304 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Obadiah wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@ImaginaryMatter
This argument sickens and disgusts me. After systematically exterminating 99% of the Quarian race, the Geth should somehow be lauded because they couldn't make up their minds on whether to kill the fleeing survivors fast enough to actually do so?

Answer me this. At what point does "he hit me first" cease to be a valid justification for one's actions? At what point are the Geth accountable for their own actions in your eyes?

Happens all the time. One guy hits first, and even though he's losing the fight, won't give up until he's beaten unconscious.

Not the same thing, not even close. In ME2, I'll kill a merc who tries to kill me. I don't then make it my business to hunt down his wife, daughter and grandfather and kill them too.

Or to put it another way, you're in a building full of people with a gun, you're attacked by another person in the building with a gun and kill him. Justifiable. If you then kill everyone else in the building who can't get away from you fast enough, it ceases to be self-defense.

[Jorji Costava]

Dextro Milk wrote...

I will present my argument.

Geth suck and deserve to die.

There, I'm all done. Peace out.

I will present my counter-argument:

Nuh-uh!

QED

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

I will present my argument.

Geth suck and deserve to die.

There, I'm all done. Peace out.

Thanks for the starting point: 

Allow me to retort:

The Quarians created the Geth. The Quarians panicked at the idea of the Geth gaining intelligence and began a pre-emptive forced shutdown of all the Geth. The Geth did nothing to provoke such a reaction. Why do they suck and deserve to die? Because you like Tali?

[Steelcan]

I want to jump in, but I also want to go grab an early dinner...

[Br3admax]

Steelcan wrote...

I want to jump in, but I also want to go grab an early dinner...

No food around here is worth going early for. Scared, Steel? 

[Steelcan]

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I want to jump in, but I also want to go grab an early dinner...

No food around here is worth going early for. Scared, Steel? 

pfft

I'm going to Moe's

[dreamgazer]

I'm debating whether to eat popcorn or pumpkin seeds while observing iteration #972 of this conversation.

[Dextro Milk]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The Quarians created the Geth. The Quarians panicked at the idea of the Geth gaining intelligence and began a pre-emptive forced shutdown of all the Geth. The Geth did nothing to provoke such a reaction. Why do they suck and deserve to die? Because you like Tali?

Lol, what does Tali have to do with this? Baiting fail.

The geth suck and deserve to die because they killed billions of innocent people. There is a difference between the quarian people and the quarian gevernment.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Not the same thing, not even close. In ME2, I'll kill a merc who tries to kill me. I don't then make it my business to hunt down his wife, daughter and grandfather and kill them too.

Or to put it another way, you're in a building full of people with a gun, you're attacked by another person in the building with a gun and kill him. Justifiable. If you then kill everyone else in the building who can't get away from you fast enough, it ceases to be self-defense.

Remember how Legion stated that the Geth were collectively in their mental and psychological-equivalent infancy? They were more akin to a wild animal that had been actively attacked and chased and is striking back in self-defence. The result was the Geth equivalent of the 'fight or flight/freeze' reaction. The Geth could not flee as the Quarians were assaulting them. As more Geth were destroyed the reduced mental capacity caused the Geth to act more on instinct and lash back in panicked fury to protect themselves.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:15 .

[Obadiah]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@ImaginaryMatter
This argument sickens and disgusts me. After systematically exterminating 99% of the Quarian race, the Geth should somehow be lauded because they couldn't make up their minds on whether to kill the fleeing survivors fast enough to actually do so?

Answer me this. At what point does "he hit me first" cease to be a valid justification for one's actions? At what point are the Geth accountable for their own actions in your eyes?

Happens all the time. One guy hits first, and even though he's losing the fight, won't give up until he's beaten unconscious.

Not the same thing, not even close. In ME2, I'll kill a merc who tries to kill me. I don't then make it my business to hunt down his wife, daughter and grandfather and kill them too.

Or to put it another way, you're in a building full of people with a gun, you're attacked by another person in the building with a gun and kill him. Justifiable. If you then kill everyone else in the building who can't get away from you fast enough, it ceases to be self-defense.

I don't know why that's your perception of the Morning War. In ME3 the Quarians seem perfect OK with arming their civilians, man, woman and child, and sending them to fight. They got killed because they lost.

Modifié par Obadiah, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Br3admax]

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

[nos_astra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Why do they suck and deserve to die?

They don't deserve to die any less than the quarians.

What annoys me about the geth is how they don't ever seem to be held responsible for their actions. It's always someone else's fault because they had no choice. Pffffft. There's always a choice.

[RatThing]

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

You can kill both (or better kill the Quarians and destroy the machines) by choosing the Geth on Rannoch and pick destroy. Rannoch will be deserted then. 

[Br3admax]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Not the same thing, not even close. In ME2, I'll kill a merc who tries to kill me. I don't then make it my business to hunt down his wife, daughter and grandfather and kill them too.

Or to put it another way, you're in a building full of people with a gun, you're attacked by another person in the building with a gun and kill him. Justifiable. If you then kill everyone else in the building who can't get away from you fast enough, it ceases to be self-defense.

Remember how Legion stated that the Geth were collectively in their mental and psychological-equivalent infancy? They were more akin to a wild animal that had been actively attacked and chased and is striking back in self-defence. The result was the Geth equivalent of the 'fight or flight/freeze' reaction. The Geth could not flee as the Quarians were assaulting them. As more Geth were destroyed the reduced mental capacity caused the Geth to act more on instinct and lash back in panicked fury to protect themselves.

It's been three hundred years and they are still doing the same thing. And they haven't become less intelligent sense then. I will admit that the quarians deserved all that came to them, bu I'm not going to pretend that the geth are somehow not to blame for their actions either. Besides, destroying platforms does not even kill the geth that use them, and the heretics that left didn't make them any less intelligent. 

[nos_astra]

Obadiah wrote...
I don't know why that's your perception of the Morning War. In ME3 the Quarians seem perfect OK with arming their civilians, man, woman and child, and sending them to fight. They got killed because they lost.

Beyond being of the same species, what do the Morning War quarians have to do with the ME3 quarians?

Modifié par klarabella, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:18 .

[Br3admax]

RatThing wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

You can kill both (or better kill the Quarians and destroy the machines) by choosing the Geth on Rannoch and pick destroy. Rannoch will be deserted then. 

Not the same. 

[Jorji Costava]

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

I guess the writer's assumed that no Shepards would be dumb enough to want to shoot themselves in the foot that badly; to go through all that trouble only to end up with no new fighting forces to bring to bear against the Reapers would be a bit of a waste. Although perhaps you mean that there should have been an option to get both killed by virtue of Shepard's sheer incompetence (say, if you made enough dumb decisions previously, etc.).

[Seboist]

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

I wish there was an option to gain control of the Geth for humanity and use them to wipe out the Quarians.

[Br3admax]

Seboist wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

I wish there was an option to gain control of the Geth for humanity and use them to wipe out the Quarians.

I see no problem with this. ..... >_> 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The Quarians created the Geth. The Quarians panicked at the idea of the Geth gaining intelligence and began a pre-emptive forced shutdown of all the Geth. The Geth did nothing to provoke such a reaction. Why do they suck and deserve to die? Because you like Tali?

Lol, what does Tali have to do with this? Baiting fail.

Well, what other justification do you have for claiming the Geth suck? You're not providing a support for your argument, and you've argued in the past that you love the Quarians unconditionally, primarily based on your reaction to Tali.

So why do the Geth suck? Why do they deserve to die?

The geth suck and deserve to die because they killed billions of innocent people.

Did you ever stop and consider what the circumstances behind their actions were? The psychology of the Geth, the technological maturity of the Geth, etc. 

As I recall, the Geth were being hunted to extinction themselves. Are you proposing that the Geth simply lie back and accept death?

There is a difference between the quarian people and the quarian gevernment.

Not really. Not to the Geth who are in an a collectively feral state brought upon by severely decreased mental capability to reason due to the Quarians attacking the Geth out of fear of Synthetics that is more or less irrational. 

[Ravensword]

osbornep wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Why wasn't there a kill both option? I know that we could save both, but why couldn't we kill boh?

I guess the writer's assumed that no Shepards would be dumb enough to want to shoot themselves in the foot that badly; to go through all that trouble only to end up with no new fighting forces to bring to bear against the Reapers would be a bit of a waste. Although perhaps you mean that there should have been an option to get both killed by virtue of Shepard's sheer incompetence (say, if you made enough dumb decisions previously, etc.).

There's a remedy for that: just promote a bunch of MP characters. Boom. Problem solved.

[Obadiah]

klarabella wrote...

Obadiah wrote...
I don't know why that's your perception of the Morning War. In ME3 the Quarians seem perfect OK with arming their civilians, man, woman and child, and sending them to fight. They got killed because they lost.

Beyond being of the same species, what do the Morning War quarians have to do with the ME3 quarians?

Merely pointing out that the interpretation put forward of how the Morning War was fought is based on assumption of how the Quarians behaved.

[Ryzaki]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm debating whether to stay neutral here or to jump in. What to do, what to do.

Heh. I'm so tired of geth quarian debates at this point.

Thankfully the game allows me to laugh as those idiot quarians kill themselves with their warmongering and I can still get my best destroy ending. That's enough for me!

All those fools had to do was wait til after the war was over and they'd had their planet. But nooooo ah well too bad so sad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:26 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Obadiah wrote...

I don't know why that's your perception of the Morning War. In ME3 the Quarians seem perfect OK with arming their civilians, man, woman and child, and sending them to fight. They got killed because they lost.

Hardly. In the modern war, the vast, vast majority of the Quarian population is huddled in the cargo holds of the ships they live in because they don't have anywhere else to go. The same conditions didn't apply in the Morning War. Besides, Revelation flatly describes what the Geth did to the Quarians as a "genocide" which they had "neither the numbers nor the ability" to stand against.

A lot of geth apologists seem to want to put a rifle in the hands of every Quarian during the Morning War, from infants to geriatrics, solely to justify the act of killing them. The truth is closer to what Massively says, but not quite - as evidenced by the VI's dialogue, the Geth simply didn't give a damn who they were killing.

[RatThing]

The cousil woud have stopped them after the war. This was probably their only chance. Nah, the ME3 Quarians did generally the right thing and I was happy to give them a hand. If it was humanity, I'd expected nothing less than do anything to reklaim our homeworld even regardless whether Geth are alive or who 's to blame.

Modifié par RatThing, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:31 .