84 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Rasofe wrote...
Don't know about everyone else, but my disapproval of Ashley isn't because she doesn't trust Shepard, I can safely say it only got to that point in my later playthroughs. I don't like Ash because my Shepard was going to be an anthropocentrist, kind of like the Illusive Man and Miranda, but Ash isn't like that. She's just xenophobic. Then she complains about Cerberus for basically following through on the "sic your dog on them and run" philosophy while they at least evaluate the situation and have a clear goal in mind. It's a pretty rubbish goal, sure, but there's reason involved. Ashley's attitude is unreasonable, it's tied to a conflict that happened in the dawn of the ME universe humanity and an injustice that was forced on her by the Alliance and not by the aliens. Also, the way she just shrugs of any insults you throw at her but goes insane if she thinks you're an item and unfaithful pisses me off.

She doesn't like Cerberus because they go to violent extremes to see to their goals, trampling humans and aliens alike.  Far beyond "look out for your own people first", they slaughter fellow humans as quickly as aliens.

"They claim to stand for humanity, and do this to their own people"

Ashley's views were that humanity needs to stand strong on its own, not be dependant on outside forces like the Council.

And the "dawn of the ME universe for humanity" was less than forty years earlier.  Still a living memory for humanity and a sore spot for both humans and turians

[Iakus]

oQUETZALCOATLo wrote...

Well yeah I can see where your coming from, but I think we owe that inconsistancy to the writers who favorited Liara and left out A LOT of content that should have gone with the VS

yeah the VS gets almost no content following the coup.  Ash especially.  And her topics are restricted to safe, noncontraversial stuf like her family.
 
And getting drunk.

[jtav]

Kaidan actually gets at least one standout moment after Jacob's mission. The problem is that Jay and strong female characters don't mix.

[Rasofe]

iakus wrote...

Rasofe wrote...
Don't know about everyone else, but my disapproval of Ashley isn't because she doesn't trust Shepard, I can safely say it only got to that point in my later playthroughs. I don't like Ash because my Shepard was going to be an anthropocentrist, kind of like the Illusive Man and Miranda, but Ash isn't like that. She's just xenophobic. Then she complains about Cerberus for basically following through on the "sic your dog on them and run" philosophy while they at least evaluate the situation and have a clear goal in mind. It's a pretty rubbish goal, sure, but there's reason involved. Ashley's attitude is unreasonable, it's tied to a conflict that happened in the dawn of the ME universe humanity and an injustice that was forced on her by the Alliance and not by the aliens. Also, the way she just shrugs of any insults you throw at her but goes insane if she thinks you're an item and unfaithful pisses me off.

She doesn't like Cerberus because they go to violent extremes to see to their goals, trampling humans and aliens alike.  Far beyond "look out for your own people first", they slaughter fellow humans as quickly as aliens.

"They claim to stand for humanity, and do this to their own people"

Ashley's views were that humanity needs to stand strong on its own, not be dependant on outside forces like the Council.

And the "dawn of the ME universe for humanity" was less than forty years earlier.  Still a living memory for humanity and a sore spot for both humans and turians

She shot Wrex and not once did the game ever acknowledge that since. Nope, all the blame goes on Shepard. No remorse - just gunned down one of the most intelligent and brave characters in the game while exclaiming a one-liner.
I'm not going to argue about this. Taking all of Ashley's words at face value and not just skimming up the stuff she said to correct herself when confronted I consider her a very, very bad image of people who believe that humanity must stand on its own.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Rasofe wrote...

oQUETZALCOATLo wrote...

Yeah it did you had to choose Liara or VS and I would have felt bad about it for about five seconds then saved Ashley. And I've never figured out the hatred pointed at Ashley for not trusting Shepard, for what two missions? doesn't Kaiden do the exact same thing? And even if he didn't, if your superior officer branches off and joins a terrorist group known for making zombies, husks, thorian creepers, starting biotic concentration camps for kids and assassinating military officials I'm gonna go ahead and assume you'd be skeptical when one: He starts commanding you in the middle of a terrorist operation and two: he blows up half the citadel and wants to kill the guy you're supposed to be protecting.

Don't know about everyone else, but my disapproval of Ashley isn't because she doesn't trust Shepard, I can safely say it only got to that point in my later playthroughs. I don't like Ash because my Shepard was going to be an anthropocentrist, kind of like the Illusive Man and Miranda, but Ash isn't like that. She's just xenophobic. Then she complains about Cerberus for basically following through on the "sic your dog on them and run" philosophy while they at least evaluate the situation and have a clear goal in mind. It's a pretty rubbish goal, sure, but there's reason involved. Ashley's attitude is unreasonable, it's tied to a conflict that happened in the dawn of the ME universe humanity and an injustice that was forced on her by the Alliance and not by the aliens. Also, the way she just shrugs of any insults you throw at her but goes insane if she thinks you're an item and unfaithful pisses me off.

Wow. I actually completely agree with this post.

[Rasofe]

StreetMagic wrote...

Shepard (optionally), Kelly Chambers, Jack, Anderson, and Kahlee do the "humanity thing" better than others, but without being xenophobic. To me at least. That's my 2c/humble opinion. I think Ash can learn to be like the above (and maybe she kind of has finally).. but in ME1, he attitude is shaped more by inexperience than anything. She hasn't even been around aliens much.

Um... Jack? Kahlee?
I don't think I follow. Is this a different kind of humanity thing.

@MassivelyEffective
My posts are hit or miss, that's the whole idea.

[Iakus]

Rasofe wrote...

She shot Wrex and not once did the game ever acknowledge that since. Nope, all the blame goes on Shepard. No remorse - just gunned down one of the most intelligent and brave characters in the game while exclaiming a one-liner.

So?  If that happens it's because Shepard was unwilling or unable to talk Wrex down.  By the time events escalate to that point, there's no other recourse but for Sehpard to do it him/herself.

Interestingly, at the Citadel DLC party, Wrex and Ash can talk about VIrmire.  Wrex asks her if she really would have shot him.  Ash replies "If I thought I had to, yes"  And Wrex respects her for that!

 

I'm not going to argue about this. Taking all of Ashley's words at face value and not just skimming up the stuff she said to correct herself when confronted I consider her a very, very bad image of people who believe that humanity must stand on its own.

I dn't agree with everything she says, but I'll take her image over Cerberus' "it all seemed harmless" any day.

[Rasofe]

StreetMagic wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Shepard (optionally), Kelly Chambers, Jack, Anderson, and Kahlee do the "humanity thing" better than others, but without being xenophobic. To me at least. That's my 2c/humble opinion. I think Ash can learn to be like the above (and maybe she kind of has finally).. but in ME1, he attitude is shaped more by inexperience than anything. She hasn't even been around aliens much.

Um... Jack? Kahlee?
I don't think I follow. Is this a different kind of humanity thing.

@MassivelyEffective
My posts are hit or miss, that's the whole idea.

Yeah, Jack. She's a rugged individualist, but still hates Cerberus. She still stands up for human efforts at times though. Talk to those b!tchy Asari in ME2 (the ones who can't get a boarding pass), if you let the Council die. She threatens them with a "dirt nap". She doesn't like people talking crap about what Shepard or humans did there. As for Kahlee, she's like a paragon for human research/human development. Hence why it's the "Ascension" program. It's all about forging a better future/ascension for humans. Just not in a hateful/exclusive way, like Cerberus (Jack only gets a nod here, just for being associated with her now).

That would make Zaeed the defender of mankind because his response to the asari is "Look me in the eye and say that again." Presumably if they did he'd kill them where they stood.

I don't know much about Sanders. There's some novels about her and Anderson but I never read them.

[Rasofe]

Can't argue with that. My favourites are still Kaidan and Miranda though.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

StreetMagic wrote...

Rasofe wrote...
That would make Zaeed the defender of mankind because his response to the asari is "Look me in the eye and say that again." Presumably if they did he'd kill them where they stood.

I don't know much about Sanders. There's some novels about her and Anderson but I never read them.

Zaeed is. He's a badass human who survived the worst Terminus could throw at him. That's something worth celebrating. But yet, he doesn't like Cerberus either. He can't recall how many he's killed. Heh. He's brutal, but he's very much in the middle ground, as far racial stuff goes.

I get the feeling he doesn't hate Cerberus for what they are or what they do so much as they've probably pissed him off multiple times. As soon as they forward him credits though, he's back on their side. 

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 23 novembre 2013 - 12:44 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Rasofe wrote...
That would make Zaeed the defender of mankind because his response to the asari is "Look me in the eye and say that again." Presumably if they did he'd kill them where they stood.

I don't know much about Sanders. There's some novels about her and Anderson but I never read them.

Zaeed is. He's a badass human who survived the worst Terminus could throw at him. That's something worth celebrating. But yet, he doesn't like Cerberus either. He can't recall how many he's killed. Heh. He's brutal, but he's very much in the middle ground, as far racial stuff goes.

I get the feeling he doesn't hate Cerberus for what they are or what they do so much as they've probably pissed him off multiple times. As soon as they forward him credits though, he's back on their side. 

I always got the impression him killing Cerberus operatives was just plain business.

[Rasofe]

So this is still an Ashley thread, right?

[Ryzaki]

iakus wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

She shot Wrex and not once did the game ever acknowledge that since. Nope, all the blame goes on Shepard. No remorse - just gunned down one of the most intelligent and brave characters in the game while exclaiming a one-liner.

So?  If that happens it's because Shepard was unwilling or unable to talk Wrex down.  By the time events escalate to that point, there's no other recourse but for Sehpard to do it him/herself.

Interestingly, at the Citadel DLC party, Wrex and Ash can talk about VIrmire.  Wrex asks her if she really would have shot him.  Ash replies "If I thought I had to, yes"  And Wrex respects her for that!

Wrex comes from a race where debates are settled by either killing each other or fighting each other. Of COURSE he respects her for that. (That said that smug "no you won't" when she shoots him in the back isn't anything to be respected over.)

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

So this is still an Ashley thread, right?

Nah, lets just talk about Zaeed now.

Same skillset anyways.

Zaeed's sexier though.

[Iakus]

Rasofe wrote...

So this is still an Ashley thread, right?

Yeah, but rapidly mutating into a "Bash Ash" thread.

Inevitible, it seems

[Rasofe]

I'm too indifferent towards Zaeed. I like how he has his own Renegade interrupts and a lot of personality, but he and Shepard are mostly just acquaintances. Similarly with Kasumi, but my tissue with her is that I don't really know why she's on the mission... kind of like I don't know why people keep potted plants around. It doesn't hurt, but why?

[Rasofe]

iakus wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

So this is still an Ashley thread, right?

Yeah, but rapidly mutating into a "Bash Ash" thread.

Inevitible, it seems

People react as they do.