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[Abraham_uk]

The Xand wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Not complicated but it's racist and could get you killed.
Tal Vashoth don't like being called "Qunari".

It's not racist and even the Tal Vashoth are defined by the Qun, having once been Qunari. Rebel Qunari are still Qunari of sorts. Like how Satanists are weird anti-Christians.

So here is another analogy.  

A Christian decides they no longer believe in the Christian doctrines.
You go up to said person and still call them a Christian.

Oh it's okay. We humans are all christians (even though we're not). Jesus still loves you.

It's a great way to anger people who used to be Christian.
The Tal Vashoth abandoned the Qunari religion. So to call them Qunari is very deeply offensive.

I hope I am still within the bounds of BSN rules. I'm not trying to derail the thread. Just trying to use an analogy to illustrate my point.

[The Xand]

Calling them Qunari might be offensive to them, but they're former Qunari and still going to be seen as Qunari by the other races anyways, whether they like it or not. It's an ethnic term as well as a religious one. A Jewish man might be an atheist but still be considered Jewish.

Modifié par The Xand, 21 novembre 2013 - 01:03 .

[Nefla]

These arguments always make me want to beat my brains out against the wall. A word being the same for a race and a religion is a very simple concept that even a child could understand and people are being stupid about it on purpose. Context makes things even easier to understand, and using the extra terms such as Tal'Vashoth and viddithari make it impossible to misunderstand. Why do we feel the need to cling to fake ignorance? Just so we can be hipsters with our secret word that none of the mundanes know (Kossith)? That's what it feels like.

[Shadow Fox]

Qunari
Elven Qunari
Dwarven Qunari
Human Qunari

Simple

[Abraham_uk]

 Awkward Situation


Inquisitor: So... What's it like?

Tal Vashoth: What's what like?

Inquisitor: Being a Qunari in the Tivinter Empire.

Tal Vashoth: First I briefly lived in the Tivinter Empire as a slave when I ran away from home! Secondly I am not a Qunari! Look at me! I am not a Qunari! I was never part of the Qunari! You know nothing about me! You know nothing about my people. You hear me?

Inquisitor: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend. So does that make you Tal Vashoth then?

Tal Vashoth: Tal Vashoth is an insult. It has connotations that you'd never comprehend. 

Inquisitor: So what do I call you?

Tal Vashoth: You don't. Is this too much to understand. You don't call me a Qunari. You don't call me a Tal Vashoth. You don't call me a giant! You don't call me anything. I am a person! Why is that so hard to understand?

Inquisitor: Surely you have a name that I can address you by.

Tal Vashoth: It's funny. Because I never addressed you by a name, or race or anything. Why do you feel the need to address people by a label. My name is personal. I only tell people I trust my true name. You don't have to call me anything. Do you understand?

Inquisitor: So let's say there are three people who refused to be addressed. I want to garner the attention of one of the three people. Do I simply point to them and say "hey you!"

Tal Vashoth: No. You simply remain silent and realise that some people don't want to be addressed. That fact you do not know their names shows that you are a stranger. We do not associate ourselves with strangers. You merely don't address us.

Inquisitor: So I can never get to know you.

Tal Vashoth: No. As long as you remain ignorant, you'll never know anything about my people. To learn about my people you must abandon all labels and all assumptions about my people. They are not all alike. They do not think alike. They have names but they will never tell you. Simple.

Inquisitor: Could you tell me about your people?

Tal Vashoth: Go read a book. I'm done talking to you.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 21 novembre 2013 - 01:40 .

[Abraham_uk]

 Okay about those people who are not Qunari but look like Qunari.

Never call them Qunari: because they're not Qunari
Never call them Tal Vashoth: because Tal Vashoth is an insult
Never call them Kossith: because this is a dated word that no longer applies
Never call them Grey Giants: because that is racist.
Never call them horn headed: because that is racist


If you label them, that automatically puts you in bad stead with them.
If you know their name address them by their name.
If you don't know their name, do not talk to them because you are a stranger to them.

How do you find out their name? They tell you.


That is how it works.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 21 novembre 2013 - 01:28 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Abraham_uk wrote...

 Okay about those people who are not Qunari but look like Qunari.

Never call them Qunari: because they're not Qunari
Never call them Tal Vashoth: because Tal Vashoth is an insult
Never call them Kossith: because this is a dated word that no longer applies


If you label them, that automatically puts you in bad stead with them.
If you know their name address them by their name.
If you don't know their name, do not talk to them because you are a stranger to them.

That is how it works.

I quite like that, and your piece above. The flaw for me is, it's all predicated on the idea that the person talking to them both cares what they think and is going to be able to work this out through all their own cultural biases. That I don't see.

[Shadow Fox]

Abraham_uk wrote...

 Awkward Situation


Inquisitor: So... What's it like?

Tal Vashoth: What's what like?

Inquisitor: Being a Qunari in the Tivinter Empire.

Tal Vashoth: First I briefly lived in the Tivinter Empire as a slave when I ran away from home! Secondly I am not a Qunari! Look at me! I am not a Qunari! I was never part of the Qunari! You know nothing about me! You know nothing about my people. You hear me?

Inquisitor: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend. So does that make you Tal Vashoth then?

Tal Vashoth: Tal Vashoth is an insult. It is a label placed upon those who rebel against the Qunari. 

Inquisitor: So what do I call you?

Tal Vashoth: You don't. Is this too much to understand. You don't call me a Qunari. You don't call me a Tal Vashoth. You don't call me a giant! You don't call me anything. I am a person! Why is that so hard to understand?

Inquisitor: Surely you have a name that I can address you by.

Tal Vashoth: It's funny. Because I never addressed you by a name, or race or anything. Why do you feel the need to address people by a label. My name is personal. I only tell people I trust my true name. You don't have to call me anything. Do you understand?

Inquisitor: So let's say there are three people who refused to be addressed. I want to garner the attention of one of the three people. Do I simply point to them and say "hey you!"

Tal Vashoth: No. You simply remain silent and realise that some people don't want to be addressed. That fact you do not know their names shows that you are a stranger. We do not associate ourselves with strangers. You merely don't address us.

Inquisitor: So I can never get to know you.

Tal Vashoth: No. As long as you remain ignorant, you'll never know anything about my people. To learn about my people you must abandon all labels and all assumptions about my people. They are not all alike. They do not think alike. They have names but they will never tell you. Simple.

Inquisitor: Could you tell me about your people?

Tal Vashoth: Go read a book. I'm done talking to you.

Qunari Inquisitor: That is one sensitive Qunari...
Varric: Yup

[EmperorSahlertz]

Abraham_uk wrote...

 Okay about those people who are not Qunari but look like Qunari.

Never call them Qunari: because they're not Qunari
Never call them Tal Vashoth: because Tal Vashoth is an insult
Never call them Kossith: because this is a dated word that no longer applies
Never call them Grey Giants: because that is racist.
Never call them horn headed: because that is racist


If you label them, that automatically puts you in bad stead with them.
If you know their name address them by their name.
If you don't know their name, do not talk to them because you are a stranger to them.

How do you find out their name? They tell you.


That is how it works.

Tal Vasoth is a label they picked for themselves. It was not the Qunari who came up with that term.

[Abraham_uk]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

 Okay about those people who are not Qunari but look like Qunari.

Never call them Qunari: because they're not Qunari
Never call them Tal Vashoth: because Tal Vashoth is an insult
Never call them Kossith: because this is a dated word that no longer applies
Never call them Grey Giants: because that is racist.
Never call them horn headed: because that is racist


If you label them, that automatically puts you in bad stead with them.
If you know their name address them by their name.
If you don't know their name, do not talk to them because you are a stranger to them.

How do you find out their name? They tell you.


That is how it works.

Tal Vasoth is a label they picked for themselves. It was not the Qunari who came up with that term.

Sorry. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[Shadow Fox]

Abraham_uk wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

 Okay about those people who are not Qunari but look like Qunari.

Never call them Qunari: because they're not Qunari
Never call them Tal Vashoth: because Tal Vashoth is an insult
Never call them Kossith: because this is a dated word that no longer applies
Never call them Grey Giants: because that is racist.
Never call them horn headed: because that is racist


If you label them, that automatically puts you in bad stead with them.
If you know their name address them by their name.
If you don't know their name, do not talk to them because you are a stranger to them.

How do you find out their name? They tell you.


That is how it works.

Tal Vasoth is a label they picked for themselves. It was not the Qunari who came up with that term.

Sorry. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

Who'd get offended over this?

[Dianjabla]

David Gaider wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

For example, if there was ever a widespread detonation of Sar-quamek in some sort of incident and the Qunari sent in some of their own guys to clean up the mess, one of them would have to say "Keep the elves and humans away, only send in [word for Qunari race]."

Seeing as Qunari consider fully converted elves and humans to be equally "Qunari" I would expect just referring simply as "Qunari" would not sound entirely accurate. The only word I can imagine they might use is "Qunari Qunari," but that sounds a little redundant.

You say that like redundancy isn't something the Qunari would embrace whole-heartedly.

Do you actually want an answer for how Qunlat would deal with that?

I don't actually care too much about whole technical term for the horned Qunari issue, but how the Qunlat would deal with it? that does actually sound pretty interesting. The Arishok was my favourite non-companion NPC in the series. (Well ok, a close 2nd after Flemeth.) Simultaneously frustrating and fascinating.