211 réponses à ce sujet

[MisanthropePrime]

You've seen the arguments- people correcting people out of nowhere when they refer to a Qunari instead of a "kossith", the writers' insistence that no one would use that term in the world... and with Qunari being playable in the upcoming game, I realized something.


Name wise, the Qunari are kind of the odd-man out when you're selecting your races. Everyone knows what a human, an elf, a dwarf is, even (or especially) if they're not familiar with the Dragon Age series. But Qunari? That's a word exclusive to the setting, and frankly, it's a bit hard to grasp, especially when you bring in the nuances of their culture and the fact that the playable Qunari doesn't actually follow the Qun.

But then I realized something: multiple times in Origins, Sten and the Qunari are referred to as "giants", and in some supplemental material, that's what the Qunari are called, "giants". For the most part, everyone familiar with fantasy knows what a giant is, and you can't say the Qunari don't meet the one necessary quality (said quality being "big").


So, I propose, that when referring to these such beings in a culturally-neutral (especially physiological) context, call them "giants". If you're talking about culture, then you can say "Qunari" or "Tal-Vashoth", or possibly qualify them as "Qunari giants", in the same way we'd use "Dalish" and "Dalish elves" interchangeably, or how we'd specify "Orzammar" or "Surfacer dwarves"

Now, some might say that the Qunari don't call themselves "giants" and that it's disingenuous to refer to them as such. Well, the elves and dwarves didn't historically refer to themselves as such, either: their words for themselves were "Elvhen" and "Dwarva" respectively, and it was humans, the dominant culture on Thedas who assigned them those names... which they now use. Humans do indeed call the Qunari giants, so I think it's a very apropriate term to use knowing the way the other races of Thedas were named.

This is mostly an initiative for the fans, but who knows, if we can standardize this and put the whole Qunari/Kossith feud to rest, maybe it'll pick up among the writers, too.

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 17 novembre 2013 - 08:22 .

[Fetunche]

Call them moody cow people.

[Ozzy]

Fetunche wrote...

Call them moody cow people.

Done. 

[Nefla]

I'll just keep calling them Qunari, it's simple and easy enough. You can tell what someone is talking about through context, plus there are other handy words for non Qunari race converts(viddithari), Qunari race who desert the Qun( Tal'Vashoth), and I would assume that viddithari who desert the Qun go back to being just elf/dwarf/human.

[TurretSyndrome]

I just don't get what's the whole stubbornness with not giving them a name. We got them as a playable race now, and it's as good a time as any to do so.

I like "Grey Horns" better.

[JerZey CJ]

I think "Vashoth" is a more suitable term, it literally means "Gray Ones"(as opposed to Tal-Vashoth meaning True Gray Ones). It describes the race, without giving the hostile/mercenary connotations of Tal-Vashoth.

[JerZey CJ]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

I just don't get what's the whole stubbornness with not giving them a name. We got them as a playable race now, and it's as good a time as any to do so.

I like "Grey Horns" better.

Because it is not part of their culture. They have no need to identify themselves further than "Qunari", the fact that they follow the Qun is all that matters to them when naming themselves. The same things go for Tal-Vashoth, all that matters to them is that they oppose the Qun and believe their way is better(hence "true" gray ones).

[TurretSyndrome]

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...
Because it is not part of their culture. They have no need to identify themselves further than "Qunari", the fact that they follow the Qun is all that matters to them when naming themselves. The same things go for Tal-Vashoth, all that matters to them is that they oppose the Qun and believe their way is better(hence "true" gray ones).

You only need the writer to name something in their story, not the characters. I already am aware of why they do not wish to discern themselves differently(they see no reason in having the name, I get that). 

[Direwolf0294]

I just don't understand why some people get worked up so much about it.

Yes, ingame, in lore, they're known as the Qunari to everyone, but for the sake of clarity when discussing the game in real life, it's easier, and better, to have one name for the race and one name for the religion.

Kossith = race
Qunari = religion

It just makes things so much simpler.

[Jorina Leto]

They are Qunari. If you need to differ use Qunari religion and Qunari race.

[JerZey CJ]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...
Because it is not part of their culture. They have no need to identify themselves further than "Qunari", the fact that they follow the Qun is all that matters to them when naming themselves. The same things go for Tal-Vashoth, all that matters to them is that they oppose the Qun and believe their way is better(hence "true" gray ones).

You only need the writer to name something in their story, not the characters. I already am aware of why they do not wish to discern themselves differently(they see no reason in having the name, I get that). 

But then where would the writer's name come from lorewise/in universe? If the Qunari don't name themselves and all of the other races just call them Qunari, who would give them a "proper" race name? Sure, a writer could just say "FINE this is what they're called" but it wouldn't fit into the game or would just end up never being used outside of here. Just making a race name so that it is easier for us to discuss it here doesn't seem like a good reason to make one.

Modifié par JerZeyCJ2, 17 novembre 2013 - 10:28 .

[Abraham_uk]

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 17 novembre 2013 - 10:29 .

[Knight of Dane]

I don't understand the difficulty of understanding it. Generally they refer to themselves as "Qunari" because that is the name of their philosophy/religion/social identity and those of them that are not of the Qun call themselves what their association is, be that Armaas, Ketojan or Tal Vasoth.

It's a group that doesn't define themselves by their exterior, what is so hard to grasp?

[Direwolf0294]

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

[JerZey CJ]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

That sentence isn't really all that confusing, as long as you understand that a qunari doesn't have to follow the Qun. And we can't all just use Kossith because there are ALWAYS going to be the people who come into a thread just to say "That isn't the right name! They areblah blah blah...."

[Blackrising]

Or we could just keep calling them Qunari.

[MisanthropePrime]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

The thing is, while you're Jewish, you're other things: white, middle eastern, meditterranean, even black in the case of Ethiopian jews (and not including converts). Talking about Jews in a biological context, for instance, Jews of European descent are at a greater risk for Tay-Sachs Disease, in the same way we might try to talk about Qunari as having certain physical properties, but if you just say "Jews are at risk for tay-sachs disease" that's not true for Mizrahi or Sephardi jews, similarly, an elven Qunari wouldn't have the biological characteristics of a "giant" Qunari.

[TurretSyndrome]

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

That sentence isn't really all that confusing, as long as you understand that a qunari doesn't have to follow the Qun. And we can't all just use Kossith because there are ALWAYS going to be the people who come into a thread just to say "That isn't the right name! They areblah blah blah...."

I explicitly remember the Arishok denying that the Tal-Vashoth are not Qunari when Hawke mentions that. Qunari take their names to mean exactly what they are; the followers of Qun, nothing more.

Only Bioware tells you to refer to them as Qunari, because they feel that calling them Kossith is worse. 

[Big I]

Blackrising wrote...
Or we could just keep calling them Qunari.

This. There is no conundrum. Kossith is an extinct, archaic term. Their name for themselves is Qunari.

[Spectre slayer]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

Sigh no we shouldn't use the word Kossith as a racial identifier because it isn't one nor was it ever one, Kossith was the culture that predated the conversion to the Qun and it won't be used in the game anytime soon, nor will the people who actually know what they are talking about use it.

They have no modern name for their race an Gaider already said he's not going to give one, also there's no distinction between race and religion.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

dgaider.tumblr.com/post/55048374228/dragonageconfessions-confession-i-hate-how-theu

This is the second time this has been brought up today, and in this thread I included the quotes from the writer's and devs that say Kossith was the name of the culture that predates the Qun, it's improper, archaic, incorrect, antiquated technical term that only a select few of Qunari priests even knows it exists, and not even a word in their own language.

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/1

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/2

[img]http://r.m.yahoo.com/api/res/1.2/5soCrpzXUS2AX56WOyA1TA--/Zmk9Zml0O2g9NDYwO3c9NDYw/http://f1630.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_5296369_AMzqHkgAAAsJUolC4gAAAKaKf4Y&fid=Inbox&pid=2[/img]

That's from the demo and it lists the racial identifier as Qunari even though they already said we will be playing as a Tal'Vashoth possibly a Vashoth that becomes a Tal'Vashoth. 

The Big Grey Giants with or without horns that follow the Qun are Qunari and only Qunari 

The Big Grey Giants that do not follow or break the Qun and are non Violent are Vashoth otherwise they're Tal'Vashoth

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun who have been newly conquered and haven't submitted are Kabethari

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun and have totally submitted are called Viddathari.

He or she wasn't the one being pig headed or using complicated reasoning since this isn't very hard to understand, you are the one whose being pig headed because you don't understand this topic at all and are searching for an easy answer to something that just doesn't exist.

Since again there's no modern term, no distinction between race or religion, no one in game will even know the term exists, it's not used by most of the writer's or devs and not used by most of the fan base.

I have provided you with the terms you can use, links to quotes from the writer's and devs and a screen shot that uses the Qunari as the racial identifier, if you want to keep using a term that's incorrect then well... just know it won't ever be used and people will correct you until you stop especially if you have an attitude.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 17 novembre 2013 - 11:11 .

[Vit246]

Qunari are Qunari. End of story.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I thought we'd agreed to call them cheese wheels, but moody cow people has a certain appeal...

[MisanthropePrime]

Spectre slayer wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One can be Qunari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

Sigh no we shouldn't use the word Kossith as a racial identifier because it isn't one nor was it ever one, Kossith was the culture that predated the conversion to the Qun and it won't be used in the game anytime soon, nor will the people who actually know what they are talking about use it.

They have no modern name for their race an Gaider already said he's not going to give one, also there's no distinction between race and religion.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

dgaider.tumblr.com/post/55048374228/dragonageconfessions-confession-i-hate-how-theu

This is the second time this has been brought up today, and in this thread I included the quotes from the writer's and devs that say Kossith was the name of the culture that predates the Qun, it's improper, archaic, incorrect, antiquated technical term that only a select few of Qunari priests even knows it exists, and not even a word in their own language.

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/1

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/2

[img]http://r.m.yahoo.com/api/res/1.2/5soCrpzXUS2AX56WOyA1TA--/Zmk9Zml0O2g9NDYwO3c9NDYw/http://f1630.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_5296369_AMzqHkgAAAsJUolC4gAAAKaKf4Y&fid=Inbox&pid=2[/img]

That's from the demo and it lists the racial identifier as Qunari even though they already said we will be playing as a Tal'Vashoth possibly a Vashoth that becomes a Tal'Vashoth. 

The Big Grey Giants with or without horns that follow the Qun are Qunari and only Qunari 

The Big Grey Giants that do not follow or break the Qun and are non Violent are Vashoth otherwise they're Tal'Vashoth

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun who have been newly conquered and haven't submitted are Kabethari

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun and have totally submitted are called Viddathari.

He or she wasn't the one being pig headed or using complicated reasoning since this isn't very hard to understand, you are the one whose being pig headed because you don't understand this topic at all and are searching for an easy answer to something that just doesn't exist.

Since again there's no modern term, no distinction between race or religion, no one in game will even know the term exists, it's not used by most of the writer's or devs and not used by most of the fan base.

I have provided you with the terms you can use, links to quotes from the writer's and devs and a screen shot that uses the Qunari as the racial identifier, if you want to keep using a term that's incorrect then well... just know it won't ever be used and people will correct you until you stop especially if you have an attitude.

See, you're already calling them giants!

[Spectre slayer]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

One can be Jewish by religion.
One can be Jewish by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.




One can be Qunari by religion.
One cari by race.
One can be both.
One can be neither.



Qunari is an ethno-religious term. Can be either.
When you go on the character creator, you're picking Qunari race not Qunari religion.

We don't know that. There's absolutely nothing to suggest our Qunari will be a follow of the Qun.

And see how confusing that sentence is, because I didn't bother to differentiate between race and religion?

Please, for the sake of simplicity, just use the term Kossith. Stop being so big headed and stubborn for no other reason than to argue.

Sigh no we shouldn't use the word Kossith as a racial identifier because it isn't one nor was it ever one, Kossith was the culture that predated the conversion to the Qun and it won't be used in the game anytime soon, nor will the people who actually know what they are talking about use it.

They have no modern name for their race an Gaider already said he's not going to give one, also there's no distinction between race and religion.

We’ll call them Qunari. If we feel the need to distinguish from the norm, either in terms of race or religion, we’ll do so… and the only people who’ll be confused are those who enjoy overthinking it.

dgaider.tumblr.com/post/55048374228/dragonageconfessions-confession-i-hate-how-theu

This is the second time this has been brought up today, and in this thread I included the quotes from the writer's and devs that say Kossith was the name of the culture that predates the Qun, it's improper, archaic, incorrect, antiquated technical term that only a select few of Qunari priests even knows it exists, and not even a word in their own language.

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/1

social.bioware.com/%20http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/17579439/2

[img]http://r.m.yahoo.com/api/res/1.2/5soCrpzXUS2AX56WOyA1TA--/Zmk9Zml0O2g9NDYwO3c9NDYw/http://f1630.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_5296369_AMzqHkgAAAsJUolC4gAAAKaKf4Y&fid=Inbox&pid=2[/img]

That's from the demo and it lists the racial identifier as Qunari even though they already said we will be playing as a Tal'Vashoth possibly a Vashoth that becomes a Tal'Vashoth. 

The Big Grey Giants with or without horns that follow the Qun are Qunari and only Qunari 

The Big Grey Giants that do not follow or break the Qun and are non Violent are Vashoth otherwise they're Tal'Vashoth

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun who have been newly conquered and haven't submitted are Kabethari

Non Big Grey Giants that follow the Qun and have totally submitted are called Viddathari.

He or she wasn't the one being pig headed or using complicated reasoning since this isn't very hard to understand, you are the one whose being pig headed because you don't understand this topic at all and are searching for an easy answer to something that just doesn't exist.

Since again there's no modern term, no distinction between race or religion, no one in game will even know the term exists, it's not used by most of the writer's or devs and not used by most of the fan base.

I have provided you with the terms you can use, links to quotes from the writer's and devs and a screen shot that uses the Qunari as the racial identifier, if you want to keep using a term that's incorrect then well... just know it won't ever be used and people will correct you until you stop especially if you have an attitude.

See, you're already calling them giants!

About that I mostly call them Qunari since that's what they are but for instance I have to use the terms to distinguish the Qunari( Big Grey Giant's with or without horns) from the other Qunari.

Since any race who follows the Qun is considered Qunari and especially when you have to explain the various terms, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 18 novembre 2013 - 01:07 .

[MisanthropePrime]

That's what I'm proposing: let's standardize "giant" as the term to use when referring to the race. That way we can refer to the separate, nuanced cultures of the Qunari, Tal-Vashoth, or any other grouping of such beings (there's a whole continent full of these beings that's uninterested in Thedosian affairs and may not follow the Qun at all). As we're not playing a follower of the Qun in Inqusition, I think it'd be best to call them "giants" on the character select screen.