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[Daemul]

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

Modifié par Daemul, 18 novembre 2013 - 09:27 .

[KaiserShep]

Animosity towards the geth is not exactly ill-founded, so it's understandable that many characters would simply not trust them or even hate them, and strongly disagree if you choose them over the quarians. In-universe, if I witnessed the mayhem they start along with Sovereign, I would not likely lament them being wiped from the face of the galaxy.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 novembre 2013 - 09:58 .

[Star fury]

Daemul wrote...

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

Can we apply a concept of racism to synthetics?

Also Kaidan expressing some emotions is serious business. He's entitled to have animosity, since he fought against them all three games.

[Daemul]

I knew there was animosity towards the Geth, I expected that, but the animosity I saw was on a whole new level. Not even the Krogan are hated that much and they did far more damage to the galaxy. Well, except by the Salarians.

On whether racism applies to synthetics, it seems to in the Mass Effect universe, since Tali's writer in one of the panels lists her racism against the Geth as one of her flaws, as a flaw of the Quarian race actually, comparing it to telling scary stories around a campfire.

Modifié par Daemul, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:23 .

[RatThing]

Daemul wrote...

I knew there was animosity towards the Geth, I expected that, but the animosity I saw was on a whole new level. Not even the Krogan are hated that much and they did far more damage to the galaxy. Well, except by the Salarians.

On whether racism applies to synthetics, it seems to in the Mass Effect universe, since Tali's writer in one of the panels lists her racism against the Geth as one of her flaws, as a flaw of the Quarian race actually, comparing it to telling scary stories around a campfire.

Yeah, I'll be the judge of that myself, there's enough lecturing on this in the game already. Generally in the MEU both views are possible. The Salarian counsilor calls Legion a trophy in ME2, so I'd say in general the other species or at least the political elite do not see the Geth as alive. Even if it were different I reserve myself the right to judge this matter based on my views.

[pelojian]

Cerberus is the all-human organisation, with no aliens at all. You can meet a hint in one sidequest how Cerberus completely disregarded some medicine because it helped only aliens.

hmm

"medigiel advancements only for hanar, only cerberus would call that a failure"

[Kataphrut94]

Daemul wrote...

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

I was more annoyed with Garrus making those sort of comments. He even outright says (if they were destroyed) "the geth were a menace and I'm glad they're gone". Dude met Legion in ME2, he should have known better.

[Daemul]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Daemul wrote...

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

I was more annoyed with Garrus making those sort of comments. He even outright says (if they were destroyed) "the geth were a menace and I'm glad they're gone". Dude met Legion in ME2, he should have known better.

Everyone forgot Legion and everything we learnt from him about the Geth it seems, I have no idea what was going on there. I don't mind my squadmates opinions differing from my own, in fact I welcome it, but man the aftermath of the Rannoch Arc if you destroyed/sided with the Geth was really uncomfotable. I had to put down the controller for the rest of the day after that. 

[Star fury]

Daemul wrote...

I knew there was animosity towards the Geth, I expected that, but the animosity I saw was on a whole new level. Not even the Krogan are hated that much and they did far more damage to the galaxy. Well, except by the Salarians.

On whether racism applies to synthetics, it seems to in the Mass Effect universe, since Tali's writer in one of the panels lists her racism against the Geth as one of her flaws, as a flaw of the Quarian race actually, comparing it to telling scary stories around a campfire.

If you don't stop the Geth, they actually kill all Quarians thus commiting a genocide. That pretty big deal imo. Geth also attacked the Citadel an were main antagonists in ME1. It was retconned as only "heretic" Geth supported Sovereign, but it still leaves bad taste. I doubt that common people in the galaxy know about "heretics" and "good" Geth.     

[justafan]

RatThing wrote...

Daemul wrote...

I knew there was animosity towards the Geth, I expected that, but the animosity I saw was on a whole new level. Not even the Krogan are hated that much and they did far more damage to the galaxy. Well, except by the Salarians.

On whether racism applies to synthetics, it seems to in the Mass Effect universe, since Tali's writer in one of the panels lists her racism against the Geth as one of her flaws, as a flaw of the Quarian race actually, comparing it to telling scary stories around a campfire.

Yeah, I'll be the judge of that myself, there's enough lecturing on this in the game already. Generally in the MEU both views are possible. The Salarian counsilor calls Legion a trophy in ME2, so I'd say in general the other species or at least the political elite do not see the Geth as alive. Even if it were different I reserve myself the right to judge this matter based on my views.

It's kinda of a "which is worse" scenario.  Most Quarians apparently view the Geth as alive, they just want them all destroyed for some not totally unjustifiable reasons, but in the process have developed a very biased view towards the species.  Others in the galaxy however don't seem to view the Geth as even alive in the first place, so all bets and rights are off.  The Geth at least have chosen to live in self-sustaining isolation though, the Quarians have no such option.

Modifié par justafan, 18 novembre 2013 - 05:10 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Daemul wrote...

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

Well, gee. When you murder a couple billion people and kill anyone who so much as approaches you for three hundred years on end, rebuff all attempts at communication and do nothing when some of your own run off on a campaign to purge the galaxy of organic life, people are gonna get a bit snippy. I'm surprised there aren't more people on the Normandy asking what Shepard is thinking even letting Legion on the ship.

The galaxy's perception of the Geth is entirely justified. Legion, who only came into existence in the last two years, is the catalyst for change. Without him, the Geth are by far the most xenophobic race in the MEU.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 novembre 2013 - 07:01 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

Star fury wrote...
But there are of course several problems. First and the most serious one - issue of genophage and krogan hate of turians and salarians. We have a brilliant Tuchanka arc, the best part of the game/series by many, which beautifully explored it. Good examples can be Wrex and the dalatrass clashing with each other, Wreav is even worse.  

Second - the Batarian Hegemony, a rogue civilization of ME universe. Batarians hate humans for "expansionism" and blame them for their isolation. There was a major conflict between two civilazations, Skyllian Blitz. Balak and his terrorist plot against a human colony. But it looks pretty one-sided affair with the humanity not caring about batarians.

Third - tensions between Turian Hierarchy and Alliance since the First contact war. Turians are wary of humanity's rapid expansion and humans know that only the Council's interference saved them from a destruction by turians. Saren and Ashley Williams(sigh) get honourable mentions.

I'm not sure if you can call mentioned above as racism, it looks more like nationalism. All nations with common borders have rivalries, mutual distrust and even hate.  

The distinction is blurred somewhat because the Citadel is the only place where multispecies political structures exist. However, I think that there is clearly some racism and prejudice that grows out of what may have started as political or military conflicts. Balak says, "You humans," not "you colonists" or "you Alliance soldiers." Pressly says he doesn't much like "turians in general," as opposed to criticizing the actions or principles of the Turian Hierarchy.

We can argue over whether specific examples of antagonism between the species are racism per se, but even if some of them aren't, they're still potentially dangerous when they get into the realm of designating certain groups as "us" and others as "them."

[Sir DeLoria]

Daemul wrote...

I knew there was animosity towards the Geth, I expected that, but the animosity I saw was on a whole new level. Not even the Krogan are hated that much and they did far more damage to the galaxy. Well, except by the Salarians.

On whether racism applies to synthetics, it seems to in the Mass Effect universe, since Tali's writer in one of the panels lists her racism against the Geth as one of her flaws, as a flaw of the Quarian race actually, comparing it to telling scary stories around a campfire.

Every character in the ME universe is "racist" against the Geth and you know why? Because the Geth deserve it and least of all brough it upon themselves. They committed genocide and organized mass murder, they destroyed anyone who got too close to their territory and let the heretics loose on the galaxy without a second thought(Legion says, that the Geth understood and sympathized with the heretics). Mind you, that only Shep and a very, very select few actually know the difference between regular Geth and Heretics. The term 'racism' might not even be applicable because it's debatable wether or not Geth should even be considered living beings. 

The Quarians were driven from their homeworld and many got butchered by the Geth, they are slowly dying and forced to a difficult nomadic lifestyle. They have every bleeding right to hate the Geth. Regardless Tali and the Quarians as a whole are no more resentful of the Geth than any other individual or species.

[Sir DeLoria]

Daemul wrote...

Everyone forgot Legion and everything we learnt from him about the Geth it seems, I have no idea what was going on there. I don't mind my squadmates opinions differing from my own, in fact I welcome it, but man the aftermath of the Rannoch Arc if you destroyed/sided with the Geth was really uncomfotable. I had to put down the controller for the rest of the day after that. 

In the event of Shep siding with the Geth, it's a surprise the bitter dialogue is the only response. In that scenario Shep just was responsible for the complete annihilation and near extermination of his own allies. How would the crew respond if Shep decided to blow up Thessia or Palaven?

Not just that, but they loose one of their best friends in that case. Imo Garrus, Ash or Kaidan should have thrown a punch at Shep. 

[Soldier096]

Daemul wrote...

Actually, the most discriminated race is the Geth, the amount of hatred NPC's and squadmates have towards them is shocking, especially after the Rannoch arc if you haven't made peace but instead chosen a side. I felt like packing my bags and leaving the Normandy to go into isolation, because once you have even Kaidan "Boring" Alenko spewing vitriol, it's time to abandon ship.

Well the Geth haven't done anything to change their views. They have been fighting Geth for three years. Legion was the only unit that was not hostile towards them but Legion still lied to them on several occasions. Do you really expect them to take pity on the Geth after they willingly joined the reapers?

Modifié par Soldier096, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:47 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Necanor wrote...

Every character in the ME universe is "racist" against the Geth and you know why? Because the Geth deserve it and least of all brough it upon themselves. They committed genocide and organized mass murder, they destroyed anyone who got too close to their territory and let the heretics loose on the galaxy without a second thought(Legion says, that the Geth understood and sympathized with the heretics). Mind you, that only Shep and a very, very select few actually know the difference between regular Geth and Heretics. The term 'racism' might not even be applicable because it's debatable wether or not Geth should even be considered living beings. 

The Quarians were driven from their homeworld and many got butchered by the Geth, they are slowly dying and forced to a difficult nomadic lifestyle. They have every bleeding right to hate the Geth. Regardless Tali and the Quarians as a whole are no more resentful of the Geth than any other individual or species.

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat. Even their isolationist policies are somewhat justified, they knew that the other species of the galaxy did not accept them and Citadel space had laws to destroy AIs on sight; so, they saw any ship that ventured past the Perseus Veil as an act of war (I don't think you can accidently enter Geth territory). And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist. I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).

[trenq]

I don't think they would bother with the council even if it was allowed, or any organic really.
Quarians only wanted to end a war before it begins, they feared the Geth would start to become self-aware and know that they were created as slaves and rebel.

[DeinonSlayer]

@ImaginaryMatter
This argument sickens and disgusts me. After systematically exterminating 99% of the Quarian race, the Geth should somehow be lauded because they couldn't make up their minds on whether to kill the fleeing survivors fast enough to actually do so?

Answer me this. At what point does "he hit me first" cease to be a valid justification for one's actions? At what point are the Geth accountable for their own actions in your eyes?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 novembre 2013 - 09:27 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Necanor wrote...

Daemul wrote...

Everyone forgot Legion and everything we learnt from him about the Geth it seems, I have no idea what was going on there. I don't mind my squadmates opinions differing from my own, in fact I welcome it, but man the aftermath of the Rannoch Arc if you destroyed/sided with the Geth was really uncomfotable. I had to put down the controller for the rest of the day after that. 

In the event of Shep siding with the Geth, it's a surprise the bitter dialogue is the only response. In that scenario Shep just was responsible for the complete annihilation and near extermination of his own allies. How would the crew respond if Shep decided to blow up Thessia or Palaven?

Not just that, but they loose one of their best friends in that case. Imo Garrus, Ash or Kaidan should have thrown a punch at Shep. 

This I agree with. I don't care if it is Commander Shepard. Actually a nice b*tch slap across the face would have been more appropriate. 

I really don't care if the Quarian Live ships were armed. The Geth KNEW which ships were the live ships. They had sensors. If they were still interested in peace they could have surgically taken out the heavy fleet. The live fleet would have surrendered. Instead they slaughtered all of them. It was either/or.

In a non-peace situation I always side with the Quarians. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm debating whether to stay neutral here or to jump in. What to do, what to do.

[Jorji Costava]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm debating whether to stay neutral here or to jump in. What to do, what to do.

There's only one thing I have to say in response to that.

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm debating whether to stay neutral here or to jump in. What to do, what to do.

It's been a good few months, have at it. 

[Dextro Milk]

I will present my argument.

Geth suck and deserve to die.

There, I'm all done. Peace out.

[Obadiah]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@ImaginaryMatter
This argument sickens and disgusts me. After systematically exterminating 99% of the Quarian race, the Geth should somehow be lauded because they couldn't make up their minds on whether to kill the fleeing survivors fast enough to actually do so?

Answer me this. At what point does "he hit me first" cease to be a valid justification for one's actions? At what point are the Geth accountable for their own actions in your eyes?

Happens all the time. One guy hits first, and even though he's losing the fight, won't give up until he's beaten unconscious.

[Soldier096]

 @Imaginary Matter

The Geth's actions during the Mourning War were justified, they fought to prevent their own extinction (a genocide launched by the Quarians) and then spared their creators when they were no longer a threat.

 

The Geth didn't spare the Quarians intentionally. According to Legion the Geth couldn't make a decision due to a lack of information. If you actually listened to Legion instead of fantasizing about how the Geth are the incarnation of innocence you would know that. 

And the main group of Geth understood and sympathized with the Heretics but they strongly disagreed with them and went so far as to label them heretics.

Letting a  killer run around freely is not something that should not be lauded. 

The Geth are easy to sympathize with, they are a race who live in a galaxy that hates them for winning a war for their right to exist.

And afterwards they let their reaper worshipping counterpart committ genocide against humanity and launch an attack on the center of government.

I like the Quarians but they are in the wrong, they launched a genocide and lost. Three-hundred years later their only thoughts are to take back a world from the 'usurpers' instead of trying to find a new home planet (I think they could have adapted to a new world if they dropped their pride, it's probably easier than living aboard ships).

The Quarians did try to colonize other worlds but the council usually gave them to another race. 

Modifié par Soldier096, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:54 .