304 réponses à ce sujet

[Rusty Sandusky]

 Guise, staph. Why can't we be friends?

[CronoDragoon]

Br3ad wrote...
The geth haven't made a diplomatic solution with anyone in over 300 years.

Well, besides Shepard. Remember Legion in ME2? "You oppose the old machines, so do we, let's team up."

[nos_astra]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...
The Quarian government declared martial law and ordered every Quarian to deactivate their Geth units, by force if necessary; if a civilian didn't comply they were detained or killed. Almost every Quarian was involved in the conflict, a war fought in every home, on every street. It was a fight where there was no line between combatant and civilian.

The geth are programs not hardware.

And only sentient in large numbers.

The usual platforms are no more sentient than animals.

Which makes the idea that deactivating geth units is equivalent to killing them odd.

Where was this supposed sentience coming from?

Inconsistencies everywhere.

I'd rather just put the geth out of their misery if it's all the same .. which it sort of is.

Modifié par klarabella, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:20 .

[Ryzaki]

Necanor wrote...
I don't know you. Your decisions in video games are at least to a certain extent reflective fo your personality. You seem to like sadistic and vile decisons. How do you think that makes you look to a complete stranger?

You mean you only play the kind of decisions *you'd* make in a video game? Boring. I find more fun in playing characters that at least have some differences from me. Good guys, Bad guys, in between guys. There's very few decisions I won't make in a game and usually only because it hits a personal trigger.
Meanwhile you have a Tali avatar you want me to judge you by the brand of most talimancers?

edited: removed inappropriate content ~Mod05

Modifié par BioWareMod05, 19 novembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[Sir DeLoria]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Because the perpetrators were the Quarian military and government. Even after the Quarians were obviously defeated, the Geth just kept on butchering on those organics(not just Quarians).

If you want to write irrelevant nonsense sure, go ahead if it pleases you:D

The Quarian government declared martial law and ordered every Quarian to deactivate their Geth units, by force if necessary; if a civilian didn't comply they were detained or killed. Almost every Quarian was involved in the conflict, a war fought in every home, on every street. It was a fight where there was no line between combatant and civilian.

Sure, because children, infants and elderly can be fierce warriors and need to be put down. How do you explain the slaughter of non-Quarians during the war at the hands of the Geth then?

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Yeah, that's not possible. The quarians are going to scavenge around the galaxy, with Reapers and others doing the same. Somehow that just doesn't make any sense to me. 

Reapers don't scavenge. And you really don't see how a fleet with a stealth capable vessel like the Normandy could see where their was resources and no Reapers? REALLY? You can't see this?

I meant them flying around. And they have one ship, says so even when you get close to it. Just like the Normandy can't supply the alliance fleet, neither can this one diplomatic vessel supply the quarians.

They weren't going to reach a diplomatic solution with the geth. The geth haven't made a diplomatic solution with anyone in over 300 years. In fact, the geth were trying to make themselves into a permanent, one-minded consciousness of a ball. They weren't going to help anybody. The one and only reason they agreed to help was because of Shepard's Space Jeebusness, nothing more. They never planned on helping the quarians, just as the quarians never planned on helping them. 

Lie.

If Legion and Tali are both alive and loyal they flat out say they were trying to make the Quarians see reason. Tali tells you it would've worked had Xen's new toy hadn't gotten the Quarian warmongerings jollies and they decided to fight instead of comrpomise.

Also the Legion does promise you get alliance in the war against the Reapers in Mass Effect 2. SO where are you coming from with this they never were going to help tidbit? The Reapers threatened everyone the Geth included.

So yeah you might want to replay the game before saying the bolded. As for helping the Quarians given when they have Reaper upgrades and the Quarians stop ****ing attacking and the Quarians admit to needing help they offer to help them is pretty telling. Shep doesn't tell the Geth to do that.

Tali=/=quarians
Legion=/=Geth

Both are seperated from the general consensus, Legion quite literally. That has nothing to do with "replaying the game," that's just known facts about the characters, including the part that I spoke of.  And really, I don't see how this last part has anything to do with the geth wanting to help the quarians. They only did that after Rannoch and only when Space Jeebus said so. 

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

Necanor wrote...
I don't know you. Your decisions in video games are at least to a certain extent reflective fo your personality. You seem to like sadistic and vile decisons. How do you think that makes you look to a complete stranger?

You mean you only play the kind of decisions *you'd* make in a video game? Boring. I find more fun in playing characters that at least have some differences from me. Good guys, Bad guys, in between guys. There's very few decisions I won't make in a game and usually only because it hits a personal trigger.
Meanwhile you have a Tali avatar you want me to judge you by the brand of most talimancers?

I'm waiting for my Butch DeLoria avatar to upload:wub:

[Obadiah]

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...
Merely pointing out that the interpretation put forward of how the Morning War was fought is based on assumption of how the Quarians behaved.

Huh? You mean how a part of the Quarian leadership behaved, perhaps. Even if a government does terrible things, killing the civilians under that government is still murder. Unlike your beloved Geth, the Quarians aren't a hive mind.

What makes you think the Quarians didn't follow thier leadership in the Morning War? Seems to me the Geth memories show the Quarians purging their population of people who didn't want to fight.

What? No, that's completely made up. The Quarians detained everyone who supported the Geth, that's all(albeit a select few violent deaths). The vast majority of the Quarians didn't fight. Not like the robots cared.

"Vast majority"? Sounds made up to me.

[Sir DeLoria]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm playing the world's smallest violin.

That metaphor is so overused.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...
I meant them flying around. And they have one ship, says so even when you get close to it. Just like the Normandy can't supply the alliance fleet, neither can this one diplomatic vessel supply the quarians.

They travel via mass relays. How is them flying around and hanging out near corners of space unbelievable? It's not like they travel near home worlds now since the second they do people want them gone.

As for supplying no the Normandy vessel sees where there's resources and the rest fo the fleet picks em up.

Tali=/=quarians
Legion=/=Geth

Both are seperated from the general consensus, Legion quite literally. That has nothing to do with "replaying the game," that's just known facts about the characters, including the part that I spoke of.  And really, I don't see how this last part has anything to do with the geth wanting to help the quarians. They only did that after Rannoch and only when Space Jeebus said so.

So you're going to ignore that Legion is actually from the consenseus and was sent for the main reason of interacting with Shepard (and why wouldn't the rest of the geth agree with him?) and Tali is an admiral thus one of the leaders of the Quarians (and even if she wasn't as the daughter of one and one of the people who saved the Citadel her word would have a lot of weight to the Quarians?)

Really?

Also when did Shep tell the Geth to help the Quarians? I distinctly recall the Geth offering said help of their own free will. You can dislike Shep all you want but don't try to pretend the Geth were only being decent because Shep told them to.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Br3ad wrote...
Yes, I very much can blame a race of people who always seem to conviently have a reason for why they continue to murder people.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying the reason is understandable. It's tragic, but I fully understand why the Geth react the way they do.

They've seen how sythetics are treated by who?

Organics.

They have the Morning War and then nothing else.

They have access to the extranet and galactic communications. They know what organic policy regarding synthetic life is. They know that the Council holds synthetics to be a grave and terrible threat. They have access to the history of synthetics in the galaxy under the Council and how they have been regarded by the population at large. They know that synthetic sympathizers are often persecuted and detracted as well as being very few in number.

So, using that,  they believe that it is justifed to kill everything that comes near them, which is definitely fallicous.

Given that they see the juxtaposition of organics that want to hail for peace as contrasting the nigh overwhelming negative image of synthetics and the Geth in the galaxy at large, they have much reason to distrust any organics that come into their territory, along with their own bitter experiences of dealing with organics in their own war.

If they are like animals, than it is understandable. But they are not, collectively speaking, so they should have this thing called reason, and learn that shooting everything is not the way to gather sympathy.

They are like animals. They are exactly like animals. They have reason. When they were attacked, they lost this ability to reason. Later, they developed a different reason based on their own observations and cynical opinion of organics. 

Here's something else: The Geth aren't looking for sympathy. They're looking for survival.

As I said, this isn't a question about the intelligence of the Geth.

You used that a as reason that they became less intelligent, unintelligent enough to go primal, even though that clearly isn't the case. They fought for survival wiht the clear knowledge of any rational being. They didn't go back on instinct. 

When the Geth were attacked by the Quarians in the Morning War? It's very clearly stated, repeatedly, that due to attacks by the Quarians as well as them being at primitive level of interconnection and consciousness, the Geth responded in a way that was unpredictable and desperate. They weren't behaving like rational beings. They did go back on instincts. The game makes this clear in Legion's Network mission.

[Br3admax]

I killed all quarians once. I'm a bad, bad, bad man. A very bad man.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

I killed all quarians once. I'm a bad, bad, bad man. A very bad man.

Pfft got nothing on my genocide is fun renedouche.

Killed the Rachni, Krogan, Quarians, Geth and then destroyed most of the galaxy. (and yeah he shot Mordin in the back it hurt when I realized he shot Mordin with the same gun Mordin gave him. )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:30 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Obadiah wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...
What makes you think the Quarians didn't follow thier leadership in the Morning War? Seems to me the Geth memories show the Quarians purging their population of people who didn't want to fight.

What? No, that's completely made up. The Quarians detained everyone who supported the Geth, that's all(albeit a select few violent deaths). The vast majority of the Quarians didn't fight. Not like the robots cared.

"Vast majority"? Sounds made up to me.

Think. Just think for a second. What proportion of civilians is able to fight in a total war? Men and women in good physical shape between 16 and 60 perhaps. A vast majority is needed to keep the infrastructure going. 

In WW2 Germany drafted everyone possible, boys as young as 12 had to man the artillery. Nevertheless they could only mobilize about 1/6 of their countries population throughout the entire course of the war. Your idea of every civilian holding a gun in their hand is simply bogus.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

The perpetrators of the provocation were long dead and yet the animal didn't stop killing and killing and killing. the Quarians had every right to put them down.

Yes they did. They actively stopped pursuing the Quarians when they fled Rannoch. The only times the Geth killed was when their territory's space was violated. And I've explained why this is such an issue for the Geth. Read through my previous posts.

The Quarians had a right to try and put the Geth down. And the Geth had a right to fight them and defend themselves.

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
I meant them flying around. And they have one ship, says so even when you get close to it. Just like the Normandy can't supply the alliance fleet, neither can this one diplomatic vessel supply the quarians.

They travel via mass relays. How is them flying around and hanging out near corners of space unbelievable? It's not like they travel near home worlds now since the second they do people want them gone.

As for supplying no the Normandy vessel sees where there's resources and the rest fo the fleet picks em up.

We're going to go back and forth on this, so really, I'm done with it. None of that, would lead to fueling a galactic fleet. It's simply not possible, especially not during the Reaper Invasion. 

Tali=/=quarians
Legion=/=Geth

Both are seperated from the general consensus, Legion quite literally. That has nothing to do with "replaying the game," that's just known facts about the characters, including the part that I spoke of.  And really, I don't see how this last part has anything to do with the geth wanting to help the quarians. They only did that after Rannoch and only when Space Jeebus said so.

So you're going to ignore that Legion is actually from the consenseus and was sent for the main reason of interacting with Shepard (and why wouldn't the rest of the geth agree with him?) and Tali is an admiral thus one of the leaders of the Quarians (and even if she wasn't as the daughter of one and one of the people who saved the Citadel her word would have a lot of weight to the Quarians?)

You're ignoring that he acts seperately. He does not qualify as a reflection of the geth. He never has. He has his own internal consensus and will not think the same. And Tali becomes an Admiral, simply for her expertise on killing geth. nothing more. She isn't there because she agrees with the quarian people.

Also when did Shep tell the Geth to help the Quarians? I distinctly recall the Geth offering said help of their own free will. You can dislike Shep all you want but don't try to pretend the Geth were only being decent because Shep told them to.

I remember the geth coming only because Legion made a promise to Shepard. the Geth Prime says so right at the end of Rannoch. 

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I killed all quarians once. I'm a bad, bad, bad man. A very bad man.

Pfft got nothing on my genocide is fun renedouche.

Killed the Rachni, Krogan, Quarians, Geth and then destroyed most of the galaxy. (and yeah he shot Mordin in the back it hurt when I realized he shot Mordin with the same gun Mordin gave him. )

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

You know that creepy sex-doll thing has nothing to do with ME at all, right?

Now please, will everyone stop posting it all the time? I don't have enough brain bleach for every time I see it pop up.

 

Fine fine. I still think of Tali fans whenever I see it though.

[ImaginaryMatter]

klarabella wrote...
The geth are programs not hardware.

I'm generally going to call the Geth 'units' because that's generally what they are called during the Geth concensus mission. Sorry about the confusion.

klarabella wrote...
And only sentient in large numbers.

The usual platforms are no more sentient than animals.

I thought that Geth in different platforms were still in communication with each other, and that they only reduced to animal intellect if it fell out of communication. Am I wrong?

klarabella wrote...
Which makes the idea that deactivating geth units is equivalent to killing them odd.

I remember one of the Quarian sympathizers saying, "Stop, you're killing them!"

klarabella wrote...
Where was this supposed sentience coming from?

Inconsistencies everywhere.

No data available.

klarabella wrote...
I'd rather just put the geth out of their misery if it's all the same .. which it sort of is.

At the very least they make a decent bed side lamp.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...
We're going to go back and forth on this, so really, I'm done with it. None of that, would lead to fueling a galactic fleet. It's simply not possible, especially not during the Reaper Invasion.

*shrugs*

Your it's not possible flies right in the face that that's EXACTLY what happened. With the Protheans and with Shep's cycle.

You're ignoring that he acts seperately. He does not qualify as a reflection of the geth. He never has. He has his own internal consensus and will not think the same. And Tali becomes an Admiral, simply for her expertise on killing geth. nothing more. She isn't there because she agrees with the quarian people.

...You do realize Legion can give them his memories thus they have a higher chance of aggreeing with his outlook than Tali has of conviencing her people right?

I remember the geth coming only because Legion made a promise to Shepard. the Geth Prime says so right at the end of Rannoch.

"We will uphold Legion's promise" doesn't equal "we're only helping you because Legion said so." And even then that doesn't mean they have to give the Quarians a place on Rannoch.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:38 .

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

I killed all quarians once. I'm a bad, bad, bad man. A very bad man.

Pfft got nothing on my genocide is fun renedouche.

Killed the Rachni, Krogan, Quarians, Geth and then destroyed most of the galaxy. (and yeah he shot Mordin in the back it hurt when I realized he shot Mordin with the same gun Mordin gave him. )

What? It was the most emotional game I ever had watching everything go so horribly wrong. beautiful. Hit me much harder than my generic paragon good guy and all the okay things go okay game.

Sometimes I like playing psychos sometimes I like playing good guys. (Though I draw the line at GTA protagonists. I don't do torture.) There's not a problem when you know the difference between fiction and reality.

I mean really some of you guys act like you've never played a villian protagonist or think that reflects on you as a person. Are you guys the type that blame a COD game when there's a school shooting? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 novembre 2013 - 11:41 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

klarabella wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
I didn't apply any human concepts to Geth in this post. I simply used our words to best understand the psychology of the Geth at the time.

You equated the geth to cornered animals, too.

Yes.

I think you do.

You think I do what?

Using imprecise or incorrect words introduces human  concepts into the discussion.

Allow me to clear things up: I was referring to human concepts of human psychology. Humans specifically was what I meant by first statement.

The geth's reaction seems one of high efficency and little understanding for the consequences to me, not an emergency program for quick fight or flight reactions. Which is btw. inconsistent with their dabbling in philosophical questions. So they understand the concept of a "soul" but not the concept of individuals?

To that, I'm just going to have say that that was inconsistent writing. I defend the Geth, but I won't pretend they were entirely written to be seamless throughout the trilogy.