1192 réponses à ce sujet

[Fardreamer]

Ryzaki wrote..

As for Riordan. Senior warden or no he doesn't even bother telling them WHY they should recruit Loghain so he's not being all that bright in this scene either.

He didn't tell them becuase they were in a crown of dozens of witnesses and the secret of the slaying the Archdemon is a Grey Warden secret, just like the Joining.

He did say that there are very compelling reasons why they need more Grey Wardens, but couldn't say more until they were alone.  Which is pretty much all he could say.

[Icy Magebane]

Fardreamer wrote...

Mass Effect 2 had 9 Romance options... Mass Effect 3 had 12 Romance options... nothing say there can't be more than 4 in Dragon Age.

Different writers... I don't think the DA team actually likes writing romance storylines.  Just to be clear, I don't have any quotes where they say that and I might be totally wrong, but that's the general impression I've gotten from them.  Besides that, I think they've talked about having deeper storylines compared to several generic ones?  I dunno... somebody else can probably give you quotes on these points.

[Ryzaki]

Fardreamer wrote...
He didn't tell them becuase they were in a crown of dozens of witnesses and the secret of the slaying the Archdemon is a Grey Warden secret, just like the Joining.

He did say that there are very compelling reasons why they need more Grey Wardens, but couldn't say more until they were alone.  Which is pretty much all he could say.

There's this magical thing called pulling people to the side. There are corners in that room. (Not to mention the whole herp derp a warden being necessary to kill Archy must be a secret is dumb as hell to begin with if Loghain had known that alot of issues wouldn't have happened in the first damn place).

He didn't tell them until they had marched all the way to Redcliffe. Just saying "compelling reasons." isn't helpful. Especially not when emotions are running high.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[Icy Magebane]

Faerunner wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

There are two scenarios that we should probably separate:  Anora as Queen, and Alistair as King, with a non-human LI.  The first scenario showcases Alistair's self-righteousness, while both highlight his selfishness.  I only have direct knowledge of the first, but based on what I've seen, the second seems rather predictable.

Then you don't know what you're talking about regarding the second. Anything you had to say about it immediately lost all credibility.

Oh, give me a break... that's not enough to dismiss my whole argument!  I'm saying that based on what I know, Alistair's behavior towards his lover isn't surprising.

Bah... do whatever you want.

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote..

As for Riordan. Senior warden or no he doesn't even bother telling them WHY they should recruit Loghain so he's not being all that bright in this scene either.

He does say he's a warrior and general of great renown, which is true, so...

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ryzaki wrote..

As for Riordan. Senior warden or no he doesn't even bother telling them WHY they should recruit Loghain so he's not being all that bright in this scene either.

He does say he's a warrior and general of great renown, which is true, so...

You have plenty of warriors at that point and his general skills haven't actually been at their strong point. (Not to mention the Warden already has generals who know their specific armies).

There's nothing Loghain brings to the table that the Warden doesn't already have outside another warden to kill the archedemon (which he/she has no way of knowing is that significant thanks to Riordan being overly tightlipped for no damn reason).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:37 .

[HiroVoid]

Riordan was also under the impression that they already knew about what happened when you killed the archdemon. In general though, it's also possible that he didn't see the big deal with letting Loghain join the wardens since they recruit criminals all the time for the order. I think in a way, he forgot just how green the protagonist and Alistair were.

[Ryzaki]

You think he would've gotten a bit suspicious when Alistair (and potentially the warden) were so resistant to the idea of recruiting him though.

Also...why the HELL can you not recruit anyone OTHER than Loghain? It's not like there's a shortage of blood. They clearly can get the ritual prepared (which begs even more questions how does Riordan (who is clearly not a mage) get the mixture from? It needs to be prepared with magic (and judging from DAO it needs to be fresh).

In Awakening there are clearly warden mage survivors. That isn't the case in origins. (And it was the archedemon blood they had in storage not the entire mixture from what I can recall).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[TeamLexana]

If you don't like Alistair, it's cool, you don't have to explain yourself. Different strokes for different folks. I don't like D2's Anders and even if someone wanted to argue with me till they were blue in the face, it wouldn't change my OPINION on the matter. Personal preferences don't have to be defended so hard. You like what you like.

[TEWR]

You have plenty of warriors at that point and his general skills haven't actually been at their strong point. (Not to mention the Warden already has generals who know their specific armies).

Only Sten and arguably Oghren know how to really command forces. Eamon too. Loghain at least is able to make strategies depending on all of the factors and he serves as a national hero to Ferelden, boosting morale.

There's nothing Loghain brings to the table that the Warden doesn't already have outside another warden to kill the archedemon (which he/she has no way of knowing is that significant thanks to Riordan being overly tightlipped for no damn reason).

Other then the fact that he assumed Duncan had told Alistair and the Warden (and he rightly should've told Alistair).

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

You think he would've gotten a bit suspicious when Alistair (and potentially the warden) were so resistant to the idea of recruiting him though.

Also...why the HELL can you not recruit anyone OTHER than Loghain? It's not like there's a shortage of blood.

For one thing, right there in the middle of the Landsmeet, if Riordan, the Warden, and Alistair suddenly declare that they're going to start randomly selecting candidates for the Joining, those people whose allegiance they needed are liable to not take it very well.  Loghain at that point is not in a position to refuse, but the Wardens are not in a position to suddenly start invoking the Right of Conscription willy-nilly on powerful nobles.

Modifié par Silfren, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:45 .

[Ieldra]

Icy Magebane wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Gaider stated on his tumblr that if there are more LI they'll have different sexualities. According to him the reason why the LI were bisexuals in DA2 was to provide choices to everyone.
If there six LI, they're likely to be two hetero, two homosexuals and two bisexuals.

Oh, the bitter irony if Cassandra was a lesbian...

It won't happen, and that's for the best. I admit thinking of all the exploding heads is amusing, but there are a few things that would make my head explode as well, so I'd be somewhat disinclined to be amused at others' expense should that actually happen.

As for the male LIs: is there any indication we'll have a Tevinter magister as a companion? There will most likely be a second mage besides Vivienne, and while balance calls for a male, it also calls for a non-human. I say f*ck balance I want a human male magister, but unfortunately the dev team will have to take a broader approach...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:45 .

[Ryzaki]

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You think he would've gotten a bit suspicious when Alistair (and potentially the warden) were so resistant to the idea of recruiting him though.

Also...why the HELL can you not recruit anyone OTHER than Loghain? It's not like there's a shortage of blood.

For one thing, right there in the middle of the Landsmeet, if Riordan, the Warden, and Alistair sudden declare that they're going to start randomly selecting candidates for the Joining, those people whose allegiance they needed are liable to not take it very well.  Loghain at that point is not in a position to refuse, but the Wardens are not in a position to suddenly start invoking the Right of Conscription willy-nilly on powerful nobles.

People do want to willingly become grey wardens. It's status. They wouldn't have to force anyone. In an group of at least 3 armies you really think there's not going to be several people who are willing to become wardens? And yes there was a human army in Denerim a simple "Does anyone wish to become a Grey Warden?" would've at least gotten them 3 people.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:47 .

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Only Sten and arguably Oghren know how to really command forces. Eamon too. Loghain at least is able to make strategies depending on all of the factors and he serves as a national hero to Ferelden, boosting morale.

I'm doing the weird thing of assuming the armies you gathered came with their own generals. (Wolf lady for werewolves, Elf dude for elves without cure, Elf chick for elves with cure, Gregoir for templars, Irving for mages, Eamon for his people, whoever Bhelen/Harrowmont appointed for dwarves).

Other then the fact that he assumed Duncan had told Alistair and the Warden (and he rightly should've told Alistair).

Point. Should've realized they didn't know so when they were so resistent to the idea of allowing Loghain in though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:49 .

[snackrat]

Why wouldn't he be suspicious? Alistair's strength is also his weakness - he is emotionally driven. This makes him compassionate, and sympathetic to the underdog, but it also makes him hotheaded and vengeful. Alis didn't just oppose him living - he opposed him being a WARDEN, which was supposed to be an honour, and that turning it into a punishment would be demeaning to all Wardens, including Alis and especially Duncan.

I think even if Alis did know he would still be disinclined to let Loghain join, especially with the expectation Riordan would perform the task instead. (Yeah yeah we the player know that this last-minute addin NPC ain't doin' nuttin' but he doesn't...)

Modifié par Karsciyin, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:49 .

[TEWR]

I'm doing the weird thing of assuming the armies you gathered came with their own generals.

Eh... I wouldn't count Irving as being a general. The Dwarves, definitely, but they're also only sending you half of their forces because politics get in the way (though it's still a lot, judging by the cutscene).

I wouldn't count Zathrian or Lanaya as being generals. Maybe lesser command ranks though.

[Icy Magebane]

Alistair resigning from the Grey Wardens when he doesn't get his way is completely dishonorable. Regardless of who gets added to what, he's willing to turn his back on fighting the Blight, which is the sole purpose of Grey Wardens. It's shameful, really. Even if it means sparing Loghain, he should be able to see past his hatred and perform his sworn duty.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Eh... I wouldn't count Irving as being a general. The Dwarves, definitely, but they're also only sending you half of their forces because politics get in the way (though it's still a lot, judging by the cutscene).

I wouldn't count Zathrian or Lanaya as being generals. Maybe lesser command ranks though.

Mages are clearly trained in the way of stragety and tactics. Why *wouldn't* Irving be a generalish figure for mages? He'd know more about his people's abilities than anyone.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't send leaders to command their armies. Of course they'd defer to the Warden but for the most part I doubt the groups sent a bunch of soldiers without any people able to give strageties and orders.

Zathrian is a keeper (pretty sure they would know how to fight (gorilla style mind) Lanaya same thing.

I mean it's not like Darkspawn need master stragety. It's delay and kill until you can reach archedemon then call that thing. This isn't master tactican stuff. The darkspawn swarm.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:53 .

[snackrat]

You can expect them to know how to lead mages or Dalish-style warriors into battle better than Loghain does, though, especially since the armies in question trust their leader. For what reason would they trust Loghain?

[TEWR]

Loghain at that point is not in a position to refuse, but the Wardens are not in a position to suddenly start invoking the Right of Conscription willy-nilly on powerful nobles.

To be fair, you've got a few people in-game that want to be Wardens. There's Seweryn in Orzammar. On powerful nobles? Probably not. On skilled warriors/thieves/mages? Probably.

[TheButterflyEffect]

Faerunner wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Or if you decide to spare Loghain.

Which I never do.

He only lied because he wanted to protect the PC, so the blame would fall back entirely on him, not them.

Doesn't matter. He still puts his warped sense of duty over his life and relationship with the PC, so he's not so different from Alistair that way. Blond human with a sense of duty who's all roses and love poems when you first get together, but who ultimately chooses his interpretation of duty over a life with you near the end of the game. Doesn't matter whether you agree with his reasons or decisions or not, he still does it.

And Zevran does not betray you to the crows if you're in a relationship...

Maybe not (I don't know, I never got to that point without maximum friendship or romance), but you still have to cultivate approval to get into a relationship in the first place. And Fenris also does not turn against the mages if you're in a relationship. They're not so dissimilar is all I'm saying. Doesn't matter whether you like one but not the other, their traits are not so different.

And yet, in the end, you need to make him shag another woman. That just ruins it completely and utterly. NO THANKS.

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You think he would've gotten a bit suspicious when Alistair (and potentially the warden) were so resistant to the idea of recruiting him though.

Also...why the HELL can you not recruit anyone OTHER than Loghain? It's not like there's a shortage of blood.

For one thing, right there in the middle of the Landsmeet, if Riordan, the Warden, and Alistair sudden declare that they're going to start randomly selecting candidates for the Joining, those people whose allegiance they needed are liable to not take it very well.  Loghain at that point is not in a position to refuse, but the Wardens are not in a position to suddenly start invoking the Right of Conscription willy-nilly on powerful nobles.

People do want to willingly become grey wardens. They wouldn't have to force anyone. In an group of at least 3 armies you really think there's not going to be several people who are willing to become wardens? 

Alistair and the Warden don't know how to make new Wardens.  The information doesn't become available to them until Riordan shows up, and even then it's a while before Riordan has access to the ingredients necessary.  I would agree that if he had the time to make Loghain a Warden it stands to reason that he has time to make Wardens out of other people, but again, I think he only does it because right at that moment, Loghain is not in a position to refuse, so he seizes the opportunity to at least try to make one new Warden.

But otherwise, no, right just then at the Landsmeet, there's no guarantee that you'll have volunteers lining up.  I don't think the nobles would be clamoring to join them, and forcing the issue isn't something the Wardens have time for just then.  But neither are they in a position to go scouting the city for recruits. 

[TheButterflyEffect]

Karsciyin wrote...

Why wouldn't he be suspicious? Alistair's strength is also his weakness - he is emotionally driven. This makes him compassionate, and sympathetic to the underdog, but it also makes him hotheaded and vengeful. Alis didn't just oppose him living - he opposed him being a WARDEN, which was supposed to be an honour, and that turning it into a punishment would be demeaning to all Wardens, including Alis and especially Duncan.

I think even if Alis did know he would still be disinclined to let Loghain join, especially with the expectation Riordan would perform the task instead. (Yeah yeah we the player know that this last-minute addin NPC ain't doin' nuttin' but he doesn't...)

Being a Warden is no honor. It is a life of misery, hardship, and loneliness. And all you have to look forward to is a painful, miserable death.