Hazegurl wrote...
I actually agree with this completely. I'm not saying the abuse wasn't Eamon's fault and being raised a certain way does factor into it. But once you become an adult you have to look for ways to do things differently etc. Alistair doesn't do that. He still allows himself to be told what to do. He still places himself in that position. Even the Warden hardening him is still him doing what he's told. There just comes a time when being a victim has to end. Otherwise you just become a part of the problem.
I agree that as adults people should look for ways to do things differently. But again, this isn't something that will necessarily occur to someone, and it shouldn't be expected to. Sometimes it takes having this brought to their attention by an external force. Humans are funny this way. I think that's exactly what Alistair's hardening moment is. I don't see it at all as Alistair still just doing what he's told. He'll even tell you as much if you pick the relevant dialogue option.
I can't give Alistair a free pas for grieving. People lose loved ones in wars and considering their circumstances it was his time to step up to the plate and show Duncan and the Grey Wardens that their deaths weren't for nothing. But instead he hangs back and gives the tasks to someone else cause he can't/won't do the job. It doesn't stop him from passing judgment and telling you what a Grey Warden is supposed to do or be. Well Alistair, since you know so much about being a Grey Warden to the point where you can judge someone's actions as not making them Grey Warden material then step up and take the position.
I don't give him a free pass so much as I just understand that he's incapable, at that point, of doing what he ought. I can rail against him for what he SHOULD be doing all I want but that won't magically fix whatever in him that's broken. But again, Alistair's got several things working against him, here. It's not JUST the sudden trauma of losing not just Duncan but
all of his friends in one fell swoop, but also that the tragedy came as a result not of typical wartime casualties, but of treachery (in Alistair's eyes, I'm not interested here in debating Loghain's actions) from a man Alistair clearly respected, AND the fact of his crippling self-doubt. Alistair never believed he was capable of leading; the loss of Duncan left him grieving but I think it also vastly reinforced Alistair's feelings of inadequacy.
As a completely irrelevant aside: I lost my father a while ago, and I was expected to be the strong one for my mother and Dad's friends. I was a near-catatonic emotional wreck and couldn't do it. So that my color my opinion of Alistair. It's not quite the same scenario but I can completely understand how grief could render a person useless.
I totally agree. I never trusted Eamon and only save Redcliffe when I have hardened Alistair and place him on the throne. Cause Alistair would need powerful allies regardless of their motives for seeing him on the throne. But when my Male Warden plans to marry Anora. Redcliffe burns. 
Ha! I only place Alistair on the throne when he's hardened, with either a Cousland Warden as his wife or his counselor. I don't ever leave him in a position where Eamon will have unbuffered influence and properly I prefer to cut Eamon out of the picture altogether. But lately I've decided I'm not keen on putting Alistair on the throne at all, since he clearly doesn't want it.
Coddling doesn't work either, as we see in game if the Warden chooses to comfort him about his sister instead of giving him the cold hard truth. I don't believe Alistair deserves scorn but considering the circumstances they are in no one has time to coach him on his self-esteem and hold his hand about Duncan. I will admit that my sympathy for Alistair is usually based on my Warden's background. I find that my mages sympathize with him more while my City Elf doesn't give two figs either way, and my Couslands (mainly the male) have zero patience for him and his hang ups. He watched his family get brutally slaughtered and now have to fight for his life and try to end a Blight. So Alistair crying over Duncan means less than nothing to him.
I can agree with that, though for me my Couslands tend to be sympathetic to him because they know what it's like to lose your whole family unexpectedly. My mages can go either way, being sympathetic or just too cynical to care, and my city elves (not that I play them often) also.
I agree that with a Blight on there's no time to give Alistair proper therapy lessons. Still I wish that we'd had a dialogue option somewhere between sympathy and hostilty. Something like "Okay, I know it kind of sucks for you right now but Alistair c'mon I need you to step up to the plate. What would Duncan want you to do?"
Hazegurl wrote...
I always figured it simply meant that Duncan found some other quality in Alistair that he believed would be useful to the Wardens.
I can agree with that. But considering his behavior about sparing Loghain I would say Duncan should have chosen someone else. I hate saying this!! 
Alistair is one of my favorite characters.
Definitely. Again I always hated that there wasn't a dialogue option to hit Alistair with the cluestick about what it means for the Wardens to end the Blights through any means necessary.
But see this is a case of everything having to fall in place according to Alistair's approval and feelings. Alistair was very selfish and childish during that Landsmeet when Loghain is spared. He refuses to think rationally and pretty much abandons his country to perish even if he is made King. I honestly think it's embarrassing to even put him on the throne after that tirade. The battle at Ostagar should have taught him that not everything is going to go according to plan, and if two Grey Wardens are willing to recruit Loghain then he should have seen it as an example of the lengths Grey Wardens are willing to go to end Blights. But nope. It's was all about Alistair's hurt precious feelings over his romantic idea of the Wardens and a dead man. If no one caters to him, then as far as he is concerned Fereldan can burn.
Well I agree that Alistair was selfish and childish. Again, I totally understand where he's coming from and I can appreciate that as a character it's just something that he's not going to be able to rise above. I may not like him all that much in that moment (from a meta standpoint) but I LOVE his character for it because it's absolutely believable.
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