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Racism and xenophobia in ME3


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#251
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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Br3ad wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I think I understand what all of this comes down to.


You guys hate me 'cuz I'm Pink, don't you?

It took you this long to figure it out? Do you even lift, bro? 


Yeah, with all my noodly appendages.

You guys will pay one day. PAY.

#252
Steelcan

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Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
IGN:sick:

It really defies logic.  Good idea in theory, but handled oh sooooo awfully


Gotta lick them PSPs! *facepalms*

Yeah them cheeks on...what her character's name face? Just awful. God awful.


@Steel: That shirt made me LOL.


I mean one reasonably well liked character was already a possibility, but no butterface<_<<_<<_<

#253
Ryzaki

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Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
IGN:sick:

It really defies logic.  Good idea in theory, but handled oh sooooo awfully


Gotta lick them PSPs! *facepalms*

Yeah them cheeks on...what her character's name face? Just awful. God awful.


@Steel: That shirt made me LOL.


I mean one reasonably well liked character was already a possibility, but no butterface<_<<_<<_<


:(

That killing of Wong via Twitter.  <_<

We could've at least got Al'Jani (or however you spell it). Least there would've been some history there.

#254
Br3admax

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wolfhowwl wrote...

As repayment for the Talimancers' years of loyalty, Bioware gave them a photoshopped hammasa and "activate sing-along mode."

HAHAHAHA

But they overcome so much, like science for an example. Or least what Mass Effect calls science. 

#255
Steelcan

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well a lot of people didn't like her, for rather obvious reasons.

But still, I'd prefer her to....it

#256
KaiserShep

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dreamgazer wrote...

Just look at all those bothers I give. 

(My vanguard is close enough to a soldier, really.)


A soldier with super powers = vastly superior. 

#257
eyezonlyii

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Steelcan wrote...

well a lot of people didn't like her, for rather obvious reasons.

But still, I'd prefer her to....it


All the more reason to have her on. Especially since no one would call her biased in her coverage

#258
CynicalShep

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KaiserShep wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Just look at all those bothers I give. 

(My vanguard is close enough to a soldier, really.)


A soldier with super powers = vastly superior. 


Mater race soldier reporting in. All ya'll motherlovers need Jesus

#259
KaiserShep

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Ain't no such thing! All I see are biotic explosions.

#260
Ryzaki

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Steelcan wrote...

well a lot of people didn't like her, for rather obvious reasons.

But still, I'd prefer her to....it


Yep.

Agreed. At least she was relevant. (Also Chobot's VA is god awful. She's worse than the Liaramance in ME1 VA and that's a feat).

#261
CynicalShep

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KaiserShep wrote...

Ain't no such thing! All I see are biotic explosions.


But have you ever seen them in slow motion?

#262
Ryzaki

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God I hate when lag causes me to double post.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:12 .


#263
KaiserShep

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Fully evolved biotic charge has a kind of adrenaline rush effect, so yes :D

#264
Steelcan

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Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

well a lot of people didn't like her, for rather obvious reasons.

But still, I'd prefer her to....it


Yep.

Agreed. At least she was relevant. (Also Chobot's VA is god awful. She's worse than the Liaramance in ME1 VA and that's a feat).

shhhuuuuushhh

i've finally gotten through it without getting the ninjamance

#265
Ryzaki

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Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

well a lot of people didn't like her, for rather obvious reasons.

But still, I'd prefer her to....it


Yep.

Agreed. At least she was relevant. (Also Chobot's VA is god awful. She's worse than the Liaramance in ME1 VA and that's a feat).

shhhuuuuushhh

i've finally gotten through it without getting the ninjamance


XD my bad.

#266
CynicalShep

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KaiserShep wrote...

Fully evolved biotic charge has a kind of adrenaline rush effect, so yes :D


Pfft. It's like comparing self-gratification with the real thing. But vanguards are my second favorite so you only lose one brownie point.

#267
Ryzaki

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and replaying ME1 ugggh. Rachni look so much more creepy. UGH. *shivers*

#268
Star fury

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FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The distinction is blurred somewhat because the Citadel is the only place where multispecies political structures exist. However, I think that there is clearly some racism and prejudice that grows out of what may have started as political or military conflicts. Balak says, "You humans," not "you colonists" or "you Alliance soldiers." Pressly says he doesn't much like "turians in general," as opposed to criticizing the actions or principles of the Turian Hierarchy.

We can argue over whether specific examples of antagonism between the species are racism per se, but even if some of them aren't, they're still potentially dangerous when they get into the realm of designating certain groups as "us" and others as "them."


It's very hard to distinguish racism from nationalism, as somebody already mentioned salarians(at least their dalatrass) look definityely racist, calling krogans "brutes" and "savages". Wrex also has an understandable hate. I don't think you can call batarians racists because even if Balak hates all humans, it's not that different from i.e. Cold War rhetoric. 
It's really hard to find racism except Cerberus and some individuals in ME universe and even in Ceberus case it's implicit. And it is good.

#269
DeinonSlayer

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Star fury wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The distinction is blurred somewhat because the Citadel is the only place where multispecies political structures exist. However, I think that there is clearly some racism and prejudice that grows out of what may have started as political or military conflicts. Balak says, "You humans," not "you colonists" or "you Alliance soldiers." Pressly says he doesn't much like "turians in general," as opposed to criticizing the actions or principles of the Turian Hierarchy.

We can argue over whether specific examples of antagonism between the species are racism per se, but even if some of them aren't, they're still potentially dangerous when they get into the realm of designating certain groups as "us" and others as "them."


It's very hard to distinguish racism from nationalism, as somebody already mentioned salarians(at least their dalatrass) look definityely racist, calling krogans "brutes" and "savages". Wrex also has an understandable hate. I don't think you can call batarians racists because even if Balak hates all humans, it's not that different from i.e. Cold War rhetoric. 
It's really hard to find racism except Cerberus and some individuals in ME universe and even in Ceberus case it's implicit. And it is good.

I would actually argue that Charles Saracino, the Terra Firma representative in ME1, was a nationalist - not a racist - and brought up some valid points. From the quest name itself, we already know we're supposed to hate him, but it would have been interesting to see more of that going ahead. Something to keep in the back of your mind.

I believe "contagonist" is the term.

#270
Star fury

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat. Even their isolationist policies are somewhat justified, they knew that the other species of the galaxy did not accept them and Citadel space had laws to destroy AIs on sight; so, they saw any ship that ventured past the Perseus Veil as an act of war (I don't think you can accidently enter Geth territory). And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist. I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).


Quarians seeking to get their homeworld back are not rational as any living beings would be. It is understandable. 

Quarian writer Chris L'Etoile based them on Jews who wondered millennia without home while having an opportunity to settle somewhere. 

#271
136th

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Star fury wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat. Even their isolationist policies are somewhat justified, they knew that the other species of the galaxy did not accept them and Citadel space had laws to destroy AIs on sight; so, they saw any ship that ventured past the Perseus Veil as an act of war (I don't think you can accidently enter Geth territory). And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist. I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).


Quarians seeking to get their homeworld back are not rational as any living beings would be. It is understandable. 

Quarian writer Chris L'Etoile based them on Jews who wondered millennia without home while having an opportunity to settle somewhere. 


Here goes that debate again.

#272
DeinonSlayer

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136th wrote...

Star fury wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat. Even their isolationist policies are somewhat justified, they knew that the other species of the galaxy did not accept them and Citadel space had laws to destroy AIs on sight; so, they saw any ship that ventured past the Perseus Veil as an act of war (I don't think you can accidently enter Geth territory). And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist. I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).


Quarians seeking to get their homeworld back are not rational as any living beings would be. It is understandable. 

Quarian writer Chris L'Etoile based them on Jews who wondered millennia without home while having an opportunity to settle somewhere. 


Here goes that debate again.

Even I know better than to tie it in to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. :?

#273
ImaginaryMatter

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

136th wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Quarians seeking to get their homeworld back are not rational as any living beings would be. It is understandable. 

Quarian writer Chris L'Etoile based them on Jews who wondered millennia without home while having an opportunity to settle somewhere. 


Here goes that debate again.

Even I know better than to tie it in to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. :?


I may be thick-headed, but even I'm not dense enough to get into that mess.

#274
Ryzaki

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Yeah that's a quick way to get a ban and the thread closed.

#275
Star fury

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136th wrote...

Star fury wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat. Even their isolationist policies are somewhat justified, they knew that the other species of the galaxy did not accept them and Citadel space had laws to destroy AIs on sight; so, they saw any ship that ventured past the Perseus Veil as an act of war (I don't think you can accidently enter Geth territory). And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist. I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).


Quarians seeking to get their homeworld back are not rational as any living beings would be. It is understandable. 

Quarian writer Chris L'Etoile based them on Jews who wondered millennia without home while having an opportunity to settle somewhere. 


Here goes that debate again.


Well, then Bioware writer who made a history for quarians in ME1-2 states them as a source of his inspiration.


"Why did so many Jews carry a torch for Israel for thousands of years? There are hundreds of deserts in the world, there has to be another one that's close enough to the Levant." Those silly Jews Quarians, just get over the loss the Holy Land Homeworld and settle down on Long Island Palaven.

Emotional beings don't always make rational decisions.


The Jewish Diaspora was one of my inspirations when I was writing about the quarians in ME1 and ME2, though it's rarely overt. The ship, system, and planet names I contributed were built with Hebrew phonemes. Listen to how Legion pronounces the "och" of "Rannoch"Image IPB in ME2 - the VO notes expressly asked DC Douglas to pronounce it like a Hebrew phrase. The prayer used to open Rael'Zorah's trial directly paraphrases a Jewish blessing:

"Blessed are the Ancestors who kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season. Keelah se'lai." 
"Blessed are You, Lord, God, King of the Universe, who gave us life, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." 

SF writers take inspiration from real life, film at eleven.

I had no hand in ME3, but there was a very clear parallel in the earlier games. When quarians weren't being ghettoized by other species, they were isolating themselves to maintain their cultural identity. They kept their own counsel, relied on their own strength, and dreamed of a return to their Homeland. Yes, there's also Romani in there with the mobile fleet, but I preferred to emphasize the Jewish aspects - the bits that emphasized the antiquity and strength of their cultural identity, their practical approach to life, and the mystical leanings of their philosophy (the ship captain's blessing, the prayers that open and close the trial).

EDIT: And also - duh - the closeness of family and the importance of community bonds. I tried to get that in from the very first moments of Migrant Fleet in ME2 (I did the first draft, Patrick Weekes did extensive rewrites) - the fleet controller doesn't just say, "identity confirmed." He says, "Welcome home, Tali'Zorah."

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