been two years until he talks to Jacob. Then he shows he's stunned. He say the last thing he remembers is the attack on the Normandy. He could have just figured he was waking up in some kind of hospital.

As for the thermal clip, it's just a retcon.. we're sort of forced to just put our fingers in our ears and go "La la la la la! Didn't hear that."

Point still stands. And even so... Seriously? No feelings? I wonder what a real human being would feel in such situation. All I see in Shepard's attitude is a goddamn brick.

He shakes his head and looks stunned and says "Wait.. I'm trying to wrap my head around this." Additonally, the emotions before that is mostly confusion and irritation by being commanded around by Miranda. I think all of that together conveys enough of someone who feels out of place.

I know that. And I still don't buy it.

[Argentoid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Shep doesn't know it's been two years until he talks to Jacob. Then he shows he's stunned. He say the last thing he remembers is the attack on the Normandy. He could have just figured he was waking up in some kind of hospital.

As for the thermal clip, it's just a retcon.. we're sort of forced to just put our fingers in our ears and go "La la la la la! Didn't hear that."

Point still stands. And even so... Seriously? No feelings? I wonder what a real human being would feel in such situation. All I see in Shepard's attitude is a goddamn brick.

He shakes his head and looks stunned and says "Wait.. I'm trying to wrap my head around this." Additonally, the emotions before that is mostly confusion and irritation by being commanded around by Miranda. I think all of that together conveys enough of someone who feels out of place.

I know that. And I still don't buy it.

Well, fair enough, I guess. I wish I could help, but if this kind of thing bothers you that much, there's nothing to be done about it.

Ok, no problem. But what you're just trying to do is to defend something that is completely out of place, like Shepard's attitude towards being awaken at a Cerberus lab, which from his POV doesn't even realise it has been 2 years as you stated before, but still, he just was blasted out and fell from orbit, then black out, then woke up, and he wakes up and if nothing happened and feels almost nothing about it. 
If shaking his head and saying "I'm trying to wrap my head around this" is fairly normal after waking up from some sort of coma, then a robot is not any different. It could have been more fleshed out.

Modifié par Argentoid, 20 novembre 2013 - 09:26 .

[Argentoid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

Ok, no problem. But what you're just trying to do is to defend something that is completely out of place, like Shepard's attitude towards being awaken at a Cerberus lab (which from his POV, he doesn't even realise it has been 2 years as you stated before but still, he just was blasted out and fell from orbit, then black out, then woke up, and he wakes up and if nothing happened and feels almost nothing about it. 
If shaking his head and saying "I'm trying to wrap my head around this" is fairly normal after waking up from some sort of coma, then a robot is not any different. It could have been more fleshed out.

I'm not trying to really "defend" anything. I just like the game, and got past this particular hump. What was provided was good enough.I played it and had fun. I don't need to defend it too much, if you didn't have fun. That's something you have to decide for yourself. I don't want to devote too much time to what you enjoy or not. I'm just trying to help by saying what it works for me.

I see. Don't mind me, I do have fun with Mass Effect 2, I just like to analyze the story and some plot holes while at the same time I don't hail it as the best piece of writing I've ever seen. It's what I do, I work on films and I like writing scripts and reviewing mine and others so later people don't yell "PLOTHOLE!".

Of course, it's really hard to write and avoid all this issues. I find hilarious that erezike is in a group whose trying to rewrite ME3 when they should start with ME2.

[Linkenski]

I have to say, and I'm a bit biased, that while ME2 maybe wasn't the right choice story-wise considering we desperately needed the story to focus on the "how to stop/learn about reapers" theme, I still liked the plot it had better than ME3's even if ME2's plot is rather thin in comparison. ME3's "VICTORY AT ANY COST" thing which dominated dozen of its missions just pained me to death. I wonder if you have to be an American to fully understand it, because I hate the whole solidarity thing of ME3 and redundant sacrifice which happened numerous times.

ME3 just feels like every other war story to me with Mass Effect aesthetics slapped onto it. It's like a couple of WWII allegories and it just didn't feel "sci-fi" enough to me... in general. There's obviously exceptions, but for what the main plot offered I just prefer ME2's because it was all about space and this new mysterious race which was revealed to be corrupted versions of Protheans and all that.

I didn't actually mind the Human Reaper. I can see why people think it's stupid, but I didn't mind it like I did with Kalros vs. Reaper destroyer which was just way too circumstantial and convenient to keep me in willing suspension of disbelief or that whole "Shepard vs. Reaper" which was also very stupid.

Sometimes I felt like because stakes were higher and because the scale was generally bigger, ME3 was hard to be immersed in, in those epic moments because it just felt so summer block-busterish and, sorry, but americanized to me, "Duh, what did you expect!?"

Somehow I felt like ME3 was the more simplistic story, or rather it just feels like it's the same story as ME2 but on a bigger scale which takes more skill to write properly and IMO it just shows that it isn't all that believable.

Kudos to all they did right with ME3, but there's just more wrong than right storywise in my opinion whereas I didn't mind the lackluster plot in ME2 because you had the great extent of subplots, half of which were actually engaging storywise and regarding interactivity, game vs. player.

[CronoDragoon]

First, I fail to see what's more "Americanized" about ME3 compared to, say, Sovereign attacking the Citadel, which is at the very least equally summer blockbustery to anything that happens in ME3. Actually, I take that back. The whole fighter pilot sequence to start Priority Earth is so corny and obviously Star Wars that it bores me.

Second, there's no redundant sacrifice because each sacrifice was for a different plot point and purpose. Repeated instances of something isn't called redundant, it's called a theme.

Third, I don't see what's convenient about Kalros. It's established since ME1 that giant ornery worms exist and will attack when it detects something in its territory. Moreover, summoning giant worms with thumpers was established since ME2. Convenience implies coincidence, which is absent with Kalros.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 novembre 2013 - 09:57 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Argentoid wrote...

Of course, it's really hard to write and avoid all this issues. I find hilarious that erezike is in a group whose trying to rewrite ME3 when they should start with ME2.

I think ME3 can be rewritten for the better without changing the plot of ME2, but it will still have the large number of contrivances and handwaves because the plot of ME2 didn't really advance the over arching Reaper plot; most of the story development that did occur happened in the Arrival DLC. When I thought about how I would rewright ME3 I only got a few things in before deciding that ME2 would need to be changed in order to have an actually trilogy, not just 3 games in the same universe that have the same characters.

[Linkenski]

CronoDragoon wrote...

First, I fail to see what's more "Americanized" about ME3 compared to, say, Sovereign attacking the Citadel, which is at the very least equally summer blockbustery to anything that happens in ME3. Actually, I take that back. The whole fighter pilot sequence to start Priority Earth is so corny and obviously Star Wars that it bores me.

Second, there's no redundant sacrifice because each sacrifice was for a different plot point and purpose. Repeated instances of something isn't called redundant, it's called a theme.

Third, I don't see what's convenient about Kalros. It's established since ME1 that giant ornery worms exist and will attack when it detects something in its territory. Moreover, summoning giant worms with thumpers was established since ME2. Convenience implies coincidence, which is absent with Kalros.

Kalros was said to be "the mother of all thresher maws"... of "ALL" thresher maws... on Tuchanka... on the exact site of Tuchanka you were on. It's ****ing contrived.

It was more the "badass" moments that bothered me and those stupid set-piece moments the game had and those "America!!" moments like Victus' son sacrificing himself with that bomb, or the whole Kalros vs. Reaper scene (Kalros was contrived and the fight was soo Michael Bay, Transformers) and some of the stuff like Vega's shuttle-crash on Mars. Everything is just more boomy and impactful. It's just so... counter to what I used to like about Mass Effect.

ME1 and 2 did have a lot of corny and badass moments and "ooh, so edgy" dialogues but it kinda gave it a certain lightheartedness to it and in ME3 it's just pretty... meh, everything is so serious and depressing but suddently you have this teenage-appealing set-piece moments that's supposed to make you go "ooh yeaah, kicked yo ass, huh!?" and... just meh. It's not the Mass Effect I fell in love with.

Modifié par Linkenski, 20 novembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[Erez Kristal]

Argentoid wrote...
, I was referencing Shepard's attitude toward resurrection: He wakes up after 2 years being dead.  Where's the emotions he/she feels after losing his own life and being born again? That doesn't happen! He/She just wakes up and the first words to come out of his/her mouth are "This pistol doesn't have a thermal clip!".

I would have liked to see something like this. At least something

- reentry speed  and not becoming a complete toast - terminal velocity, durable suit, and marines- safety measures, installed in suit) shepard renentry speed wasn't high enough since he/she was pulled to the planet due to the planet gravity. which means the speed was low.

Yo dawg, basic physics. Plus, not even the freaking codex states that "magic safety measures" can save a marine from falling from space. Where the hellPlease, for the love of god, stop making up fan ******. The planet gravity was 0.85 G, yet you can still get pulverized. Make the math.

Let's couple the fact that Shepard had a suit rupture, ran out of air in space, their entire respiratory system was vacuumed, then by filled with gaseous ammonia and methane, while whatever organic material wasn't either melted off by the gases, and didn't get pulverized on impact, would then be crystalized by the cold temperatures of the planet -(22 C.) Per se, he got smashed into ice at thousands of miles an hour.

-parts like garrus the top shot taking half a minute to shoot in broad day light from 26 meters. and then waiting for his target to leave... are much more immersion breaking than any other thing you can come up with. because they are part of bad cutscene making. the kind you see on c movies. there is not way a top sniper would do that. I mean you everyone can see garrus pointing the gun on that fella. and the all shepard involvement in that scene is ridiculous. these kind of how stupidity explain to you how garrus got his squad wasted on omega.

I see. But that's not bad. Not if we compare it to Mass Effect 2's and 3's writing quality (excluding some character writing).

there were plenty of soft paragon replies to give people if you felt down about being dead. its good that they didn't force you into soft emo stuff like they did in me3 . I role played a shepard who had no time to dwell on what happened, he had a job to do. that's all that mattered.
in games like skyrim you don't get any role playing done for you. you have to do it all by yourself. so filling the gaps here isn't a bad idea. its much better than the game accidently forcing you into some kind of shepard vision you don't want. like happened in me3 with softy schizofren shep.

when ever I roleplay shepard at the beginning of the game. I try to put the following thoughts in my head.
What the frak?? what the frak? what the frak? where the hell am I.  so when I first meet Jacob its easy for me to give him the renegade version. you have to fill the lines. its an rpg.

and let go of all the unneeded extra text. you were clearly talking about the beginning. not need to decorate it all with extra text which sole purpose is your aim to make me look 
bad only to end looking bad yourself. just focus on the subject. and we will all be better for it.

 
about re-entry speed. again save me the nonsense such as dawg, basic physics. it is basic physics. shepard was only had a very slight speed boost towards the planet, which explain why his/jer body was charred. but it wasn't a fast speed. shepard was pushed from the ship by an explosion.  in order to partly burn the durable suit(can stop rockets and hyper velocity bullets) shepard reentry heat needed to be extremely high 1000 degrees. if it was many times higher then you are right shepard would have became toast. but because the Normandy wasn't flying at the direction of the planet. the only thing pushing shepard towards the planet was the explosion on the Normandy and the planet gravity. it wasn't enough to generate enough speed to create higher degrees that would be enough to burn shepard completely (basic physics). this is not like the case of comets making their way to our atmosphere at much higher speeds and burning completely.

as for the planet itself.
shepard suit has self repair mechanism. which explains your ability to regenerate health in me1 and me2. same like the nano suits on Crysis . shepard was flying into the planet at thousands of miles and hour. shepard was flying in less than 150 miles a hour. and maybe even less than a 100 miles of 50 miles if his/her suit had a special soft falling mechanism like expected from a space marine.  you would expect that in 2186 shepard would have a built in parachute.

so for conclusion. shepard died. but the reentry speed was too low to burn his/her armor suite, falling speed was too low to turn his/her body into goo and the suit self sealed itself preventing from the gasses on the planet to disintegrate his/her body into goo. 

You can continue to ignore these explanations if it helps you hate me2. but you cant argue physics without a good base.

And before you go there. no shepard was entering the planet near light speed like so many like to suggest. the Normandy was flying slowler than a fraction of light that way. while shepard was propelled in a much lower speed this way.

I didn't understand that last writing remark about me2. since I have enough experience with guns I can tell you the scene where garrus eliminate his ex friend is extremely ridiculous.  its the worse scene in the game after iff abduction scene. other than that and the killing batarians scene I cant really think of anything else. tela vasir investigation and cutscenes maybe.
  

[Erez Kristal]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

Of course, it's really hard to write and avoid all this issues. I find hilarious that erezike is in a group whose trying to rewrite ME3 when they should start with ME2.

I think ME3 can be rewritten for the better without changing the plot of ME2, but it will still have the large number of contrivances and handwaves because the plot of ME2 didn't really advance the over arching Reaper plot; most of the story development that did occur happened in the Arrival DLC. When I thought about how I would rewright ME3 I only got a few things in before deciding that ME2 would need to be changed in order to have an actually trilogy, not just 3 games in the same universe that have the same characters.

you should check our new site and see how we followed the me2 plot threads. we incorporated many plot lines: geth, firewalker, collectors, retribution, mass effect 1 plot, shadow broker, arrival, squadmates loyalty quests, overlord  and more. we used all which was important in me2 to push the plot forward. despite what some people claim the events of me2 only became irrelevant when me3 came out and forgot all about them.

[dreamgazer]

LOL @ blaming ME2's very apparent faults on ME3.

[Erez Kristal]

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ blaming ME2's very apparent faults on ME3.

I extremely enjoyed the pace the plot moved, me2 added a lot to the world and made it for what it is. the main collectors plot had plenty of flesh. it created a great main plot thread for the next installment to follow on. shepard turning into a cyborg made him/her better for the challenges ahead.
shepard dying, made us remember we are not invincible. I enjoyed that plot twist. it felt like fate but it was done in a good way. it just like when a dungeon master tries to gently push his players towards the wanted path, so they will end up grouping together.

[FlamingBoy]

dreamgazer wrote...

LOL @ blaming ME2's very apparent faults on ME3.

and others blame me3 (many) faults on me2.... the cycle continues