91 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

[Gold Dragon]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I'm firmly convinced that she is Fen'Harel.

I certainly hope she's not. That would be a pretty dull explanation.

I think the lore all but screams that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, but why do you think it would be dull?

Riddle me this then: If Flemeth is who you claim she is, what does that make Morrigan and Yavanna?

Conniving, manipulative "Witches" of the Wilds.

[Silfren]

MasterScribe wrote...

Silfren wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I'm firmly convinced that she is Fen'Harel.

I certainly hope she's not. That would be a pretty dull explanation.

I think the lore all but screams that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, but why do you think it would be dull?

If people (in this case you and everyone else that thinks Flemeth and Fen'Harel are the same) have already figured out the "mystery," then the eventual revelation will be incredibly anti-clmatic.

I just hope the writers have something unexpected and interesting in mind.

I don't see how fans being able to accurately predict a reveal would make it anti-climatic.  It would be stupid for Bioware to, say, scrap a reveal and come up with something else simply because some fans made a good guess.  Do you feel this way about any story in which people are able to "call" an outcome and turn out to be right?  I find that silly.  Or do you simply think writers should go out of their way to come up with a reveal that is so unexpected there's no way for any fan to have possibly seen it coming?  I can appreciate wanting unexpected reveals, but only if it actually makes sense for the narrative.  If you're arguing that for any fans to be able to anticipate a reveal automatically renders it anti-climatic and that the aim should be for the reveal to be so off-the-wall that no fans could possibly have predicted it, well...I think this is taking the demand for originality overboard.

[The Xand]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

Yeah, I think you're spot on here. It would smack of uncreative laziness to keep her so "mysterious".

Personally I think she's either Fen'Harel and/or an Old God. I believe Morrigan genuinely is her daughter too, which would make her something of a cross between Merlin, in regards to her supernatural heritage, and Morgana, for tricking the Warden (the hero of the first game's epic saga and a viable standin for Arthur) into knocking her up. Might explain why she's a compatible host for the soul of an Old God, and why her eyes are such an unnatural colour.

Funny to think of an evil grown up Old God Baby turning up in golden armour as a sort of Mordred like in that old Excalibur movie.

Modifié par The Xand, 17 novembre 2013 - 02:59 .

[myahele]

I predict that the inquisitor will be saved by flemmeth. Seems whomever she saves ends up pretty important to world events. Maric, warden, hawke, and probably others in the past.

Or for break of status quo: morrigan

[Texhnolyze101]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

They will just end up ruining her like they did the reapers so its better to keep her motives unexplained forever IMO.

[LPPrince]

I'm sure over the course of the games they'll explain Phlegmeth more and more.

Just give it time.

[f37]

So why the elaborate tale involving Osen and Connaber.

[Hainkpe]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

That's how i felt about the reapers before Bioware ruined them with really stupid motivations so i to don't want flem flem's motives revealed.

Same! I don't want her to be something inanely simple. She's fun. We don't have to know everything. Mystery can be good.

[Hainkpe]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

No. A good example is BSG and Starbuck. Loved where they took the character and really, what was she? We don't know and that's the best part. Was she a god? An angel? Something else? Its fun to speculate and to imagine. If they, the powers the be, can't come to a good conclusion than leave it. Its a fun loose end.

[Silfren]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

They will just end up ruining her like they did the reapers so its better to keep her motives unexplained forever IMO.

Why are you so convinced that any revelations will amount to ruination of her character?

[Silfren]

f37 wrote...

So why the elaborate tale involving Osen and Connaber.

What about it? 

[Hainkpe]

Silfren wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

They will just end up ruining her like they did the reapers so its better to keep her motives unexplained forever IMO.

Why are you so convinced that any revelations will amount to ruination of her character?

Reapers.

It's a risky move. Other BW teams were not up to the task. To question is if this team can pull it off, well, therein lays the real question.

Modifié par Hainkpe, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[The Xand]

Hainkpe wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Hainkpe wrote...

I don't want her explained. I like the mystery of her.

Um, no.  To me, this would say that they never had a good idea in the first place and are keeping her enigmatic just for the sake of adding a mysterious element.

No. A good example is BSG and Starbuck. Loved where they took the character and really, what was she? We don't know and that's the best part. Was she a god? An angel? Something else? Its fun to speculate and to imagine. If they, the powers the be, can't come to a good conclusion than leave it. Its a fun loose end.

No, that wasn't good. At all. That whole series became a bit naff at the end, culminating in Lee Adama effectively knocking humanity back to the stone ages for a few hundred thousand years because he had a midlife back-to-roots crisis.

Modifié par The Xand, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:11 .

[Hainkpe]

The Xand wrote...

No, that wasn't good. At all. That whole series became a bit naff at the end, culminating in Lee Adama effectively knocking humanity back to the stone ages for a few hundred thousand years because he had a midlife back-to-roots crisis.

Maybe we'll get lucky and the Inquisitor will do the same for Thedas.

[Medhia Nox]

@Icy Magebane: I believe that is why everything should have much more solid explanations.

@Hainkpe: The entire Starbuck "era" of BSG was the absolute weakest part of the show. Not because of Starbuck and her storyline per se - but that time frame went off the rails - fortunately the ending picked up. You might disagree - totally understand, but I strongly believe that mystery is different from ambiguity.

When something is a mystery - I believe it is clear that the author has a very solid idea of what that mystery is.

Ambiguity - which both Dragon Age and that part of BSG are rife with - suggests (though only the author can know) that the story simply has no direction.

A story should make clear statements - leaving something up to the viewer is such a cop out.

EDIT: Um... Xand, that wasn't the message at the end of BSG.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:23 .

[The Xand]

Medhia Nox wrote...

EDIT: Um... Xand, that wasn't the message at the end of BSG.

Some hippie Luddite bs about humans being inveterate fudgeups and technology being bad while the Ancients from Stargate fanny around behind the scenes.

Modifié par The Xand, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:18 .

[Silfren]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Icy Magebane: I believe that is why everything should have much more solid explanations.

@Hainkpe: The entire Starbuck "era" of BSG was the absolute weakest part of the show. Not because of Starback and her storyline per se - but that time frame went off the rails - fortunately the ending picked up. You might disagree - totally understand, but I strongly believe that mystery is different from ambiguity.

When something is a mystery - I believe it is clear that the author has a very solid idea of what that mystery is.

Ambiguity - which both Dragon Age and that part of BSG are rife with - suggests (though only the author can know) that the story simply has no direction.

A story should make clear statements - leaving something up to the viewer is such a cop out.

EDIT: Um... Xand, that wasn't the message at the end of BSG.

Re: the underlined portion, I have to agree with this.  I think there is a place for ambiguity, such as writing Andrastian doctrine in such a way as to keep it squarely in the realm of speculation, opinion, and belief, rather than being conclusive fact.  But somewhere along the way a lot of the lore became so inconsistent and contradictory that...yeah. 

Modifié par Silfren, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:19 .

[Hainkpe]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Icy Magebane: I believe that is why everything should have much more solid explanations.

@Hainkpe: The entire Starbuck "era" of BSG was the absolute weakest part of the show. Not because of Starback and her storyline per se - but that time frame went off the rails - fortunately the ending picked up. You might disagree - totally understand, but I strongly believe that mystery is different from ambiguity.

When something is a mystery - I believe it is clear that the author has a very solid idea of what that mystery is.

Ambiguity - which both Dragon Age and that part of BSG are rife with - suggests (though only the author can know) that the story simply has no direction.

A story should make clear statements - leaving something up to the viewer is such a cop out.

EDIT: Um... Xand, that wasn't the message at the end of BSG.

When it comes to Flemeth, she is an enigma. We do not know who or what she is. That, is what I would like to see preserved. She is something more, possibly bigger than a simple explanation.

Starbuck wasn't an angel, although there is speculation that she was. Flemeth isn't the maker but there is speculation that she is. If you look at both stories in parallel you are left with mystery. No clear answer but many questions.

The concern is if the people writing the story can add to that, heighten it and make it into a story element worthy of the history that has been given of Flemeth or she ends up like the Reapers.

I would rather she stays a mystery than end up as a trumped up deus ex machina.

I don't think anyone had a good idea of what Starbuck could be so they threw in other elements and just left it. I think it was the right thing to do rather than making the story suffer from lack of clarity or oversimplification of the character's origins and motivations. 

[In Exile]

I think a better question is whether they'll explain her well.

[Medhia Nox]

I care far FAR less about "who" Flemeth is, or was... and much more about her goals.

The only line that has ever made me at all interested in her - was if you refuse to assist her or Morrigan.

She seems to respect you if you do that, and I felt then and there that I had a better grasp of Flemeth.

====

The problem is consistency - it's easy to just run to the "crazy otherworldly wise creature." But, that creature should reveal herself through motives a careful observer could make. I do not believe Bioware has done this.

I believe they just make her a boorishly obtuse creation - a disservice to the things about her that are cool.

- We know she seems embittered about the world.
- We know she has a disdain for people and their problems.
- We know she is impressed if you tell both her and her daughter to eat s--t and die.
- We know that her story, Andraste's story and the dwarven tale of Luthias Dwarfson are all VERY similar.
- We know she's a manipulator.
- There's a possibility that she visited Sandal (has anyone suggested that she's Sandal's mother yet? Isn't he half-dwarf/half "other"?)

But all of these are such very basic traits - telling us next to nothing "really" about her.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 17 novembre 2013 - 03:31 .

[The Xand]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I care far FAR less about "who" Flemeth is, or was... and much more about her goals.

The only line that has ever made me at all interested in her - was if you refuse to assist her or Morrigan.

She seems to respect you if you do that, and I felt then and there that I had a better grasp of Flemeth.

====

The problem is consistency - it's easy to just run to the "crazy otherworldly wise creature." But, that creature should reveal herself through motives a careful observer could make. I do not believe Bioware has done this.

I believe they just make her a boorishly obtuse creation - a disservice to the things about her that are cool.

- We know she seems embittered about the world.
- We know she has a disdain for people and their problems.
- We know she is impressed if you tell both her and her daughter to eat s--t and die.
- We know that her story, Andraste's story and the dwarven tale of Luthias Dwarfson are all VERY similar.
- We know she's a manipulator.
- There's a possibility that she visited Sandal (has anyone suggested that she's Sandal's mother yet? Isn't he half-dwarf/half "other"?)

But all of these are such very basic traits - telling us next to nothing "really" about her.

She's essentially Gabriel from Supernatural, who masqueraded as a trickster god. Er, spoilers.

[TheKomandorShepard]

MasterScribe wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I don't see how fans being able to accurately predict a reveal would make it anti-climatic.  It would be stupid for Bioware to, say, scrap a reveal and come up with something else simply because some fans made a good guess.  Do you feel this way about any story in which people are able to "call" an outcome and turn out to be right?  I find that silly.  Or do you simply think writers should go out of their way to come up with a reveal that is so unexpected there's no way for any fan to have possibly seen it coming?  I can appreciate wanting unexpected reveals, but only if it actually makes sense for the narrative.  If you're arguing that for any fans to be able to anticipate a reveal automatically renders it anti-climatic and that the aim should be for the reveal to be so off-the-wall that no fans could possibly have predicted it, well...I think this is taking the demand for originality overboard.

The crux of what I'm saying is that I HOPE the writers put more thought, than the average player can, into something so important.

"Flemeth as Fen'harel" just seems TOO simple and convenient, in my opinion, as if it is an intentional red herring (among others).

If it were the actual explanation, then the reveal would be anti-climatic by virtue of already being known but not being sufficiently built up. That's true of any revelation.

By "unexpected," I don't mean "off-the-wall." I'm just HOPING that the explanation is not overly simple nor overly convenient.

This is my HOPE, not a demand. I'm not arrogant enough to make any such demands. 

She is star chi... star hag hah you didn't see that coming ha!

[KC_Prototype]

I know, I've been wanting know her full plans and a full explanation on what is she. Also, that cliff hanger in Witch Hunt with what Morrigan told us and what Flemeth said in the beginning of DA2 got me thinking, "What the hell is she talking about and what are her intentions?", and now people got me thinking what if Morrigan is doing the same thing with the OGB? We don't know her intentions either. Also, if you look at the statue of Andraste and Flemeth in DA2, you'll see a suspicious amount of similarities.