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[Star fury]

 ME series explored many serious themes, one of them including racism. So, how it was portrayed in your opinion?

One of the main themes was xenophilia, from the whole asari race to romances with different species. The galaxy is pretty open and tolerant, there is a genuine cooperation between races except batarians. 

But there are of course several problems. First and the most serious one - issue of genophage and krogan hate of turians and salarians. We have a brilliant Tuchanka arc, the best part of the game/series by many, which beautifully explored it. Good examples can be Wrex and the dalatrass clashing with each other, Wreav is even worse.  

Second - the Batarian Hegemony, a rogue civilization of ME universe. Batarians hate humans for "expansionism" and blame them for their isolation. There was a major conflict between two civilazations, Skyllian Blitz. Balak and his terrorist plot against a human colony. But it looks pretty one-sided affair with the humanity not caring about batarians.

Third - tensions between Turian Hierarchy and Alliance since the First contact war. Turians are wary of humanity's rapid expansion and humans know that only the Council's interference saved them from a destruction by turians. Saren and Ashley Williams(sigh) get honourable mentions.

I'm not sure if you can call mentioned above as racism, it looks more like nationalism. All nations with common borders have rivalries, mutual distrust and even hate.  

And you can add a discrimination of quarians aka space gypsies. Thanks to justafan.

Last but not least - Cerberus and Terra Firma. Prime examples of human racism and extremism.  

P.S. I really really hope not to discuss Ashley's "racism" again.

Modifié par Star fury, 18 novembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[Cobalt2113]

I was actually thinking of writing a small essay about racism and intolerance in the ME universe. I was going to call it "Javik: A case study"

[Rekthor]

I think the series captured it in a really immersive way. I mean, when you play Starcraft or Warcraft, you kinda get the tensions between the races, but it never actually comes to the forefront of your mind. Granted, those are different game genres, but they're still heavily predicated on their stories and backgrounds.

When you listen to Wrex or one of the arrogant Turians in the game (Turian councillor in ME1 comes to mind), you really get that these people *hate* their enemies. The Krogan especially were really, really good vehicles for that bad emotion. So it certainly conveyed it well.

[Star fury]

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I was actually thinking of writing a small essay about racism and intolerance in the ME universe. I was going to call it "Javik: A case study"

Is it a racism, when you hate everyone equally? 

[justafan]

Don't forget the falsely accused Quarian on the Citadel, and the fact there is apparently a giant market for environmental conditioning to avoid envirosuit prejudice.

Overall, I feel the series did a good job portraying the different feelings of the species towards each other. On the surface, it may seem all Star Trekky gumdrops and rainbows, but you look a little deeper, and you notice some species give, and other have to put up with, an insane amount of crap.

[Cainhurst Crow]

To be honest I say mass effect did a somewhat poor job, relying more on anecdotal examples of the concepts, rather then setting an atmosphere where the attitudes were more pervasive. You see one or two people who express the view, and no one else, so it seems like a very small and isolated problem rather then an actual culture or attitude towards eachother.

[Obadiah]

I'll just repeat something similar to what I wrote in the Ashley thread:

I don't see how its possible to not have a mostly racist galaxy in Mass Effect. You basically have nation parallels with the alien civilizations, except that they are nations of literally different species that are the evolutionary product of different environments. With different biology they, we, all have different customs, reactions, and behavior. Added to that the races are mostly separate in their own colonies except for places like the Omega, Citadel, and Purgatory.

Can't expect racism between the races to not be there in that environment, even if it just in the form of discrimination by mistrust.

[Star fury]

justafan wrote...

Don't forget the falsely accused Quarian on the Citadel, and the fact there is apparently a giant market for environmental conditioning to avoid envirosuit prejudice.

Overall, I feel the series did a good job portraying the different feelings of the species towards each other. On the surface, it may seem all Star Trekky gumdrops and rainbows, but you look a little deeper, and you notice some species give, and other have to put up with, an insane amount of crap.

Ah, yeah. Space gypsies of course! 

Obadiah wrote...

I'll just repeat something similar to what I wrote in the Ashley thread:

I don't see how its possible to not have a mostly racist galaxy in Mass Effect. You basically have nation parallels with the alien civilizations, except that they are nations of literally different species that are the evolutionary product of different environments. With different biology they, we, all have different customs, reactions, and behavior. Added to that the races are mostly separate in their own colonies except for places like the Omega, Citadel, and Purgatory.

Can't expect racism between the races to not be there in that environment, even if it just in the form of discrimination by mistrust. 

I more or less agree with you, but I guess it's mostly nationalism and pragmatism in ME universe. Council races are pretty tolerant until push comes to shove, then all bets are off and everyone thinks about own survival and interests.

Modifié par Star fury, 18 novembre 2013 - 05:21 .

[SwobyJ]

IMO it is an ironic and somewhat uncomfortable irony that none of these species would have gotten along if it wasn't for the subtle-control system of the Citadel. And that without the mass relays, organic evolution/competition would have lead to beings that lord over the rest anyway. It's the Cycles themselves that lead to even this medium form of co-operation between species, and even that is tricky, and eventually requires Shepard to bring everyone together and prove that we can unite in common interest, finally.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It was there but it was kept very under the surface. It was more like discrimination.

Shepard: Stupid Jellyfish
Tali remarked about being called a "suit rat"
Then the asari Jona Sederis called her second in command who was a Salarian a "toady". This was the most overt one I heard in all three games. It gave me pause for some fan fiction stuff. How bad is it really? What do they really call the other races in private conversation? We know the Turians are no saints.

[Star fury]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It was there but it was kept very under the surface. It was more like discrimination.

Shepard: Stupid Jellyfish
Tali remarked about being called a "suit rat"
Then the asari Jona Sederis called her second in command who was a Salarian a "toady". This was the most overt one I heard in all three games. It gave me pause for some fan fiction stuff. How bad is it really? What do they really call the other races in private conversation? We know the Turians are no saints.

I think Sederis call him like that because of his personality, not race. 

Also Wrex likes raw "pyjack" liver.
Humans call turians "birds".
I'm sure there are many more nicknames.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It was there but it was kept very under the surface. It was more like discrimination.

Shepard: Stupid Jellyfish
Tali remarked about being called a "suit rat"
Then the asari Jona Sederis called her second in command who was a Salarian a "toady". This was the most overt one I heard in all three games. It gave me pause for some fan fiction stuff. How bad is it really? What do they really call the other races in private conversation? We know the Turians are no saints.

I think Sederis call him like that because of his personality, not race. 

Also Wrex likes raw "pyjack" liver.
Humans call turians "birds".
I'm sure there are many more nicknames.

Are you sure? Maybe she didn't like Salarians. They used to eat flies.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the series handled it fairly well. There were a few examples that were large-scale like the OP mentioned but most of the tensions were kept fairly subdued and showed up in subtle ways (background conversations, little quips when talking to different species, etc.). Discrimination didn't just occur across species either. For example, Asari pure bloods were viewed negatively by the bulk of Asari, due to Asari biology.

But the biggest example I think was organics' views towards AIs (I think the Organic vs Synthetic theme in the series was not anything like the Catalyst's version, it was instead another form of xenophobia). The council and much of galactic society did not think AIs had a right to exist, with any created synthetic intelligences ordered to immediate destruction; and while tensions existed across different species due to history and biology, the only legally acceptable form of discrimination were laws against AIs.

[trenq]

Tali bleeding in the Citadel and everyone just walking by.

I like my salarian liver raw.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

To be honest I say mass effect did a somewhat poor job, relying more on anecdotal examples of the concepts, rather then setting an atmosphere where the attitudes were more pervasive. You see one or two people who express the view, and no one else, so it seems like a very small and isolated problem rather then an actual culture or attitude towards eachother.

This. It's pretty non-existant. It only really comes up with people being jerks, but not truly racist/xenophobic.

[Obadiah]

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It was there but it was kept very under the surface. It was more like discrimination.

Shepard: Stupid Jellyfish
Tali remarked about being called a "suit rat"
Then the asari Jona Sederis called her second in command who was a Salarian a "toady". This was the most overt one I heard in all three games. It gave me pause for some fan fiction stuff. How bad is it really? What do they really call the other races in private conversation? We know the Turians are no saints.

I think Sederis call him like that because of his personality, not race. 

Also Wrex likes raw "pyjack" liver.
Humans call turians "birds".
I'm sure there are many more nicknames.

- ME1: Executor Palin in ME1, "You humans blah blah blah...."
- ME1: Tali's anti-Geth statements, when throughout the first game you get hints that the Geth are not quite as they appear
- ME1: Citadel AI's anti-Organic stance based on history violence against AI
- ME2: Can't forget Mordin, who you can call out for his perceptions in the final conv of his loyalty mission. Racism based on statistics
- ME3: Dalitrass on Krogan "urges"
- ME2: Jorum Taleed campaigning on an anti-human platform
- ME2: Quarian being harassed by poilce, "You know what Quarians are like..."
- ME2: Preator Gavorn on Omega and the Vorcha. Aside from his attitude, there is a Shadow Broker clip of him just throwing a grenade into a few of them while they aren't doing anything.
- ME2: Korgan head of the Blood Pack blowing off a Vorcha's head to show Grunt how to intimidate people
- ME2: Parassini describing enjoying taking down Asari because they are so ageless and superior.
- ME2: Shepard can motivate the Krogan test subject go back to camp by appealing to his superiority over some "damn Quarian." This is actually kind of funny when Tali is in the group.

There is a lot of off-the-cuff stereotyping going on in ME2, and because of biological differences of the members of cultures, it is difficult to determine if the comments are directed at race or culture... but they're probably both.

Modifié par Obadiah, 18 novembre 2013 - 07:29 .

[IceTrey1987]

A lot of it IS nationalism. It becomes racism when it comes down to a race not liking another race for either their biological or social traits. Krogans vs. Salarians is mostly racism: The Salarians do have a justifiable reason for distrusting the Krogan, but they also refuse to see Krogan as anything but dumb vicious brutes, where Krogan view Salarians as weak. Cerberus and Terra Firma I actually view differently. Cerberus is just a nationalist movement, seeking power for Earth in the galaxy. They have no inherent love for alien species but most of them don't go around telling jokes about aliens all day. Where Terra Firma just doesn't want to associate with alien species because they don't trust them, even after the Turians have become allies. Cerberus also does countless experiments on and massacres humans. They're just power hungry and unscrupulous all around, not really as racist as they're made out to be. Quarians seem to be the victim of the most outright racism in the series, especially in ME2. The thing about most racism in Mass Effect is that a lot of it is caused by past wars between the different species, not just "you're different therefore I think you are inferior".

[RatThing]

Don't forget the anti-human preacher on Omega.

[Offender_Mullet]

Star fury wrote...

 And you can add a discrimination of quarians aka space gypsies. Thanks to justafan.

You could have left "racism" out of the thread title, as there was no need for it. If you want to be technical, "racism" would apply inside a species and the races within said species but not going from one species to another. However, that word is definitely an attention-grabber, Al Sharpton.

Anyway, think of the Quarians as the Palestinians. "It's our land!" Geth: "Noooooo it's not." and they complain and whine about it constantly.

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:27 .

[KaiserShep]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Then the asari Jona Sederis called her second in command who was a Salarian a "toady". This was the most overt one I heard in all three games.

Unless you simply want a double meaning to her comment, Sederis' remark about Sayn being a toady only means that he's obsequious to someone important. Sayn could've been a turian, batarian or human and the comment would be no less applicable.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:26 .

[Star fury]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

Anyway, think of the Quarians as the Palestinians. "It's our land!" Geth: "Noooooo it's not." and they complain and whine about it constantly.

So Geth are ME Jews lulz?! 

[Star fury]

RatThing wrote...

Don't forget the anti-human preacher on Omega.

"You humans are all racist!" immortal remark.

[Offender_Mullet]

Star fury wrote...

Offender_Mullet wrote...

Anyway, think of the Quarians as the Palestinians. "It's our land!" Geth: "Noooooo it's not." and they complain and whine about it constantly.

So Geth are ME Jews lulz?! 

Actually, I'm way off on my analogy. The Palestinians actually have land to sit on andfiremissilesattheirneighbor. The Quarians just roam around. Ugh. It's late. But.....I've heard the Geth are very good at not leaving a waitress a tip.

[Star fury]

IceTrey1987 wrote...

Cerberus and Terra Firma I actually view differently. Cerberus is just a nationalist movement, seeking power for Earth in the galaxy. They have no inherent love for alien species but most of them don't go around telling jokes about aliens all day. Where Terra Firma just doesn't want to associate with alien species because they don't trust them, even after the Turians have become allies. Cerberus also does countless experiments on and massacres humans. They're just power hungry and unscrupulous all around, not really as racist as they're made out to be. Quarians seem to be the victim of the most outright racism in the series, especially in ME2. The thing about most racism in Mass Effect is that a lot of it is caused by past wars between the different species, not just "you're different therefore I think you are inferior".

Cerberus is the all-human organisation, with no aliens at all. You can meet a hint in one sidequest how Cerberus completely disregarded some medicine because it helped only aliens.

[maaaad365]

It's almost scary how ME makes racism look funny. They tackled with a lot of hard subjects in this series, I am amazed how well they balanced their rethoric.

I believe it's Oscar Wilde that said : “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” That's how ME handled racism and xenophobia.