211 réponses à ce sujet

[windsea]

Spectre slayer wrote...

windsea wrote...

you know, i don't think the incorrect use of Qunari would be bugging me as much if they were only Kossith but Qunari are anyone who follows the Qun.

also it could get really confusing if more non-kossith Qunari show up in the future.

Not really since in the first place there's nothing called Kossith in dragon age anymore since once they converted to the Qun whatever the Kossith culture was ceased to exist a long time ago.

2nd the devs and writer's who created the universe have came out and refuted this term and gave us the proper terms to use but still you cling to this term that will never be used in game, by the writer's and devs and a majority of the fan base.

3rd it's easy to understand since again according to the writers and devs the race name is Qunari and anyone who follows the Qun is Qunari and this will not change and to be honest with you it shouldn't and here's Gaider's response on whether they should get a race name.

I’m well aware this is basically about some fans yearning for a proper, single-word label so they can argue about it online and write about it in fanfiction. Yet I’ve told you what words you can use— the ones we would use in-game and in-world— and still there are “but what if—?!” exclamations, as if coming up with enough convoluted reasoning will make the issue seem really complex and untenable.You don’t need a single word for the biological race.

If you think you do, because you need a term for the big horned people who aren’t part of the Qun (and Tal’Vashoth just doesn’t cut it for you), then use “qunari” and add a ****ing adjective — assuming you’re not a scientist trying to classify their species, that should be something available to you.

Or use “kossith” incorrectly. I’m simply saying what we will use in Dragon Age and assuming that the in-game terminology is something people would like to know. If you don’t care about that and feel you need something additional, then by all means do so.

My only issue with it has ever been when some fans school other fans on the “proper” term (and, yes, this does happen) or when fans casually use the word as if that should be meaningful to most— and then blame the lore when it causes confusion.

The word Qunari is the race, the religion and the culture all in one and there's no distinction between them and if it ever happened it won't be Kossith and you all will be even more confused if you can't grasp this.

you know when you think of it like that then the Qun is like the Borg and destroy assimilated every culture they come in contact with, so the pre-Qun Qunari had a name and culture that has probably been completely forgotten so the use of kossith, until a proper name is given in game, is a way to mock the Qunari so I think I will still use it even if it is only for that reason.

Also using Qunari and Tal-Vashoth will work for the those directly related to the Qun but it does leave out one yet unseen type of Kossith, one born outside of the Qun.

[David Gaider]

GabrielXL wrote...
Honestly, from where I sit, this is a non-sensical answer to a (deliberately) very convoluted issue/subject... And then some wonder why threads like this keep popping up. Seriously... How difficult could it have been to write:

"<insert name> are the horned, gray-skinned people/species who were formerly referred to (culturally) as the Kossith... blah, blah, blah."

That would have put this issue to rest, once and for all. Instead we have, "You could call them this or that if you want... blah, blah, blah."

Because it's not our problem.

All I've said is how the term is used in-game, and the only confusion it causes in-game is deliberate-- the Qunari insistence on exact terms, and lack of a general one, would indeed be confusing for anyone who delved into it more... but most do not. Like I've said before, most people think of them all as Qunari. That's how they'll be referenced. To most fans, that's exactly what they are.

The problem lies with fans who deliberately choose to complicate the matter. If that's what they wish to do, they're free to do so as long as they aren't forcing their views on others-- the only answer I've ever given is what is correct as per the lore, and if one thinks we're apt to change the in-game lore just to facilitate those who wish to discuss it out-of-game, think again.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 novembre 2013 - 01:08 .

[Hellion Rex]

David Gaider wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
Honestly, from where I sit, this is a non-sensical answer to a (deliberately) very convoluted issue/subject... And then some wonder why threads like this keep popping up. Seriously... How difficult could it have been to write:

"<insert name> are the horned, gray-skinned people/species who were formerly referred to (culturally) as the Kossith... blah, blah, blah."

That would have put this issue to rest, once and for all. Instead we have, "You could call them this or that if you want... blah, blah, blah."

Because it's not our problem.

All I've said is how the term is used in-game, and the only confusion it causes in-game is deliberate-- the Qunari insistence on exact terms, and lack of a general one, would indeed be confusing for anyone who delved into it more... but most do not. Like I've said before, most people think of them all as Qunari. That's how they'll be referenced. To most fans, that's exactly what they are.

The problem lies with fans who deliberately choose to complicate the matter. If that's what they wish to do, they're free to do so-- the only answer I've ever given is what is correct as per the lore, and if one thinks we're apt to change the in-game lore just to facilitate those who wish to discuss it out-of-game, think again.

Just when I think I can wrap my mind around what you guys say, someone tells me that its wrong, and I end up even more confused.

[David Gaider]

windsea wrote...
Also using Qunari and Tal-Vashoth will work for the those directly related to the Qun but it does leave out one yet unseen type of Kossith, one born outside of the Qun.

In terms of how it would play out in-game, consider this:

A human walks up to a Qunari standing in the road. "Gosh," they exclaim. "You're Qunari!"

If they are a follower of the Qun, they answer: "Yes."

If they left the Qun, they would frown and say: "No. I am Tal-Vashoth." That would confuse the human, as it's the sort of technicality that's really only meaningful to the Qunari.

If they were born out of the Qun, and didn't even know enough about the Qun to call themselves Tal-Vashoth, they answer: "Yes." Because they are indeed Qunari, insofar as they know.

The weird classifications of the Qunari are specific to those who follow the Qun, but that's part of the lore and an in-game matter. We have no trouble with it. In just about all cases, "Qunari" refers to the race unless you're actually speaking to a follower of the Qun-- in which case, it might get confusing. But then the Qunari can be stubbornly confusing about many topics.

If this makes it difficult to players to talk about it outside the game, primarily because people who refuse to recognize the existence of context will leap upon any reference to "Qunari" and go "do you mean a follower of the Qun???" ...so be it. Like I said in the previous post, it's not our conundrum. Feel free to use Kossith, so long as you realize that many people have no idea what that term means, since it doesn't come up in-game.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 novembre 2013 - 01:22 .

[Tremere]

David Gaider wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
Honestly, from where I sit, this is a non-sensical answer to a (deliberately) very convoluted issue/subject... And then some wonder why threads like this keep popping up. Seriously... How difficult could it have been to write:

"<insert name> are the horned, gray-skinned people/species who were formerly referred to (culturally) as the Kossith... blah, blah, blah."

That would have put this issue to rest, once and for all. Instead we have, "You could call them this or that if you want... blah, blah, blah."

Because it's not our problem.

All I've said is how the term is used in-game, and the only confusion it causes in-game is deliberate-- the Qunari insistence on exact terms, and lack of a general one, would indeed be confusing for anyone who delved into it more... but most do not. Like I've said before, most people think of them all as Qunari. That's how they'll be referenced. To most fans, that's exactly what they are.

The problem lies with fans who deliberately choose to complicate the matter. If that's what they wish to do, they're free to do so as long as they aren't forcing their views on others-- the only answer I've ever given is what is correct as per the lore, and if one thinks we're apt to change the in-game lore just to facilitate those who wish to discuss it out-of-game, think again.

I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on this. More specifically, it seems that your response suggests something I hadn't thought about... Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression that those who wrote the lore and the game writers worked hand in hand. Apparently this isn't (always) the case, and if I'm correct on this, it would serve to clarify why there seems to be a disconnect between events and things said in-game versus what's read (and explained) elsewhere. If I'm correct in this regard, then I have to offer an apology for being overly critical of your words and I'll just have to accept that in-game information and events can (and does), conflict with information that's provided from another source. It's hard enough to get two people to explain the same information in the exact same way as it is. With the amount of information available for the Dragon Age series, I can imagine this being extremely difficult, if not impossible. Still, you can't deny that the differences, however slight, seem to always result in a lot of misunderstanding on "our" part. In that sense, you can't be too harsh in judging our response to things "we think we know". Again... Feel free to correct me. In spite of my passionate response to things, I do not "need to be right". Mine is the search for accuracy.

All in all thanks for chiming in!

Modifié par GabrielXL, 20 novembre 2013 - 01:51 .

[David Gaider]

GabrielXL wrote...
I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on this. More specifically, it seems that your response suggests something I hadn't thought about... Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression that those who wrote the lore and the game writers worked hand in hand. Apparently this isn't (always) the case, and if I'm correct on this, it would serve to clarify why there seems to be a disconnect between events and things said in-game versus what's read (and explained) elsewhere.

You'll have to be more specific. What do you mean by "elsewhere"?

The game writers do make the lore. The only "elsewhere" I know of is the World of Thedas, and what it says about "kossith" and the use thereof is correct.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I feel like the problem and part of the reason it's confusing (or at least counter intuitive) to a lot of fans is that one would expect the Qunari themselves to need to sometimes need to describe a distinction between giant grey oxmen and all followers or the Qun, even though they are the same word.

For example, if there was ever a widespread detonation of Sar-quamek in some sort of incident and the Qunari sent in some of their own guys to clean up the mess, one of them would have to say "Keep the elves and humans away, only send in [word for Qunari race]."

Seeing as Qunari consider fully converted elves and humans to be equally "Qunari" I would expect just referring simply as "Qunari" would not sound entirely accurate. The only word I can imagine they might use is "Qunari Qunari," but that sounds a little redundant.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 20 novembre 2013 - 02:24 .

[sandalisthemaker]

David Gaider wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on this. More specifically, it seems that your response suggests something I hadn't thought about... Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression that those who wrote the lore and the game writers worked hand in hand. Apparently this isn't (always) the case, and if I'm correct on this, it would serve to clarify why there seems to be a disconnect between events and things said in-game versus what's read (and explained) elsewhere.

You'll have to be more specific. What do you mean by "elsewhere"?

The game writers do make the lore. The only "elsewhere" I know of is the World of Thedas, and what it says about "kossith" and the use thereof is correct.

Perhaps they mean non-Qunari characters in game flat out saying Qunari isn't a race.
Like Cassandra and Tallis.

[Spectre slayer]

windsea wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

windsea wrote...

you know, i don't think the incorrect use of Qunari would be bugging me as much if they were only Kossith but Qunari are anyone who follows the Qun.

also it could get really confusing if more non-kossith Qunari show up in the future.

Not really since in the first place there's nothing called Kossith in dragon age anymore since once they converted to the Qun whatever the Kossith culture was ceased to exist a long time ago.

2nd the devs and writer's who created the universe have came out and refuted this term and gave us the proper terms to use but still you cling to this term that will never be used in game, by the writer's and devs and a majority of the fan base.

3rd it's easy to understand since again according to the writers and devs the race name is Qunari and anyone who follows the Qun is Qunari and this will not change and to be honest with you it shouldn't and here's Gaider's response on whether they should get a race name.

I’m well aware this is basically about some fans yearning for a proper, single-word label so they can argue about it online and write about it in fanfiction. Yet I’ve told you what words you can use— the ones we would use in-game and in-world— and still there are “but what if—?!” exclamations, as if coming up with enough convoluted reasoning will make the issue seem really complex and untenable.You don’t need a single word for the biological race.

If you think you do, because you need a term for the big horned people who aren’t part of the Qun (and Tal’Vashoth just doesn’t cut it for you), then use “qunari” and add a ****ing adjective — assuming you’re not a scientist trying to classify their species, that should be something available to you.

Or use “kossith” incorrectly. I’m simply saying what we will use in Dragon Age and assuming that the in-game terminology is something people would like to know. If you don’t care about that and feel you need something additional, then by all means do so.

My only issue with it has ever been when some fans school other fans on the “proper” term (and, yes, this does happen) or when fans casually use the word as if that should be meaningful to most— and then blame the lore when it causes confusion.

The word Qunari is the race, the religion and the culture all in one and there's no distinction between them and if it ever happened it won't be Kossith and you all will be even more confused if you can't grasp this.

you know when you think of it like that then the Qun is like the Borg and destroy assimilated every culture they come in contact with, so the pre-Qun Qunari had a name and culture that has probably been completely forgotten so the use of kossith, until a proper name is given in game, is a way to mock the Qunari so I think I will still use it even if it is only for that reason.

Also using Qunari and Tal-Vashoth will work for the those directly related to the Qun but it does leave out one yet unseen type of Kossith, one born outside of the Qun.

Hmm you seem to be misunderstanding something and that it's not the way I think it's how it is, the Qun is basically all in one and there's not a distinction between the race or religion for them and technically you have a point but that's not a good reason to use the term Kossith.

The distinction they make is people, people who aren't things, bas sailt? to be conquered or killed, that's pretty much it, and once conquered you either have to escape, submit, or get turned into mindless slaves to work until you probably die or get killed.

Another thing it looks like they'll probably still consider themselves Qunari if they were born outside of the Qun according to Gaider though the ones who follow the Qum would what consider them to be bas something probably also what part of they don't exist anymore is that hard to understand.

Whatever the Kossith culture was it's gone, first they got turned into Orgres during the first blight and vanished for awhile, then they either partially or fully converted to the Qun or died out by 6:30 steel which was over 300 years ago.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:08 .

[Pyce]

Well to preserve continuity:
Lets say an event happened where someone was to time travel (Tevinter magic, future advancements, or The Maker just having some fun). They could not meet a Qunari but could meet a Kossith. So in game Kossith is still viable "in-game" term so to speak.

Modifié par Pyce, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:48 .

[Tremere]

David Gaider wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on this. More specifically, it seems that your response suggests something I hadn't thought about... Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was under the impression that those who wrote the lore and the game writers worked hand in hand. Apparently this isn't (always) the case, and if I'm correct on this, it would serve to clarify why there seems to be a disconnect between events and things said in-game versus what's read (and explained) elsewhere.

You'll have to be more specific. What do you mean by "elsewhere"?

The game writers do make the lore. The only "elsewhere" I know of is the World of Thedas, and what it says about "kossith" and the use thereof is correct.

"Elsewhere" in this case means not in the World of Thedas. For instance, the reference to your comments earlier in the thread. Having said this, let me offer a little clarity of my own. I fully expect the writers to know their stuff and I accept that their take on things should be where we go for clarification. In regards to this particular thread/issue, the conclusion I drew is that there is no definitive racial identifier for the large, horned, gray-skinned people who were formerly known as the Kossith. I understand that the name Qunari is what's used now to identify them, but that isn't really the question. First impressions seem to indicate that they aren't human or dwarves, so what are they? Are they the twisted experiment of a Tevinter magister who tried to combine the DNA of elvhen and oxen to create the ultimate beast of burden? Another form of elvhen? The lore (and writers) tells us that they're just Qunari, but what we also take from the lore is that Qunari are those who embrace the teachings of Koslun and embrace the Qun... Regardless of race. I personally think that in regards to those beings, it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask "what they are". If you the writer tell us "call them Qunari", we say ok, but... And here we go again.

I'll admit that knowing these things don't generally affect how I play the game or my reaction to events in-game. However, they are the means by which I immerse myself in universe. When there's a (real or perceived) disconnect between what I think I know and what I read, I can suspend disbelief to a certain degree and some things I'm prepared to take on faith, but you can't fault me for having an opinion on issues that I feel are unclear, when the lore doesn't seem to adequately explain them. Sure, you could say that fans are overthinking the issue, but if that's your stance, then you can't be too surprised that these questions get asked time and again or that people wonder about the reasoning behind the lore. Some people don't have that much faith. *chuckles*

I'm perfectly prepared to let this issue go as it is. I certainly don't intend to be the the spokesperson for this issue. At the end of the day it isn't going affect whether I purchase DA: Inquisition or not. Nor will it affect how I perceive any other lore I'm exposed to. So if you say that I should just accept Qunari as a racial identifier and be done with it, I'll shrug and continue on with a new DA2 playthrough... (Actually, I already have).

[Tremere]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I feel like the problem and part of the reason it's confusing (or at least counter intuitive) to a lot of fans is that one would expect the Qunari themselves to need to sometimes need to describe a distinction between giant grey oxmen and all followers or the Qun, even though they are the same word.

For example, if there was ever a widespread detonation of Sar-quamek in some sort of incident and the Qunari sent in some of their own guys to clean up the mess, one of them would have to say "Keep the elves and humans away, only send in [word for Qunari race]."

Seeing as Qunari consider fully converted elves and humans to be equally "Qunari" I would expect just referring simply as "Qunari" would not sound entirely accurate. The only word I can imagine they might use is "Qunari Qunari," but that sounds a little redundant.

*nods* ^^^ This!

[David Gaider]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I feel like the problem and part of the reason it's confusing (or at least counter intuitive) to a lot of fans is that one would expect the Qunari themselves to need to sometimes need to describe a distinction between giant grey oxmen and all followers or the Qun, even though they are the same word.

For example, if there was ever a widespread detonation of Sar-quamek in some sort of incident and the Qunari sent in some of their own guys to clean up the mess, one of them would have to say "Keep the elves and humans away, only send in [word for Qunari race]."

Seeing as Qunari consider fully converted elves and humans to be equally "Qunari" I would expect just referring simply as "Qunari" would not sound entirely accurate. The only word I can imagine they might use is "Qunari Qunari," but that sounds a little redundant.

You say that like redundancy isn't something the Qunari would embrace whole-heartedly.

Do you actually want an answer for how Qunlat would deal with that? Or is this one of those situations where you would keep coming up with scenarios that seem to require a simple linquistic term where one doesn't exist?

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:17 .

[Afro_Explosion]

I honestly dont get the confusion its like an ethno-religous term with multiple species to everyone they're just qunari

Modifié par mx_keep13, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:28 .

[Firky]

David Gaider wrote...

If they were born out of the Qun, and didn't even know enough about the Qun to call themselves Tal-Vashoth, they answer: "Yes." Because they are indeed Qunari, insofar as they know.

This. I've been wanting to know if this is a) possible, Inquisition's protagonist.

(I assume there won't be an answer, but I'm still curious.)

[David Gaider]

GabrielXL wrote...
"Elsewhere" in this case means not in the World of Thedas. For instance, the reference to your comments earlier in the thread.

I... have no idea what that means, unless you're like that one fan who demanded I source my own statements.

In regards to this particular thread/issue, the conclusion I drew is that there is no definitive racial identifier for the large, horned, gray-skinned people who were formerly known as the Kossith.

Correct. The Qunari have a complex naming system that treats identity in a very particular manner-- something that no-one who is unfamiliar with it would have any knowledge about. It's only when you start talking to a follower of the Qun or someone who knows about them that it becomes confusing, even if it's not to them... hence the rather bizarre conversations one might have with Sten or with another Qunari about definitions.

I understand that the name Qunari is what's used now to identify them, but that isn't really the question. First impressions seem to indicate that they aren't human or dwarves, so what are they?

An interesting question, but irrelevant.

When there's a (real or perceived) disconnect between what I think I know and what I read, I can suspend disbelief to a certain degree and some things I'm prepared to take on faith, but you can't fault me for having an opinion on issues that I feel are unclear, when the lore doesn't seem to adequately explain them. Sure, you could say that fans are overthinking the issue, but if that's your stance, then you can't be too surprised that these questions get asked time and again or that people wonder about the reasoning behind the lore. Some people don't have that much faith. *chuckles*

Oh, I understand. The Qunari are designed to be very alien in their outlook, and since they're also not inclined to explain themselves at length to outsiders they're going to seem impenetrable. All I can ever really say is that it works fine for us writers, as we understand the system just as they do. I can only explain how the lore will apply in-game, and you folks can do with that as you will.

If someone says that Qunari terminlogy is confusing, however, all I can say is "yes". If that someone suggests I come up with terms so people can talk about it outside the game, I don't really see the point... neither for fans who evidently recoil at the idea of using an adjective, nor for us in adding to the lore just for the sake of forumites. I can't really put it plainer than that... and, to be honest, have addressed this issue far more than it deserves.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

No, I am legitimately curious as to how the Qunari would speak that or any similar situation. I think any scenario where Qunari physiology is somehow pertinent to a dilemma would serve my point. Would another type of situation need to be said differently in Qunlat?

Given how different Qunari can be from other races,  I would imagine that might come up fairly often if Qunari have to account for the differing biolgical needs of their citizens. Human Qunari can't survive without water for as long as a Qunari Qunari, for instance.

I mean, even World of Thedas (since it is written in English, I guess) seems to struggle with how to refer to the giant horned guys. On one page it clearly explains how "Kossith" is an antiquated term that nobody uses and few even know, but on a later page it uses Kossith as the word to describe which race are mostly commonly members of the Tal'vashoth.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[Pyce]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I think things would've gone smoother if the choice to make the name a religion and the name of a species the same word wasn't made.

Just my two cents.

Smoother but in a way less exciting. I find it wonderful that discusions can be made over Qunari. It's great when lore gets to be debated. All aspects of a foreign idea are taken apart and examinded. Debated and coming to a cosenus to be sundered agaion and be reexamined.

[Tremere]

David Gaider wrote...

GabrielXL wrote...
"Elsewhere" in this case means not in the World of Thedas. For instance, the reference to your comments earlier in the thread.

I... have no idea what that means, unless you're like that one fan who demanded I source my own statements.

In regards to this particular thread/issue, the conclusion I drew is that there is no definitive racial identifier for the large, horned, gray-skinned people who were formerly known as the Kossith.

Correct. The Qunari have a complex naming system that treats identity in a very particular manner-- something that no-one who is unfamiliar with it would have any knowledge about. It's only when you start talking to a follower of the Qun or someone who knows about them that it becomes confusing, even if it's not to them... hence the rather bizarre conversations one might have with Sten or with another Qunari about definitions.

I understand that the name Qunari is what's used now to identify them, but that isn't really the question. First impressions seem to indicate that they aren't human or dwarves, so what are they?

An interesting question, but irrelevant.

When there's a (real or perceived) disconnect between what I think I know and what I read, I can suspend disbelief to a certain degree and some things I'm prepared to take on faith, but you can't fault me for having an opinion on issues that I feel are unclear, when the lore doesn't seem to adequately explain them. Sure, you could say that fans are overthinking the issue, but if that's your stance, then you can't be too surprised that these questions get asked time and again or that people wonder about the reasoning behind the lore. Some people don't have that much faith. *chuckles*

Oh, I understand. The Qunari are designed to be very alien in their outlook, and since they're also not inclined to explain themselves at length to outsiders they're going to seem impenetrable. All I can ever really say is that it works fine for us writers, as we understand the system just as they do. I can only explain how the lore will apply in-game, and you folks can do with that as you will.

If someone says that Qunari terminlogy is confusing, however, all I can say is "yes". If that someone suggests I come up with terms so people can talk about it outside the game, I don't really see the point... neither for fans who evidently recoil at the idea of using an adjective, nor for us in adding to the lore just for the sake of forumites. I can't really put it plainer than that... and, to be honest, have addressed this issue far more than it deserves.

Very well... I'll accept that any information regarding the Qunari is intended to be "not fully understood". On that note, I agree... This issue has been addressed far more than it should have. And *laughs* "NO", I'm not like that one fan. Thanks for your time all the same.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 20 novembre 2013 - 04:35 .

[windsea]

Spectre slayer wrote...

Hmm you seem to be misunderstanding something and that it's not the way I think it's how it is, the Qun is basically all in one and there's not a distinction between the race or religion for them and technically you have a point but that's not a good reason to use the term Kossith.

The distinction they make is people, people who aren't things, bas sailt? to be conquered or killed, that's pretty much it, and once conquered you either have to escape, submit, or get turned into mindless slaves to work until you probably die or get killed.

Another thing it looks like they'll probably still consider themselves Qunari if they were born outside of the Qun according to Gaider though the ones who follow the Qun would what consider them to be bas something probably also what part of they don't exist anymore is that hard to understand.

Whatever the Kossith culture was it's gone, first they got turned into Orgres during the first blight and vanished for awhile, then they either partially or fully converted to the Qun or died out by 6:30 steel which was over 300 years ago.

come on, blind hate of their lack of freedom, lack of respect for their own history, and lack of respect for other's cultures (not that anybody in thedas does) are good reasons to mock them.

And i get what you are saying but i'm now starting think that, to them, Qunari is not the name for their race at all but most Kossith follow the Qun and the few who don't are vashoth that there is no longer a need for a race name. For example the Fex on par vollen seem to be completely assimilated by the Qunari so they may also no longer use the name Fex anymore like the way Kossith do not use Kossith. But that is just how it seems to me.

edited

Modifié par windsea, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[windsea]

David Gaider wrote...

windsea wrote...
Also using Qunari and Tal-Vashoth will work for the those directly related to the Qun but it does leave out one yet unseen type of Kossith, one born outside of the Qun.

In terms of how it would play out in-game, consider this:

A human walks up to a Qunari standing in the road. "Gosh," they exclaim. "You're Qunari!"

If they are a follower of the Qun, they answer: "Yes."

If they left the Qun, they would frown and say: "No. I am Tal-Vashoth." That would confuse the human, as it's the sort of technicality that's really only meaningful to the Qunari.

If they were born out of the Qun, and didn't even know enough about the Qun to call themselves Tal-Vashoth, they answer: "Yes." Because they are indeed Qunari, insofar as they know.

The weird classifications of the Qunari are specific to those who follow the Qun, but that's part of the lore and an in-game matter. We have no trouble with it. In just about all cases, "Qunari" refers to the race unless you're actually speaking to a follower of the Qun-- in which case, it might get confusing. But then the Qunari can be stubbornly confusing about many topics.

If this makes it difficult to players to talk about it outside the game, primarily because people who refuse to recognize the existence of context will leap upon any reference to "Qunari" and go "do you mean a follower of the Qun???" ...so be it. Like I said in the previous post, it's not our conundrum. Feel free to use Kossith, so long as you realize that many people have no idea what that term means, since it doesn't come up in-game.

i see.

so the solution is simple

we just need to say

Qunari (race) when talk about the race and Qunari (people) when talking about the followers of the Qun

also i'm slowly building up some angry towards them, i may have to replay dragon age 2

[MisanthropePrime]

I get the distinct feeling that you're a masochist, Mr. Gaider. If not, I'm sorry for causing you some undue trouble and hope we (this is a collective, BSN-encompassing 'we') can maintain a civil tone and not have to lock this thread.

Now, hopefully you see this and can do a thought experiment with me. Let's go back in time, back to around first contact between humanity and elves.

A human walks up to an elf standing in the road. "Gosh," they exclaim. "You're an elf!"

If they are a a slave to humans or otherwise attuned to human culture, they answer: "Yes."

If they are independent of humanity (say, a citizen of Arlathan), they would frown and say: "No. I am Elvhen." That would confuse the human, as it's the sort of technicality that's really only meaningful to the Elves.

Do you get what I'm saying here? Humans don't care what the elves called themselves (and while, to us English speakers, "Elvhen" looks similar to "Elf" I'm not sure if the words are cognate in Tevene- can you chime in on that?), and furthermore, they don't care about the cultural nuances and logic of those societies. The Qunari may not care what "race" they are, but humanity might. And considering that humans in Ferelden do indeed call Qunari giants, I don't understand why we (this goes for the community primarily) cannot refer to them as simply "giants", by the same logic that elves and dwarves got their common names. This would get rid of any ambiguity.

EDIT: Actually, I just remembered a short bit by Louis C.K. that perfectly encompasses what I want to say, how elves got their name in the DA setting and how, theoretically, "Qunari" might be referred to as "giants". Replace "White people" with "humans", "America" with "Thedas" and "Elves" with "Indians"


The way I see it, "giant" is the race and "Qunari", "Tal-Vashoth" and even "Kossith" are the cultures or, perhaps in game terms, "origins" for those races ("Kossith" being akin somewhat to, say, Alamarri), in the same way that a human might be "Ferelden" or "Orlesian" or even a noble and a commoner.

Modifié par MisanthropePrime, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:08 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Dalish still refer to themselves as elves. In fact they seem to think "Elvhen" has a distinct meaning from "elf." Seeing as they refer to themselves as the "last of the Elvhen" I think they consider it to mean having elven culture.

[The Xand]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

I get the distinct feeling that you're a masochist, Mr. Gaider. If not, I'm sorry for causing you some undue trouble and hope we (this is a collective, BSN-encompassing 'we') can maintain a civil tone and not have to lock this thread.

Now, hopefully you see this and can do a thought experiment with me. Let's go back in time, back to around first contact between humanity and elves.

A human walks up to an elf standing in the road. "Gosh," they exclaim. "You're an elf!"

If they are a a slave to humans or otherwise attuned to human culture, they answer: "Yes."

If they are independent of humanity (say, a citizen of Arlathan), they would frown and say: "No. I am Elvhen." That would confuse the human, as it's the sort of technicality that's really only meaningful to the Elves.

Do you get what I'm saying here? Humans don't care what the elves called themselves (and while, to us English speakers, "Elvhen" looks similar to "Elf" I'm not sure if the words are cognate in Tevene- can you chime in on that?), and furthermore, they don't care about the cultural nuances and logic of those societies. The Qunari may not care what "race" they are, but humanity might. And considering that humans in Ferelden do indeed call Qunari giants, I don't understand why we (this goes for the community primarily) cannot refer to them as simply "giants", by the same logic that elves and dwarves got their common names. This would get rid of any ambiguity.

EDIT: Actually, I just remembered a short bit by Louis C.K. that perfectly encompasses what I want to say, how elves got their name in the DA setting and how, theoretically, "Qunari" might be referred to as "giants". Replace "White people" with "humans", "America" with "Thedas" and "Elves" with "Indians"


The way I see it, "giant" is the race and "Qunari", "Tal-Vashoth" and even "Kossith" are the cultures or, perhaps in game terms, "origins" for those races ("Kossith" being akin somewhat to, say, Avvar), in the same way that a human might be "Ferelden" or "Orlesian" or even a noble and a commoner.

The human race name for Qunari is Qunari.