304 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Why is the animal to blame for the actions of those that provoke it? Why is the animal being punished for being in panicked rage? Why is the animal to blame for being unable to reason, especially when it was the provocateurs who destroyed that ability?
Is it justified that the Quarians committed the same against a race that was previously a sapient, intelligent race?

The perpetrators of the provocation were long dead and yet the animal didn't stop killing and killing and killing. the Quarians had every right to put them down.

What. 300 years of hiding behind the Veil is killing and killing and killing?

Geth (non heretic geth) didn't attack the Quarians until they started something. (At the dumbest of times I might add).

We're debating about a completely different event and time. Stay out of this, if you have nothing relevant to say please.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...
Game mechanics aside, do you not think that everyone else is doing this?

And clearly that means there's still resources available.

That really doesn't change the point. "It's dangerous up there, it's dangerous down here. Let's stay up here so we can die quickly. Let's not even give ourselves a chance." That the reasoning that you're telling me is logical? 

It changes the point when your deaths are less assured in space than on the ground and to even get on the ground you waste even more of your already few resources on a fight when you've already been told your so called enemies are willing to talk to you about a compromise.

That is my problem with the Quarians herp derp let's start a war with the Geth for our HOMEWORLD that we'll be completely unable to protect assuming we do win and will waste resources that we could be using against the Reapers trying to take. 

If they had tried diplomacy and that had failed then I'd feel somewhat empathetic. As it is they started a fight the second their balls dropped with Xen's weapon, got ****slapped by the Reapers giving the Geth a powerup then go crying to Shepard. They can kick rocks.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
Why is the animal to blame for the actions of those that provoke it? Why is the animal being punished for being in panicked rage? Why is the animal to blame for being unable to reason, especially when it was the provocateurs who destroyed that ability?
Is it justified that the Quarians committed the same against a race that was previously a sapient, intelligent race?

The perpetrators of the provocation were long dead and yet the animal didn't stop killing and killing and killing. the Quarians had every right to put them down.

What. 300 years of hiding behind the Veil is killing and killing and killing?

Geth (non heretic geth) didn't attack the Quarians until they started something. (At the dumbest of times I might add).

We're debating about a completely different event and time. Stay out of this, if you have nothing relevant to say please.

If you're talking about the Morning War what on earth makes you think the perpetrators of that were long dead?

And if you want someone to stay out of it take it to PM. If you're posting on a public forum I'll respond if I want to.

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes I laugh at the death of 17 million pixels that died due to stupidity and war mongering.

OMG how dare I mock pixels.

OMG OMG OMG.

Yeah I'd hike my ass to Canada. Not my problem.

Oh aren't you adorable.

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
Game mechanics aside, do you not think that everyone else is doing this?

And clearly that means there's still resources available.

Do you really believe that it's enough to power a fleet? Really? It's hardly enough to even power the SR-2

hat really doesn't change the point. "It's dangerous up there, it's dangerous down here. Let's stay up here so we can die quickly. Let's not even give ourselves a chance." That the reasoning that you're telling me is logical? 

It changes the point when your deaths are less assured in space than on the ground and to even get on the ground you waste even more of your already few resources on a fight when you've already been told your so called enemies are willing to talk to you about a compromise.

That is my problem with the Quarians herp derp let's start a war for the Geth for our HOMEWORLD that we'll be completely unable to protect assuming we do win.

Again, it's more favorable to being sitting ducks. I do not agree with the decision I believe that they should have helped build the Crucible early on, but saying that they should just fly around until the off chance that the Crucible helps them, we not even knowing that Destroy or any choice is what would happen, is nonsensical within itself. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes I laugh at the death of 17 million pixels that died due to stupidity and war mongering.

OMG how dare I mock pixels.

OMG OMG OMG.

Yeah I'd hike my ass to Canada. Not my problem.

Oh aren't you adorable.

Nah I just like laughing at people acting like pixels are a representive of an actual person's personality.

[nos_astra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I didn't apply any human concepts to Geth in this post. I simply used our words to best understand the psychology of the Geth at the time.

You equated the geth to cornered animals, too. I think you do. Using imprecise or incorrect words introduces human  concepts into the discussion.

The geth's reaction seems one of high efficency and little understanding for the consequences to me, not an emergency program for quick fight or flight reactions. Which is btw. inconsistent with their dabbling in philosophical questions. So they understand the concept of a "soul" but not the concept of individuals?

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...
We're debating about a completely different event and time. Stay out of this, if you have nothing relevant to say please.

If you're talking about the Morning War what on earth makes you think the perpetrators of that were long dead?

And if you want someone to stay out of it take it to PM. If you're posting on a public forum I'll respond if I want to.

Because the perpetrators were the Quarian military and government. Even after the Quarians were obviously defeated, the Geth just kept on butchering on those organics(not just Quarians).

If you want to write irrelevant nonsense sure, go ahead if it pleases you:D

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...
Do you really believe that it's enough to power a fleet? Really? It's hardly enough to even power the SR-2

That's why they'd get more than one place. (As for the SR2 one could argue it uses more fuel than necessary due to being a warship).

Again, it's more favorable to being sitting ducks. I do not agree with the decision I believe that they should have helped build the Crucible early on, but saying that they should just fly around until the off chance that the Crucible helps them, we not even knowing that Destroy or any choice is what would happen, is nonsensical within itself. 

They are sitting ducks on the planet. On the fleet they can retreat if necessary. If they're on Rannoch there's nowhere else for them to go and they lack the infactructure to do a gorilla war the way every other developed homeworld can. (And they also lack the numbers, the military and resources).

And no they shouldn't just fly around they shouldn't act like ****ing idiots starting a fight with one person when they have someone far stronger waiting in the wings. If they had tried to reach a diplomatic solution with the Geth I would be somewhat understanding (plus in that way there's more than just thier rinky dink fleet guarding the planet). As it is they tried to fight a unnecssary war with another one waiting in the wings and it blew up in their face. That was what was nonsenscial. They started a war over a hunk of rock that they're completely incapable of defending against the Reapers in any meaningful way and weakened themselves doing it fighting the Geth instead of trying to reach a diplomatic solution.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:10 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Yes I laugh at the death of 17 million pixels that died due to stupidity and war mongering. 
OMG how dare I mock pixels. 

OMG OMG OMG.
Yeah I'd hike my ass to Canada. Not my problem.

Oh aren't you adorable.

Nah I just like laughing at people acting like pixels are a representive of an actual person's personality. 

Who said I do? Who said anyone did? I'm just debating ethics.

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...
We're debating about a completely different event and time. Stay out of this, if you have nothing relevant to say please.

If you're talking about the Morning War what on earth makes you think the perpetrators of that were long dead?

And if you want someone to stay out of it take it to PM. If you're posting on a public forum I'll respond if I want to.

Because the perpetrators were the Quarian military and government. Even after the Quarians were obviously defeated, the Geth just kept on butchering on those organics(not just Quarians).

If you want to write irrelevant nonsense sure, go ahead if it pleases you:D

And what you think the Geth took out the military and government in one swell swoop and the rest of the Quarians went "PLEASE DON'T KILL US EVIL GETH!" and the Geth killed everyone else anyway? 

What proof is there of that?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:08 .

[sr2josh]

Star fury wrote...

Cobalt2113 wrote...

I was actually thinking of writing a small essay about racism and intolerance in the ME universe. I was going to call it "Javik: A case study"

Is it a racism, when you hate everyone equally? 

yes  

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...
Who said I do? Who said anyone did? I'm just debating ethics.

Debating Ethics by using my decisions in a video game.

Not to mention said decision is pretty much watching a group kill themselves by continuing to poke the tiger til it mauls them all while I watch with snacks.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:11 .

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
Do you really believe that it's enough to power a fleet? Really? It's hardly enough to even power the SR-2

That's why they'd get more than one place. (As for the SR2 one could argue it uses more fuel than necessary due to being a warship).

Yeah, that's not possible. The quarians are going to scavenge around the galaxy, with Reapers and others doing the same. Somehow that just doesn't make any sense to me. 

Again, it's more favorable to being sitting ducks. I do not agree with the decision I believe that they should have helped build the Crucible early on, but saying that they should just fly around until the off chance that the Crucible helps them, we not even knowing that Destroy or any choice is what would happen, is nonsensical within itself. 

They are sitting ducks on the planet. On the fleet they can retreat if necessary. If they're on Rannoch there's nowhere else for them to go and they lack the infactructure to do a gorilla war the way every other developed homeworld can.

And no they shouldn't just fly around they shouldn't act like ****ing idiots starting a fight with one person when they have someone far stronger waiting in the wings. If they had tried to reach a diplomatic solution with the Geth I would be somewhat understanding (plus in that way there's more than jsut thier rinky dink fleet guarding the planet). As it is they tried to fight a unnecssary war with another one waiting in the wings and it blew up in their face. That was what was nonsenscial.

They weren't going to reach a diplomatic solution with the geth. The geth haven't made a diplomatic solution with anyone in over 300 years. In fact, the geth were trying to make themselves into a permanent, one-minded consciousness of a ball. They weren't going to help anybody. The one and only reason they agreed to help was because of Shepard's Space Jeebusness, nothing more. They never planned on helping the quarians, just as the quarians never planned on helping them. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...
First off, my first post in this thread was more along the lines of a joke, because this topic has been discussed to death and everyone already knows why I dislike the geth. Second, this has nothing to do with Tali whatsoever.

Then why do you like the Geth? Can you provide me with a reason with logical justification?

I already told you why I thought so.

No you didn't. Nor did you provide a justifiable reason for feeling the way you do.

Yes I have. And that still doesn't excuse killing billions of people. If some mentally ill person started gunning people down in a public place because someone tried to hurt him, does that give him a free pass to kill everyone in the room simply because he is not able to reason as well as the rest of us?

This isn't a mentally ill person gunning down a mall full of people. This is a cornered animal that has been externally provoked by an attack that has taken away its ability to effectively reason beyond understanding survival. 

And as to your point, it doesn't give him a free pass to go on a rampage. But it adds new context and information to the situation and cause of why this person did what he did. What was he suffering from? Was he getting help? Why did it come to a point where this happened? This is much more than a case of right or wrong. 

There was a point when it stopped being "self-defense".

Said point is hard to understand when your ability to reason really is no greater than an angry, frightened animal. 

The Geth are not making an intellectual decision to kill the Quarians. It's a spur of the moment, kill-or-be-killed situation. 

Yes there is a difference to the quarian people and the quarian government/military. A difference the geth conveniently seem to not understand.

I've already explained why this is the case.

The geth knew full well who they were killing

Perhaps, but in their severely hampered state with a heavily diminished capacity for reason, they weren't able to see much more than that they were being attacked, and the only way to guarantee safety was to kill everything to ensure their own safety. It's stated repeatedly that the Geth were not capable of understanding their actions due to this diminished mental state.

 

The geth unit in Legion's mission in ME3 seemed to understand how to defend his "bros" and even wanted to defend his "master", yet all of a sudden they can't tell the difference?

I've explained this. When the Quarians started to destroy the Geth en masse, it diminished the Geth's intellectual capabilities and their ability to reason. 

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

And what you think the Geth took out the military and government in one swell swoop and the rest of the Quarians went "PLEASE DON'T KILL US EVIL GETH!" and the Geth killed everyone else anyway? 

What proof is there of that?

a) Logic. Because conventional warfare doesn't result in a civilian casualty rate this utterly extreme.

Because the Geth literally hunted down the Quarians until they were out of the damn solar system. Whatever resistance was left at that point would have been more than negligible.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Necanor wrote...

Because the perpetrators were the Quarian military and government. Even after the Quarians were obviously defeated, the Geth just kept on butchering on those organics(not just Quarians).

If you want to write irrelevant nonsense sure, go ahead if it pleases you:D

The Quarian government declared martial law and ordered every Quarian to deactivate their Geth units, by force if necessary; if a civilian didn't comply they were detained or killed. Almost every Quarian was involved in the conflict, a war fought in every home, on every street. It was a fight where there was no line between combatant and civilian.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

Yeah, that's not possible. The quarians are going to scavenge around the galaxy, with Reapers and others doing the same. Somehow that just doesn't make any sense to me. 

Reapers don't scavenge. And you really don't see how a fleet with a stealth capable vessel like the Normandy could see where their was resources and no Reapers? REALLY? You can't see this?

They weren't going to reach a diplomatic solution with the geth. The geth haven't made a diplomatic solution with anyone in over 300 years. In fact, the geth were trying to make themselves into a permanent, one-minded consciousness of a ball. They weren't going to help anybody. The one and only reason they agreed to help was because of Shepard's Space Jeebusness, nothing more. They never planned on helping the quarians, just as the quarians never planned on helping them. 

Lie.

If Legion and Tali are both alive and loyal they flat out say they were trying to make the Quarians see reason. Tali tells you it would've worked had Xen's new toy hadn't gotten the Quarian warmongerings jollies and they decided to fight instead of comrpomise.

Also the Legion does promise you get alliance in the war against the Reapers in Mass Effect 2. SO where are you coming from with this they never were going to help tidbit? The Reapers threatened everyone the Geth included.

So yeah you might want to replay the game before saying the bolded. As for helping the Quarians given when they have Reaper upgrades and the Quarians stop ****ing attacking and the Quarians admit to needing help they offer to help them is pretty telling. Shep doesn't tell the Geth to do that.

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And what you think the Geth took out the military and government in one swell swoop and the rest of the Quarians went "PLEASE DON'T KILL US EVIL GETH!" and the Geth killed everyone else anyway? 

What proof is there of that?

a) Logic. Because conventional warfare doesn't result in a civilian casualty rate this utterly extreme.

Because the Geth literally hunted down the Quarians until they were out of the damn solar system. Whatever resistance was left at that point would have been more than negligible.

How does Logic equal the military and all hostile Quarians being wiped out in one fell swoop? 

Considering the militant Quarians were planning on doing the same to the Geth I'm playing the world's smallest violin.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:17 .

[RatThing]

My two cents on this. Even if the Quarians survived the Reaper invasion, how long would they survive in space anyways? Their ships would break apart someday. Colonizing another world? They all would die from infections if the counsil even would let them colonize it in the first place. Starting a war before or after the invasion. Council would have stopped them. So the Quarians did the only right thing in ME3, they seized the opportunity to have a chance for a  long term existence of their race.  
As for the Geth. For me they're Skynet, just dangerous technology. I don't even hate or blame them, I blame the few idiots who built them and then lose control over them (definitely not the whole Quarian race). I wish I had the option to control them and throw at the Reapers. Wasn't meant to be, so I either destroy them or make peace and head canon that I helped Xen to take control of them (I pick destroy anyways).

[DeinonSlayer]

Oh, what have I set in motion...

I'll have to jump in some time this evening if I can muster the will to do this all over again.

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...
Who said I do? Who said anyone did? I'm just debating ethics.

Debating Ethics by using my decisions in a video game.

Not to mention said decision is pretty much watching a group kill themselves by continuing to poke the tiger til it mauls them all while I watch with snacks.

I don't know you. Your decisions in video games are at least to a certain extent reflective fo your personality. You seem to like sadistic and vile decisons. How do you think that makes you look to a complete stranger?

[Ryzaki]

J. Reezy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...
Who said I do? Who said anyone did? I'm just debating ethics.

Debating Ethics by using my decisions in a video game.

Did you forget that Vidya Gaems are srs business?

Aww

To be fair though renedouche is the funniest playthrough.

There really should've been an achievement for punching that reporter through all 3 games.