93 réponses à ce sujet

[SirJoeofthePub]

Bleh. I really like the direction they are taking DA:I and if done right will make up for DA:2 in my eyes. However, having timed quests / events only serves a defeatists purpose. Why have a semi open world with grand locations and grand secrets when you just force the players to power through the game?

If it's only one or two big quests that are timed (like major sieges that you can initiate on your own time) then I can live with that, but if DA becomes a power play, timed and quicktime extravaganza, then no sale from me.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: But fortunately he states very clearly that you can go back to them.

I honestly don't understand a completionists worries... there's nothing (so far) indicating places will be closed off by timed limit type events.

Honestly - if you're defending a keep, chances are you were already through that area before to take it in the first place.

If a game is going to be leisurely - it should tell me. If a game is going to imply importance of something - then it should show me.

My worry is that if I do the Veilfire markings, I am somehow gonna screw up the rest of the time limit trying to save both the village and the keep.

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: Why don't you just go back to the cave after you save the keep/village?

The presenter said something like: "I'll have to grab this later for my scholars."

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 18 novembre 2013 - 07:37 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@eluvianix: Why don't you just go back to the cave after you save the keep/village?

The presenter said something like: "I'll have to grab this later for my scholars."

Under time constraints like that, I will probably forget that tidbit of knowledge, that I do have the option to return.

[Medhia Nox]

But, after you finish the defense - you'll be able to explore the whole region (and probably before)

You think you'd forget that you saw something important in the caves after the defense?

Even looked like you'd have time to jot down a note for yourself if necessary - that timer was crazy long.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 18 novembre 2013 - 07:40 .

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

But, after you finish the defense - you'll be able to explore the whole region (and probably before)

You think you'd forget that you saw something important in the caves after the defense?

Even looked like you'd have time to jot down a note for yourself if necessary - that timer was crazy long.

Or they made it that long just so it would not interfere with the demo.

[Jaulen]

I have to agree with some others that I LIKE the idea of timed events.

Why, for the love of Spaghetti, if you are told that someone's attacking, would you go exploring? This is one of the things that hasbothered me about DA games...even ME....."Oh! Super Important that we do this!!! Oh, you want to go planet mining for a week? Or go to Ostegar and find King Cailan's body and pop around there for a week? Ok....no problem....I'll tell the reapers/darkspawn to pause for a bit." Because doing it now or doing it later....it doesn't really matter.

I also LIKE that after the timed event is over, that the area remains OPEN so that you can go explore it....like someone else mentioned, it's not like you're going huge distances to explore an area in that example. you can still be as completionist as you want to your heart's content.

Modifié par Jaulen, 18 novembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[Medhia Nox]

@eluvianix: I am positive you'll be able to get those etchings. Have no fear.

[Slayer299]

I really dislike timed quests, I don't like feeling like I have to compete against against a clock if I want to poke my nose everywhere first before heading in to where I'm supposed to go.

[Medhia Nox]

...but there is every indication that you can go back...

[redwarf]

AlanC9 wrote...

I don't see how the first is a valid reason. Surely it's not in character to admire scenery while something urgent is happening. Hard to tell about talking to the NPCs --  depends on why you're talking to them. But if the situation is designed around urgency, it's not very likely that the NPCs are going to have anything much to say, is it? Bio's not going to write a bunch of dialogue they don't expect players to hear.

Exploring for intel is valid, of course. If alternate paths are there to be found, a competent player will have time to find them. Managing time effectively is part of the gameplay if they're bothering to put a timer in, right?

First of all I want to say I kept my original post vogue intetionally, one - to avoid spoilers, and two- because I wanted to address the issue of timed quests in general rather than this particular scenario only.


The world is facing apocalypse, everything is theoratically on a timer, why don't you lose any time travelling between areas? Why doesn't a timer start as soon as you enter the area, is the village not under attack then?
Maybe you (the player) have enough time, maybe you don't. Maybe you want to explore, maybe you don't. But why force the player with such an arbitrary, immersion breaking device?

[Nefla]

I'm fine with the occasional timed quest, it gives a sense of urgency.

[Eurypterid]

AlanC9 wrote...
I don't really follow what you mean here. What's the distinction between the timer and the game? The timer's part of the game isn't it?

What I mean is I spend so much time worrying about and watching the timer that I don't enjoy the other aspects of the game such as the scenery, the NPC interactions, possible exploration of side trips to maybe find another solution or something that might help with the current situation, various other aspects as well. Bottom line is I don't like it. I generally take my time and go slow when playing my games (especially RPGs) and I don't like being rushed to accomplish something in the game.

[Black Jimmy]

 I like it, based on what I saw in the preview.
It forces us to make choices on the fly with potentially drastic consiquences.

[The_Huntress]

redwarf wrote...

I dislike it for a number of reasons:
1) Myself as a player, I'm kind of a "completionist", I like to poke my nose in every corner, listen to every NPC, take everything that isn't bolted down, grab my wrench and take the stuff that is. This exploration is part of the joy of the game for me, with a time limit to an unknown end point you just can't do it.
Alternatively, I'm forced to backtrack simply so I could get a good look the area I was just in, how is that a good thing?

You will need more than one play through to see everything.  That is one of the concepts they had for this game.  Not all content needs to be accessable to every play through.  One of the things that timer does is open or close specific parts of the game.  It is not necesarily a bad thing, just a different thing.

For example, you see the badguy army in boats headed to the fishing village of Targetsberg.  You can race to Targetsberg and try to warn them. If you make it before the timer, you make it before the attacking fleet and fight a pithed battle at sea and on the port.  If you do not make it, the badguys capture Targetsberg and you will have to fight house by house to retake the village.  Alternatly you could abandon Targetsberg and press the attack against Badguy Port while their army is out at sea.  Targetsberg is razed to the ground and all quests from there are lost but you gain a new city and it's resources.

Anyway, the timer is just there tosee which door opens for you.  The flip side of this is that you will never be able to open all the doors with one game.

[Icy Magebane]

I don't really see a problem. If you're leading a mercenary force, and your HQ is under attack, you shouldn't be doing anything other than trying to deal with the situation. No admiring scenery, no talking to random strangers, and no side-quests that happen to be in the general area. I think it's good that the game is at least attempting to keep players focused on their mission, and giving them some kind of negative consequence if they ignore a potentially dire situation. Does it really make sense that the Red Templars are going to wait around for you to show up? Having every event in the world revolve around the player is unrealistic.

As people have said, this isn't the original Super Mario Brothers, where forward progress totally blocks you from going back. You can still go back and look around when you aren't involved in this type of mission.

[redwarf]

The_Huntress wrote...

You will need more than one play through to see everything.  That is one of the concepts they had for this game.  Not all content needs to be accessable to every play through.  One of the things that timer does is open or close specific parts of the game.  It is not necesarily a bad thing, just a different thing.

Timer =/= Choice.

I can choose between different options and
experience different branches just as well, if not better (=more enjoyment) without any timer at all.
Choosing between Templar/Mages, Elves/Werewolves, Bhelen/Otherdude all worked perfectly fine without any timer at all.

For example, you see the badguy army in boats headed to the fishing village of Targetsberg.  You can race to Targetsberg and try to warn them. If you make it before the timer, you make it before the attacking fleet and fight a pithed battle at sea and on the port.  If you do not make it, the badguys capture Targetsberg and you will have to fight house by house to retake the village.  Alternatly you could abandon Targetsberg and press the attack against Badguy Port while their army is out at sea.  Targetsberg is razed to the ground and all quests from there are lost but you gain a new city and it's resources.

Anyway, the timer is just there tosee which door opens for you.  The flip side of this is that you will never be able to open all the doors with one game.

Choosing between A - saving the village, or B - killing the bad guy, is a just that - a choice, what does timing the player has to do with it.

Why shouldn't I stop for 2 minuets and look at the (hopefully) epic battle for the defense of Targetsberg? I'm sure some artists and animators at Bioware worked quite hard on that.

Also, say that you chose to defend Targetsberg, but got in 10 seconds too late, would you keep playing? Or load a save and try to gain those few measly seconds?

Modifié par redwarf, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:14 .

[Inprea]

redwarf wrote...Choosing between A - saving the village, or B - killing the bad guy, is a just that - a choice, what does timing the player has to do with it.

Why shouldn't I stop for 2 minuets and look at the (hopefully) epic battle for the defense of Targetsberg? I'm sure some artists and animators at Bioware worked quite hard on that.

Also, say that you chose to defend Targetsberg, but got in 10 seconds too late, would you keep playing? Or load a save and try to gain those few measly seconds?

One reason i can think of is if the time matters it may be possible to rush down to the village, shred the enemy, then rush back to the keep in time to help them. If it's simply an absolute choice that has no regards to how quickly you can deal with the thread that ability vanishes. I would rather have the opportunity to save both sides based on my and my character's abilities.

Modifié par Inprea, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:17 .

[TeamLexana]

After plowing through a game 10 times, I probably wouldn't care about a timer anymore since I'll know where I need to go and what I need to do but I'd imagine those first 10 trys would get real old real quick if pathways keep getting shut down because I wasn't fast enough.

[Pressedcat]

I like the idea of an occasional timed event. Too often before we've been told in BioWare that we must urgently complete a task, only to be able to travel miles (or indeed lightyears) out of our way in order to complete a fetch quest. The timer gives a sense of immediacy and urgency to the task. Also, with a timer, BioWare have the ability to extend or decrease the time limit dependent on past actions, rather than simply say 'you must choose from A, B or C'.

Also, don't forget this is a pre-alpha build. I'm fairly sure BioWare will ensure that we know how long we have to complete an event, what we are capable of doing in said time, and ensuring that we have sufficient time to complete the task.

And seriously, if you have been sent an urgent message to relieve a fort and you stop to admire the view or chat to NPC's, the fault is your own if the walls are overwhelmed.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

Games are about compromise. You may dislike having to go back to an area to explore it, but by being able to go back you have that option to explore while those who want a sense of urgency in their game and a bit of challenge have that as well. (And note that if you're concerned about a challenge, just drop it down to a lower difficulty level.)

Personally, I'd hate if the entire game is timed, but I really doubt that would happen. I love some urgency in a particular quest. I understand that it's slightly silly that you can wait to start an event and it's not timed before, but again sometimes games are about compromise.

[redwarf]

Inprea wrote...

One reason i can think of is if the time matters it may be possible to rush down to the village, shred the enemy, then rush back to the keep in time to help them. If it's simply an absolute choice that has no regards to how quickly you can deal with the thread that ability vanishes. I would rather have the opportunity to save both sides based on my and my character's abilities.

That's exactly my point, if it's an either/or choice, then a timer doesn't add anything. If you want to go as fast as possible to the end point you can, but if you like to take a bit slower pace, you'll be panelized.

If it's not and absulote choice, and you fail because you were: not min/max to have an optimal party, a level too short, had bad RNG in fights, whatever - then to me, this kind of failure wouldn't be fun or acceptable, to me it's BS and I'll probably reload and try to get it right.

[redwarf]

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

Games are about compromise. You may dislike having to go back to an area to explore it, but by being able to go back you have that option to explore while those who want a sense of urgency in their game and a bit of challenge have that as well. (And note that if you're concerned about a challenge, just drop it down to a lower difficulty level.)

Personally, I'd hate if the entire game is timed, but I really doubt that would happen. I love some urgency in a particular quest. I understand that it's slightly silly that you can wait to start an event and it's not timed before, but again sometimes games are about compromise.

If you read my OP, I said that timer is just one way of conveying urgency, and in my opinion it's not a good one.
Why? Because it breaks the fourth wall, suddenly instead of focusing on the game itself you're focused on this little thing in your UI.

Also, it breaks my immersion by appearing "out of the blue".If the whole game isn't timed, so why this? why now? why after I'm finished with it the timer goes away? It's an exception that breaks the time flow of the game.

[Pressedcat]

I could equally argue that it breaks my immersion when given an urgent quest that I'm told I must complete immediately, and then find there is no consequence if I dither about for an hour collecting potion ingredients.

Also, it is entirely realistic that during the overarching quest there are a few incidences with far more marked deadlines.

You seem to be jumping the gun somewhat by saying you are against this gameplay element when we have no details other than a short video of a very early version of the game. BioWare will be testing out new gameplay elements, such as these timed events, so they may very well drop them if they prove unpopular amongst testers.

[snackrat]

Tinxa wrote...

...In ME3 I didn't know that it was important to save the crew right away, I just thought it was "important" like NPCs always say it is, but it really isn't. I was in for a nasty surprise when I accidentaly killed all my crew and then found out on the internet I was being timed...

You're not. Not technically. It doesn't matter how much time you spend wandering around the ship, or reading eMails, or drinking at the bars throughout the galaxy. It's dependant on the number of missions you do, so there isn't a specific timer. Would break the world a little bit to say "we have time for one or two missions, any more and we might lose somebody". And dialogue does much it clear you are low on time, what are they supposed to do?

I do agree that it probably should have been better telegraphed. I only avoided the same fate because I always did the recruit/loyalty quests as soon as they were available, so with nothing else to do I used the IFF right away.