810 réponses à ce sujet

[bmwcrazy]

TheChris92 wrote...

I don't want to play a shooter, when I play Fallout. Improving the shooting mechanics is fine with me, but not at the cost of the RPG elements -- Because that usually meas that stats end up becoming utterly meaningless as you can somehow hit a fly, from a mile away, with a 9mm without no prior knowledge of weapons training anyway. That was what ME2 did wrong, imo. It was also a problem in Human Revolution. I do agree that it is silly that a bloke can just shrug off a bullet to the head. But this is Fallout we are talking about, not any of those spunkgargleweewee-spectacular-realistic'-shooters. There are people turning into Super-Mutants, after getting exposed to 'magic' as opposed to good ol' toxic waste which will usually just kill you. Not to mention the Courier, from NV, being shot in the head and somehow able to 'walk that off'.

Ravensword wrote...

Yeah, no. When I play an FO game I expect it to be an FO game and not a dudebro shooter w/ RPG elements, thank you very much.

Mr.House wrote...

Nothing will make me hate Bethesdas Fallout more if they did this. When I play a FO game I expect heavy stats, not a generic FPS. 

Liamv2 wrote...

What those 3 said. ^

You can still have your Fallout RPG with realistic shooting mechanics and weapon behaviors. You don't have to make it a "dudebro" one shot one skill shooter, but at least make the guns fire like real guns.

 
Strength: better armors, more carry weight, more effective melee combat, reduce weapon recoil etc.

Perception: better detection of enemies, ability to track and stalk your targets, disarm traps, and better stealth like hiding from your enemies.

Endurance: increases your health, stamina, damage threshold and damage resistance.

Charisma: improves your appearance, speech and barter skills, like the ability to talk yourself out of troubles.

Intelligence: better handling of the weapons and other equipements like more weapon damage, more accurate aiming (like your scope and iron sight move around less so becomes easier for you to hit a target or a fly from a mile away) , more effective weapon upgrades and decreases weapon degradation.

Agility: faster reload, faster movements, faster aiming, increases your action points, ability to dodge attacks and use slow-motion.

Luck: improves your chance of landing a critical hit and affects your other skills.

Modifié par bmwcrazy, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:03 .

[Liamv2]

Yeah the ending kinda sucked. For a morally gray conflict it got resolved alarmingly quickly.

[happy_daiz]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Ok, the UI was ****, I can give you that, but I honestly don't care about the writing (Especially if I am buying a game from Bethesda).

I kind of just equate 'open-world' with a 'looser story'. And even then, I liked the FO3 story. For me, it doesn't need to be spoon-fed. I like to explore, and find it for myself. And the story I find might not be the main quest. It might be what I observe. What I read. What I do. To me, that is the story in a Bethesda game. Anything that enriches the experience is a bonus.

In a Bioware-type story, it tends to be more 'on rails'. It has to be, to keep the focus, and tell the story in a compelling, appropriate way.

Let's hope they improve the UI, and the character models (I always hated how my characters looked, how they ran, etc.), and the gameplay itself. A lot of time has passed since FO3 came out; let's hope they've learned some new tricks since then.

[TheChris92]

bmwcrazy wrote...
You can still have your Fallout RPG with realistic shooting mechanics and weapon behaviors. You don't have to make it a "dudebro" one shot one skill shooter, but at least make the guns fire like real guns.

 
Strength: better armors, more carry weight, more effective melee combat, reduce weapon recoil etc.

Perception: better detection of enemies, ability to track and stalk your targets, disarm traps, and better stealth like hiding from your enemies.

Endurance: increases your health, stamina, damage threshold and damage resistance.

Charisma: improves your appearance, speech and barter skills, like the ability to talk yourself out of troubles.

Intelligence: better handling of the weapons and other equipements like more weapon damage, more accurate aiming (like your scope and iron sight move around less so becomes easier for you to hit a target or a fly from a mile away) , more effective weapon upgrades and decreases weapon degradation.

Agility: faster reload, faster movements, faster aiming, increases your action points, ability to dodge attacks and use slow-motion.

Luck: improves your chance of landing a critical hit and affects your other skills.

I mentioned in my previous post that I do not mind improved shooting mechanics, as long as it is not at the expense of the RPG mechanics; Although, from what I've seen, that's usually how it goes if ME2 or Deus Ex is anything to talk about. You seem to either get a shooter with the option of changing your equipment, and level up and call that an RPG, or you get an RPG with dodgy shooting mechanics like ME1. I'll see it before I believe it. I think your example is a bit far fetched, if you allow every stat to improve your shooting in some way. The way it was in NV with agility, luck & perception was fine. Let's keep it like that or alternatively do it like System Shcok 2 & Deus Ex. None of their successors have managed to balance the RPG mechanics with the shooting -- They've either abandoned them entirely or dumbed them down. So, you'll have to forgive for not holding out much hope for an improved balance. 

[Splinter Cell 108]

I hope Obsidian is doing it and for the love of god do NOT use Gamebryo or something that built with Gamebryo as the basis. Bethesda owns Id, they should use Id Tech 5.

[TheBlackBaron]

You know, I'll probably still get it. Hopefully Bethsoft will stick to their corner of the Fallout universe, over on the East Coast. If they explore some of the threads from FO3 (the remains of Massachusetts and MIT, e.g. the Commonwealth and the Institute, the Underground Railroad, the androids), or even go south since Point Lookout was so well received, I think I'd enjoy that.

Nonetheless, I'd still really like to see Obsidian get a crack at making a New Vegas prequel covering what Van Buren was originally going to cover.

[Barbarossa2010]

FINALLY!

[bmwcrazy]

TheChris92 wrote...

I mentioned in my previous post that I do not mind improved shooting mechanics, as long as it is not at the expense of the RPG mechanics; Although, from what I've seen, that's usually how it goes if ME2 or Deus Ex is anything to talk about. You seem to either get a shooter with the option of changing your equipment, and level up and call that an RPG, or you get an RPG with dodgy shooting mechanics like ME1. I'll see it before I believe it. I think your example is a bit far fetched, if you allow every stat to improve your shooting in some way. The way it was in NV with agility, luck & perception was fine. Let's keep it like that or alternatively do it like System Shcok 2 & Deus Ex. None of their successors have managed to balance the RPG mechanics with the shooting -- They've either abandoned them entirely or dumbed them down. So, you'll have to forgive for not holding out much hope for an improved balance. 

Deus Ex is very much a RPG with dodgy action mechanics and I actually prefer Human Revolution's mechanics over it.

I don't understand what you mean by my example is far fetched, it should be fairly easy to implement in any shooter or shooter RPGs and there are many games that already use a similar skill system.

I guess it's just too much to ask for better and more realistic weapon mechanics in a Fallout game without people screaming heresy.

Modifié par bmwcrazy, 18 novembre 2013 - 08:49 .

[TheChris92]

bmwcrazy wrote...
Deus Ex is very much a RPG with dodgy action mechanics and I actually prefer Human Revolution's mechanics over it.

Yes, that was my point -- You either get an RPG with dodgy action/shooter mechanics or an action-shooter with a few RPG elements, like say changing your equipment or leveling up. Ala, Human Revolution or ME2. The lesson here is that they tend not to mix well together. The reason why I mentioned Deus Ex or System Shock 2 (a good balance) is because they had their priorities straight. They weren't perfect, but no other game has done it better than them. It's fine if you like Human Revolution's dumbed down system as I'd call it, but I do not. Having Jensen be adept with every weapon kills the idea of role-playing him differently.

I don't understand what you mean by my example is far fetched, it should be fairly easy to implement in any shooter or shooter RPGs and there are many games that already use a similar skill system.

I guess it's just too much to ask for better and more realistic weapon mechanics in a Fallout game without people screaming heresy.

Exactly as I said -- Having every attribute set to improve combat/shooting would unbalance the game. In New Vegas we had Perception, Luck and Agility, which usually would improve your chances for crit & aiming. That system worked fine in New Vegas no need to change that. I'd certainly like to hear what games you're thinking of that has this 'perfect balance' between shooter & RPG.

I guess it's just too much to ask for better and more realistic weapon mechanics in a Fallout game without people screaming heresy.

Realistic? Yes. Asking for more realism in games is just silly - We get enough of that brown, noisy edgy nonsense from your average shooters. Games like GTA IV made the mistake of grounding itself in realism, at the cost of what made the previous games fun. I just hate that term 'realism' in reference to games. It's already funny to ask for something like that in a game that's completely wacky with its science like Fallout anyway. Better shooting mechanics though? No, that's not too much to ask for but there needs to be a better balance than what we've seen before.

Modifié par TheChris92, 18 novembre 2013 - 09:40 .

[lady_v23]

I need this to be true!! I've been waiting for so long!

[Vort3xX]

F*ck Obsidan and Bethesda, Fallout SHOULD be turn based, period ! and until that happpens no more fallout games should be made.

What is needs is: better writing, fleshed out characters, tactical combat not just a simple shooter, hardcore mode as New Vegas, remove useless perks like a "free level" etc and include better ones that really can enhance your playstyle, let me join the oppposing faction not just f*ck up for both sides like blowing up a base, meaningful side quests and lastly re-balance enemy stat and equipment scaling in higher levels and difficulty so it becomes more challenging, more special encounter and make slavers den a joinable faction because i want to be really evil and not just doing minor slaving work.

Modifié par Vort3xX, 18 novembre 2013 - 10:01 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

While I agree that the writing of FONV was better than FO3 overall, I still prefer FO3 because it's more conducive to playing a character. Since I'm just as new to the Wasteland as the Lone Wanderer is, I'm free to discover things in a way that feels natural to me and to stay consistent with whatever ethical framework I choose to adopt. Regardless of how you play the relationship between the LW and his/her father, the fact remains that you discover fairly quickly that what you were told about your past and the circumstances of your birth was a lie, and I think most people would be motivated to find out what the real story is.

FONV requires me to go around looking for conflicts to stick my nose into a lot of the time, especially if I'm playing somebody who's more inclined to count my blessings and keep my head down after my narrow escape from Benny and the Khans rather than pursuing Benny to the Strip. Same with the larger political conflict - the NCR and Legion talk a big game about how something monumental is *about* to happen, but at most there are a few small pieces of territory that actually change hands before the big final battle. Plus, it seems odd that the Courier has been working in this general area for a while and has no real opinion about the factions until (s)he comes face-to-face with them.

[Mr.House]

WittingEight65 wrote...

I'm really excited for this game, it doesn't matter what you haters say, FO3 was a complete success in every single way and you all know it.

How much is Todd paying you?

[Nole]

Mr.House wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

I'm really excited for this game, it doesn't matter what you haters say, FO3 was a complete success in every single way and you all know it.

How much is Todd paying you?

More than Obsidian.

[Barbarossa2010]

I'll sign up for better weapon mechanics...and more and better weapons...and more [and craftable] weapon mods...and maintaining the expansion of crafting, survival skills and reloading from NV. 

I'm not sure Bethesda could pull off better real-time mechanical gunplay, but I'd be up for it as long as nothing was sacrificed to give it to us.  As far as I'm concerned what they have works for me. I probably free-gunned about 70-75% of the time throughout FO3 and NV, and usually only fell back on VATS when I needed to extract myself from the deep pooh. So, to me, real-time gunplay, while certainly clunky, is serviceable. Eh, if they can do it, great, if not, then no great loss to me personally.

Weapon effects could stand improvement. Headshots should be harder to pull-off, but they should be insta-kills against the unprotected heads of non-mutants. Same should hold true of enemies shooting at the PC. Of course, I'm just nitpicking, I enjoyed the $#!+ out of FO3 and NV. Having not played the previous entries, I'm not emotionally invested enough to cast dispersions from anonymity.

What I want more than anything though is expanded weapon/modification choice, and taking the next step in, or at least maintaining, the expansion of crafting, survival, and reloading which was a vast improvement in NV.

[bmwcrazy]

TheChris92 wrote...

Exactly as I said -- Having every attribute set to improve combat/shooting would unbalance the game. In New Vegas we had Perception, Luck and Agility, which usually would improve your chances for crit & aiming. That system worked fine in New Vegas no need to change that. I'd certainly like to hear what games you're thinking of that has this 'perfect balance' between shooter & RPG.

How would it unbalance the game?

The whole point of being a RPG is to level up your characters and improve the stats. Reducing recoil, increasing damage, and making your weapons easier to handle are all a part of it.

You can get all that and still have a balanced game with plenty of fairly realistic weapon characteristics and great combat mechanics.

[FlyingSquirrel]

MarchWaltz wrote...

I want the shooting to be ACTUAL shooting.

Tired of a .50 cal hitting a HUMAN head and the bad guy is like

"hey man that was rude my head is now crippled"

I want Fallout 4 to be like FarCry 3 except with (obviously) way more rpg elements. But keep the shooting.

OTOH, playing with a "crippled head" could make things interesting when I was running low on stimpaks or doctor's bags. At least one of the tougher vaults in FONV really kicked my ass (in a good way) - I was stumbling around, low on ammo with blurred vision, hoping I could just make it to the exit before I died of radiation poisoning.

[Barbarossa2010]

bmwcrazy wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Exactly as I said -- Having every attribute set to improve combat/shooting would unbalance the game. In New Vegas we had Perception, Luck and Agility, which usually would improve your chances for crit & aiming. That system worked fine in New Vegas no need to change that. I'd certainly like to hear what games you're thinking of that has this 'perfect balance' between shooter & RPG.

How would it unbalance the game?

The whole point of being a RPG is to level up your characters and improve the stats. Reducing recoil, increasing damage, and making your weapons easier to handle are all a part of it.

You can get all that and still have a balanced game with plenty of fairly realistic weapon characteristics and great combat mechanics.

Exactly, tying gunplay to level with the resultant performance in recoil, stability, DAM/DPS, weight and handling is the solution to improving it. There can be perks in the system to increase these abilities or perks to enhance pause combat mechanics like VATS.  The player would choose his or her path with a restriction built-in to prevent them from being able to fully enhance both...just thinking out loud there. Add in weapon type and then a whole other dimension begins to emerge. Using exploration to find (or my preference -crafting-) weapons mods takes on a whole new, and possibly urgent, meaning then.

[Snook]

And then, at the end of the countdown, announcing...Fallout the mobile game.

[TheChris92]

bmwcrazy wrote...


How would it unbalance the game?

The whole point of being a RPG is to level up your characters and improve the stats. Reducing recoil, increasing damage, and making your weapons easier to handle are all a part of it.

You can get all that and still have a balanced game with plenty of fairly realistic weapon characteristics and great combat mechanics.

Hmm, I think I see the problem here; I might have misunderstood your post. I read it as you wanting each attribute to be tied to improving the MC's skill with the gunplay, unless that was your intention. Anyway, the system as it is now in New Vegas works - The shooting can always be improved. I'm not even disagreeing with you here. I'm all for better shooting mechanics if implemented without the expsense of anything else. If it is still largely determined on how good your attributes are, then all the better.

Modifié par TheChris92, 19 novembre 2013 - 12:08 .

[ADelusiveMan]

Liamv2 wrote...

Ah yes they also made a website.

http://thesurvivor2299.com

My inner fanboy just went insane. I'm excited.

[CroGamer002]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

And then, at the end of the countdown, announcing...Fallout the mobile game.

You really had to remind of that Square Enix screw up?!

[Ravensword]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

And then, at the end of the countdown, announcing...Fallout the mobile game.

Dear god, no.