211 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

OH GOD THE PYRAMIDS WHY

[TurretSyndrome]

The word Qunari is not the solution. The ones who are Qunari in the game, will not have a debate on this, if you notice. "You are either Qunari, or you are not" Don't remember who said that, but that basically gives you a hint on their stance.

When I said that the writer should give the race a name to better distinguish it from the others, outside the game, I was told by someone that it has to be a name recognised by the people of that race. Qunari doesn't apply to the entire race, by this logic, only to those who who follow the Qun.

The Tal-Vashoth will strike the person down before agreeing on the name, and the Qunari will never accept it as a name for the race itself.

Whether we should have a problem with the race not having a name or it being identified by "Qunari" is beside the point. Qunari is not the correct term for it.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:25 .

[Fredward]

Yah know if Gaider had any hair I could totally imagine him tearing it out every time he saw one of these threads. Personally I still don't see the problem. It's kossith for the horned people. And Qunari for people who follow the Qun who may or may not have horns. Qunari are followers of an ideology. The kossith are a race. Tal Vasoth are dissidents from aforementioned ideology. They also may or may not have horns. People are treating this like there is absolutely no context when you explain something to someone.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Except he was the one who told us that Kossith wasn't the name of the race, it was the name of the culture that predated the Qun. I think he reccomended we use Qunari or Tal'vashoth for the giants, and Elf Qunari or Human Qunari for other races that follow the Qun. The same way we might refer to a City Elf from a specific nation as Orlesian Elf or Antivan Elf.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:33 .

[Fredward]

Really? Huh. Well then it's Qunari for people who follow an ideology who may or may not have horns.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:35 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Admittedly the more this discussion goes on, the more I support the current course of action because frankly, it seems somewhat appealing that a group of individuals cannot be easily labeled.

[Fredward]

I was just thinking that if, say I was an elf that was born to the Qun and that's all I've ever known and some human walked up and insisted on strictly labelled categories of different races who belong to the Qun how offended I'd be. Like you're implying you want a clear way to refer to the "real" Qunari. They're all Qunari. Why does it matter what their race is?  The Qun seems to be the kinda thing that would expect you to categorize yourself as a follower first and everything else second.

[TurretSyndrome]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
 it seems somewhat appealing that a group of individuals cannot be easily labeled.

Well, now you're contradicting yourselves as you have *very easily* labelled the race as Qunari in your upcoming game.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:48 .

[MisanthropePrime]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Admittedly the more this discussion goes on, the more I support the current course of action because frankly, it seems somewhat appealing that a group of individuals cannot be easily labeled.

Well they can, we just haven't settled on a name.

And I get it, really- the writers want the Qunari to have an exotic otherness to them. I get it. But this is the internet, and this is a video game community: we don't leave a stone unturned.

[TurretSyndrome]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

And I get it, really- the writers want the Qunari to have an exotic otherness to them.

Neither Qunari nor Kossith are correct terms to identify the race with. The problem I see in this is that Bioware encourages all to use one and denounces the other, especially when the one being used can cause more confusion than the one not used.

I'm just pointing out that they're only contradicting themselves when explaining the correctness of these terms. I honestly don't have a problem with "Qunari" being used or with the race being "special" by not having a name entirely. 

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[MisanthropePrime]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

And I get it, really- the writers want the Qunari to have an exotic otherness to them.

Neither Qunari nor Kossith are correct terms to identify the race with. The problem I see in this is that Bioware encourages all to use one and denounces the other, especially when the one being used can cause more confusion than the one not used.

Well, no, and your response just further reinforces the problem with nomenclature we have. The writers want to maintain a sense of mystery about the Qunari culture, and to do so they refuse to find a succint name for the race that comprises the majority of Qunari society.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

iakus wrote...

I call teh race qunari. Lower case "q". Just like elf, dwarf, and human.

I call the followers of the Qun "Qunari" upper case "Q" like Andrastrian, Dalish, and Marcher.

Same here. It follows the capitalization rules I'm familiar with - religions are capitalized, and races/species names like human are not. 

I wouldn't call them giants. They're not the same as the giants I've seen in other fantasy worlds, so it would seem strange for me to call them by the same name when the game doesn't classify them as that anyway.

[Xerxes52]

Honestly I'm fine with qunari = race while Qunari = culture. Very simple and easy to remember.

[Allan Schumacher]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Neither Qunari nor Kossith are correct terms to identify the race with. The problem I see in this is that Bioware encourages all to use one and denounces the other, especially when the one being used can cause more confusion than the one not used.

While I loathe it when people get on someone's case for using the term Kossith, I also equally got frustrated when people would come in and do the same when people would use the term Qunari.  Like there was an elitism to knowing The One True Name™ because they were lore afficianados and so forth.

[Tremere]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Except he was the one who told us that Kossith wasn't the name of the race, it was the name of the culture that predated the Qun. I think he reccomended we use Qunari or Tal'vashoth for the giants, and Elf Qunari or Human Qunari for other races that follow the Qun. The same way we might refer to a City Elf from a specific nation as Orlesian Elf or Antivan Elf.

This is true and it seems like a convoluted way to keep the conversation on this subject active. From where I sit, if you accept that every person of the "yet to be named race" has embraced the ideology of the Qun or have otherwise forsaken it, then Qunari and/or Tal'Vashoth would be appropriate. The problem is that both are fixed in their application. Tal'Vashoth (by definition) are not Elves, Humans or Dwarves who've abandoned the Qun, so what would such a person be called?

Upon further reflection and research, I can accept that the application of "Kossith" is antiquated, but like "Qunari" is applied in reference to a culture/ideology of people more so than a racial identifier. Maybe we should just accept a Zen like identifier in regards to "those people" and just say that "they are"... Like their nation Par Vollen, "The nation that must be."

Yes, I know... It's a non-answer type answer, that makes about as much sense as not providing a racial identifier to a group of people in a world full of people with different races.

<_<

Modifié par GabrielXL, 19 novembre 2013 - 10:02 .

[TurretSyndrome]

MisanthropePrime wrote...
 The writers want to maintain a sense of mystery about the Qunari culture, and to do so they refuse to find a succint name for the race that comprises the majority of Qunari society.

I'm well aware of this, but it is not related to what I said. Both "Qunari" and "Kossith" are words not meant to be used as terms to define the race. Both will be technically incorrect, but Bioware uses one over the other, not to mention the one being used is the cause of the typical confusion.

[Tremere]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

And I get it, really- the writers want the Qunari to have an exotic otherness to them.

Neither Qunari nor Kossith are correct terms to identify the race with. The problem I see in this is that Bioware encourages all to use one and denounces the other, especially when the one being used can cause more confusion than the one not used.

Well, no, and your response just further reinforces the problem with nomenclature we have. The writers want to maintain a sense of mystery about the Qunari culture, and to do so they refuse to find a succint name for the race that comprises the majority of Qunari society.

^^^ This!

[Tremere]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...
 The writers want to maintain a sense of mystery about the Qunari culture, and to do so they refuse to find a succint name for the race that comprises the majority of Qunari society.

I'm well aware of this, but it is not related to what I said. Both "Qunari" and "Kossith" are words not meant to be used as terms to define the race. Both will be technically incorrect, but Bioware uses one over the other, not to mention the one being used is the cause of the typical confusion.

^^^ This!
No... Make that, ^^^ "These!"

Modifié par GabrielXL, 19 novembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[TurretSyndrome]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
While I loathe it when people get on someone's case for using the term Kossith, I also equally got frustrated when people would come in and do the same when people would use the term Qunari.  Like there was an elitism to knowing The One True Name™ because they were lore afficianados and so forth.

I know what you're talking about, I feel the same way. I hope you're not implying that I'm one of those people, as I only intend to correct those who strongly feel that "Qunari" is the right word and using anything else is an absolute sin.

[MisanthropePrime]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Neither Qunari nor Kossith are correct terms to identify the race with. The problem I see in this is that Bioware encourages all to use one and denounces the other, especially when the one being used can cause more confusion than the one not used.

While I loathe it when people get on someone's case for using the term Kossith, I also equally got frustrated when people would come in and do the same when people would use the term Qunari.  Like there was an elitism to knowing The One True Name™ because they were lore afficianados and so forth.

First of all: sorry for keeping you up so late with my rambling. The tone in this thread may get combative but I do appreciate you stopping by to chat, Allan.

Next, though, isn't the brouhaha over whether Kossith or Qunari being the "true" name for the race indicative of the fact we need a third, less-charged name for the race? And rather than invent one, why not just draw from lore that exists already and call them giants?

[Allan Schumacher]

I know what you're talking about, I feel the same way. I hope you're not implying that I'm one of those people, as I only intend to correct those who strongly feel that "Qunari" is the right word and using anything else is an absolute sin.

It's more an observation and a reminder, since the point came up more than once in this thread that people get hostile towards those that use the term Kossith.

[Allan Schumacher]

Next, though, isn't the brouhaha over whether Kossith or Qunari being the "true" name for the race indicative of the fact we need a third, less-charged name for the race? And rather than invent one, why not just draw from lore that exists already and call them giants?

Perhaps it's just my human stubbornness/spitefulness that has become increasingly okay with the use of the term.

Maybe we can consider it a social experiment in respecting people who wish to use one term or another? Which side do you think will be less belligerent and more willing to accept that it's okay for the others to refer to the race in a term that makes it clear and comfortable for them?

[HiroVoid]

Maybe one of the side-quests for Iron Bull if he's a companion is to go around Thedas spreading a new term for the Qunari/Tal Vasoth as a race rather than referring to their culture.