28 réponses à ce sujet

[Vit246]

After all, Meredith did order Templar Emeric to stop his investigation on a serial killer blood mage.

[draken-heart]

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

[TEWR]

^What Dragonflight said is what I've always said. Meredith is at fault, as is Aveline. Both are incompetent.

[HiroVoid]

To be fair, Aveline and Meredith apparently have to deal with dozens of bandits ready to ambush the nearest person at every corner. Can't imagine how many casualties that causes the every day guy.

[dragonflight288]

HiroVoid wrote...

To be fair, Aveline and Meredith apparently have to deal with dozens of bandits ready to ambush the nearest person at every corner. Can't imagine how many casualties that causes the every day guy.

But still, a small force of shades and summoned demons should've had the templars scouring that foundry as far back as Act 1.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

^What Dragonflight said is what I've always said. Meredith is at fault, as is Aveline. Both are incompetent.

The fault for not stopping Quentin should be directed at Meredith, Orsino, and Aveline equally and at the same time it's really no one's fault.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

Nobody knew what Quentin was doind outside of Emeric and Orsino. And who convinced them? More than likely it was Orsino who tricked them into believing what they believed when they shut down the investigation.

And Emeric was getting old, that did not help his case any.

Modifié par draken-heart, 18 novembre 2013 - 06:39 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I blame Quentin for Quentin.

'Just an isolated incident, as far as I'm concerned, and it says nothing of the mages OR Templars in Kirkwall.

I guess I could, though, blame the Order for the way it holds back mages' magic potential, thus making alliances with a guy like Quentin desirable. I get why Orsino would help another mage study/research magic that isn't strictly permissable by the Order. Can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were in his shoes -- I'd want the mages to be able to empower themselves, too.

And no, there's nothing to indicate that Orsino was aware that Quentin was murdering women at the same time.

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

Nobody knew what Quentin was doind outside of Emeric and Orsino. And who convinced them? More than likely it was Orsino who tricked them into believing what they believed when they shut down the investigation.

And Emeric was getting old, that did not help his case any.

Emrick had Hawke, possibly the guard captain, and two others as witnesses of the summoned demons and the Shades.

One witness may be a drunk or a rumor, and it's only word of mouth. Two witnesses tell the truth according to most courts.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

Nobody knew what Quentin was doind outside of Emeric and Orsino. And who convinced them? More than likely it was Orsino who tricked them into believing what they believed when they shut down the investigation.

And Emeric was getting old, that did not help his case any.

Emrick had Hawke, possibly the guard captain, and two others as witnesses of the summoned demons and the Shades.

One witness may be a drunk or a rumor, and it's only word of mouth. Two witnesses tell the truth according to most courts.

You do not read the letter? IT is clear that Orsino is the O in the letter. On the Templar side, he even says clearly that he knew quentin, and thus kept him from the templars by hiding the guy. Even if orsino did not know what Quentin was doing in Kirkwall, he knew Quentin's research, and he could have stopped it.

As the knight commander and guard captain, who would you believe? A senile old Templar or the First Enchanter?

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

Nobody knew what Quentin was doind outside of Emeric and Orsino. And who convinced them? More than likely it was Orsino who tricked them into believing what they believed when they shut down the investigation.

And Emeric was getting old, that did not help his case any.

Emrick had Hawke, possibly the guard captain, and two others as witnesses of the summoned demons and the Shades.

One witness may be a drunk or a rumor, and it's only word of mouth. Two witnesses tell the truth according to most courts.

You do not read the letter? IT is clear that Orsino is the O in the letter. On the Templar side, he even says clearly that he knew quentin, and thus kept him from the templars by hiding the guy. Even if orsino did not know what Quentin was doing in Kirkwall, he knew Quentin's research, and he could have stopped it.

As the knight commander and guard captain, who would you believe? A senile old Templar or the First Enchanter?

Yes, I've read the letter. But at the time of discovery, it is impossible to know who "O" is. I had no idea who it was on my first playthrough, and I suspect that you didn't either. That's metagame knowledge.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Didn't Orsino hide Quentin so the Templars thought it was nothing?

Not completely. Orsino provided Quentin with research material and books. Emerick had been investigating the deaths for years, and Meredith ordered him to stand down and Aveline didn't take his evidence seriously.

Heck, Aveline's guardsmen were convinced to raid DuPuis' manor and found nothing (not sure how they found nothing, but there you go) and Emerick was disbarred from the investigation by Meredith. He was also the ONLY templar apparently looking into these deaths.

Considering that in Act 1, when Hawke enters the foundry, we see Quentin run off and are attacked by a bunch of shades, that alone should've had a whole platoon of templars in the area, but for some reason only Emerick thought it was important enough to keep investigating.

Nobody knew what Quentin was doind outside of Emeric and Orsino. And who convinced them? More than likely it was Orsino who tricked them into believing what they believed when they shut down the investigation.

And Emeric was getting old, that did not help his case any.

Emrick had Hawke, possibly the guard captain, and two others as witnesses of the summoned demons and the Shades.

One witness may be a drunk or a rumor, and it's only word of mouth. Two witnesses tell the truth according to most courts.

You do not read the letter? IT is clear that Orsino is the O in the letter. On the Templar side, he even says clearly that he knew quentin, and thus kept him from the templars by hiding the guy. Even if orsino did not know what Quentin was doing in Kirkwall, he knew Quentin's research, and he could have stopped it.

As the knight commander and guard captain, who would you believe? A senile old Templar or the First Enchanter?

Yes, I've read the letter. But at the time of discovery, it is impossible to know who "O" is. I had no idea who it was on my first playthrough, and I suspect that you didn't either. That's metagame knowledge.

even so, Orsino had contact with Quentin. Without him to coroberate Emeric's testimony, noone believed the old senile Templar.

[draken-heart]

Delete this post.

Modifié par draken-heart, 20 novembre 2013 - 02:08 .

[dragonflight288]

even so, Orsino had contact with Quentin. Without him to coroberate Emeric's testimony, noone believed the old senile Templar.

Hawke, Aveline and whoever else Hawke may have had. Hawke talks to Emeric about the evidence he gathered and Hawke can tell a female templar in Act 2 BEFORE Emeric's death...or I may be misremembering so I'll have to play that part again, but my point is Emeric has far more than his own word against possibly Orsino's. He has a nobleman (by Act 2) and the Captain of the Guard.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

even so, Orsino had contact with Quentin. Without him to coroberate Emeric's testimony, noone believed the old senile Templar.

Hawke, Aveline and whoever else Hawke may have had. Hawke talks to Emeric about the evidence he gathered and Hawke can tell a female templar in Act 2 BEFORE Emeric's death...or I may be misremembering so I'll have to play that part again, but my point is Emeric has far more than his own word against possibly Orsino's. He has a nobleman (by Act 2) and the Captain of the Guard.

Emeric thinks that the disappearances are because of Gascard. IF Orsino stepped in and prduced Quentin's research, that might have put them on the right trail. Emeric is a senile old man and no one believed him from the start. EXCEPT for Hawke.

[dragonflight288]

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

even so, Orsino had contact with Quentin. Without him to coroberate Emeric's testimony, noone believed the old senile Templar.

Hawke, Aveline and whoever else Hawke may have had. Hawke talks to Emeric about the evidence he gathered and Hawke can tell a female templar in Act 2 BEFORE Emeric's death...or I may be misremembering so I'll have to play that part again, but my point is Emeric has far more than his own word against possibly Orsino's. He has a nobleman (by Act 2) and the Captain of the Guard.

Emeric thinks that the disappearances are because of Gascard. IF Orsino stepped in and prduced Quentin's research, that might have put them on the right trail. Emeric is a senile old man and no one believed him from the start. EXCEPT for Hawke.

Gascard WAS involved to the extent that he was the blood-mage apprentice to Quentin, so Emeric wasn't entirely wrong.

Fact is though, there was enough witnesses to justify having templars in that foundry looking around because enough people saw the shades and demons.

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

even so, Orsino had contact with Quentin. Without him to coroberate Emeric's testimony, noone believed the old senile Templar.

Hawke, Aveline and whoever else Hawke may have had. Hawke talks to Emeric about the evidence he gathered and Hawke can tell a female templar in Act 2 BEFORE Emeric's death...or I may be misremembering so I'll have to play that part again, but my point is Emeric has far more than his own word against possibly Orsino's. He has a nobleman (by Act 2) and the Captain of the Guard.

Emeric thinks that the disappearances are because of Gascard. IF Orsino stepped in and prduced Quentin's research, that might have put them on the right trail. Emeric is a senile old man and no one believed him from the start. EXCEPT for Hawke.

Gascard WAS involved to the extent that he was the blood-mage apprentice to Quentin, so Emeric wasn't entirely wrong.

Fact is though, there was enough witnesses to justify having templars in that foundry looking around because enough people saw the shades and demons.

Except that he put all the blam on Gascard, and knew nothing of Quentin. Orsino, as far as I know, is the only one who know about Quentin at all.

[dragonflight288]

Except that he put all the blam on Gascard, and knew nothing of Quentin. Orsino, as far as I know, is the only one who know about Quentin at all.

So wouldn't Orsino help investigate Gascard since he admits he was covering for Quentin?

[draken-heart]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Except that he put all the blam on Gascard, and knew nothing of Quentin. Orsino, as far as I know, is the only one who know about Quentin at all.

So wouldn't Orsino help investigate Gascard since he admits he was covering for Quentin?

Orsino likely did not know about Gascard. All I know is that was the only one who knew about Quentin or his research. everyone else thought it was either Gascard or that the disappearances were nothing.

[sylvanaerie]

While it's easy to point the blame at a number of people for this, and there are arguments for all of them.

Orsino: Aided Quentin not only in his research, but kept his clandestine operations a secret from everyone.

Aveline: For not following up more on the leads she had, and knuckling under to pressure from higher ups to just ignore what was happening.

Meredith: For shutting down Emeric's efforts to get to the cause of the disappearances.

Gascard: For knowing who Quentin was and being so greedy for the powers/secrets he could learn he was blinded to the wrongness of murder for the sake of spare body parts.

Hawke: for not following up more on the leads given in Act 1. It only became when Leandra was taken that Hawke actually did something.

Of course, it may be argued that Orsino covered up any leads towards Quentin, in which case he has to shoulder more of the burden than he owns up to.

But ultimately, when all is said and done, the blame must lie with Quentin. He was the sociopath who murdered I don't know how many ladies just to recreate his dead wife.  And being batsh*t eating nuts doesn't get him a 'get out of jail free' card. 

One might say, all shared some blame for the death of Leandra, and who knows how many other innocent women who resembled dead wife, but no one person shoulders it's burden unless you want to say it was Quentin.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 20 novembre 2013 - 04:41 .

[draken-heart]

@sylvanaerie: Understood, but Orsino is, as far as I know, the only one who knew of quentin or his research, so a sociopath like him would have been killed before Hawke had to do anything about it.

[Hazegurl]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

^What Dragonflight said is what I've always said. Meredith is at fault, as is Aveline. Both are incompetent.

The fault for not stopping Quentin should be directed at Meredith, Orsino, and Aveline equally and at the same time it's really no one's fault.

Very true. Aveline is poor Guards Captain. I like her but seriously, most of the guards were posted in Hightown. it was really hard for me to believe the guards craved the dangerous jobs when all of them were sitting pretty in Hightown and were barely shown actually doing their jobs unless it was quest related. Orsino hid a killer. Plain and simple. it doesn't matter how people try and talk around it. He knew at least a place where Quentin would be and refused to inform Meredith. Meredith should have searched the tower a long time ago and sent more Templars to investigate, even undercover to look into these killings. All are at fault to some degree but I admit I blame Orsino more because he had the biggest piece of info that could have helped catch the guy. He was leaving materials at certain locations for him, it could have been a great way to set up a trap. But nope, he allowed a murderer to go on killing for years while he sat back and fueled his research.

[draken-heart]

Hazegurl wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

^What Dragonflight said is what I've always said. Meredith is at fault, as is Aveline. Both are incompetent.

The fault for not stopping Quentin should be directed at Meredith, Orsino, and Aveline equally and at the same time it's really no one's fault.

Very true. Aveline is poor Guards Captain. I like her but seriously, most of the guards were posted in Hightown. it was really hard for me to believe the guards craved the dangerous jobs when all of them were sitting pretty in Hightown and were barely shown actually doing their jobs unless it was quest related. Orsino hid a killer. Plain and simple. it doesn't matter how people try and talk around it. He knew at least a place where Quentin would be and refused to inform Meredith. Meredith should have searched the tower a long time ago and sent more Templars to investigate, even undercover to look into these killings. All are at fault to some degree but I admit I blame Orsino more because he had the biggest piece of info that could have helped catch the guy. He was leaving materials at certain locations for him, it could have been a great way to set up a trap. But nope, he allowed a murderer to go on killing for years while he sat back and fueled his research.

I agree with the Orsino parts, but nothing more. IF Orsino did not hide Quentin, Maybe Aveline and Meredith may not have thought nothing was going to happen and cancel the investigation, or put the guards mostly in High Town.

[Bardox9]

Orsino is the only reason Quentin was able to remain hidden. According to the letter in Quentins den, Orsino was supportive of Quentins research. The research that involved the killing of Hawkes mother. One of reasons I have trouble faulting anyone for backing the Templars in DA2.