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[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...
House's vision for New Vegas is just as selfish as the NCR's is. House isn't altruistic, which is clear enough t see when he butchers the Kings unless they violently persecute NCR soldiers and NCR citizens. I'm not buying ino House's "despotic vision of pre-War glory" for New Vegas. And House isn't the only one with intellect in the Mojave. You might favor his vision for the future, but I certainly don't.

I fail to see how House would benefit from persecuting NCR citizens, they're his main customers. If you're referring to the ending slide in which House reprimands the Kings for helping NCR, that's a different story. What do you think any country, government, military would do to people who were collaborating with the enemy? You can't honestly expect House to trust them, and if its about him taking over, isn't that best anyway? House remade the Strip, the Kings have had their time in Freeside and they have done nothing to make it a better place, if anything it has gotten worse with the Van Graffs and the Garrets doing as they please because the Kings don't want to do anything about it. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 20 novembre 2013 - 05:18 .

[Mr.House]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Cass is a NCR supporter, of course she is not going to be thrilled that the NCR just got bumrushed out of Nevada.

The families are also used for a way for House to make money, which he uses for many things, none of which are for selfish means(unlike the NCR) and his plans are consistent with that. House is the only one who has the brain to think long term, create a way for large amount of revenue, reopen the factories and start finding a way to get humans off that hellhole.

House is not trying to remake the old world, the NCR is though. Hosue is simply using old means to make large money so he can do his real goals which are revealed in his path.

House's vision for New Vegas is just as selfish as the NCR's is. House isn't altruistic, which is clear enough to see when he butchers the Kings unless they violently persecute NCR soldiers and NCR citizens. I'm not buying into House's "despotic vision of pre-War glory" for New Vegas. And House isn't the only one with intellect in the Mojave. You might favor his vision for the future, but I certainly don't.

He butchers the Kings if they where allies with the NCR, I see no issue with that, you can enjoy your chaos all you want, I go where the best future for the people are.

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

House's vision for New Vegas is just as selfish as the NCR's is. House isn't altruistic, which is clear enough t see when he butchers the Kings unless they violently persecute NCR soldiers and NCR citizens. I'm not buying ino House's "despotic vision of pre-War glory" for New Vegas. And House isn't the only one with intellect in the Mojave. You might favor his vision for the future, but I certainly don't.

I fail to see how House would benefit from persecuting NCR citizens, they're his main customers. If you're referring to the ending slide in which House reprimands the Kings for helping NCR, that's a different story. What do you think any country, government, military would do to people who were collaborating with the enemy? You can't honestly expect House to trust them, and if its about him taking over, isn't that best anyway?

You mean working with NCR to give food to people living in Freeside. Give me a damn break.

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

House remade the Strip, the Kings have had their time in Freeside and they have done nothing to make it a better place, if anything it has gotten worse with the Van Graffs and the Garrets doing as they please because the Kings don't want to do anything about it. 

The Van Graffs killed some of the Kings when they tried to remove the energy weapon dealers from Freeside, and the King is willing to work with NCR to give food to the people. The Garrets aren't evil incarnate, and will work with the Followers of the Apocalypse for a mutual benefit that can help people.

[Splinter Cell 108]

How do you know that sharing food is all they are doing? Or that their little partnership didn't change after Hoover Dam. I for one would not be surprised if it did, and even if it didn't they still collaborated with the enemy, anyone else would have done the same regardless of what you think. So what just because, they killed a few men, its OK to leave the Van Graffs alone? Yeah, so the Garrets are willing to work with the Followers, for a price, don't you remember? As long as it is beneficial to them, they'll provide help, when it stops helping them, you don't think they'll quit on the followers?

Stop putting the Kings on a pedestal, they are not as innocent as they seem, if anyone disagrees with them they step on them, they stopped giving free water because NCR was around didn't they? House also gave them a choice, they chose to fight, they could have just kept quiet.With them gone, Freeside will be infinitely better and that is a fact proven by what has happened in the Strip.

This is a pointless argument and it is going nowhere, you believe what you want, the problem isn't as black and white as you want to think but whatever and House isn't a power hungry maniac. No side is without its faults, not even independence like you want to believe.

[LobselVith8]

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

House's vision for New Vegas is just as selfish as the NCR's is. House isn't altruistic, which is clear enough to see when he butchers the Kings unless they violently persecute NCR soldiers and NCR citizens. I'm not buying into House's "despotic vision of pre-War glory" for New Vegas. And House isn't the only one with intellect in the Mojave. You might favor his vision for the future, but I certainly don't.

He butchers the Kings if they where allies with the NCR, I see no issue with that, you can enjoy your chaos all you want, I go where the best future for the people are.

The best future my Courier can give the people of the Mojave is one free of the Legion, the NCR, and House.

Since we've pretty much exhausted this discussion about House, I'm curious, when it came to the choices over Harold and Ashur, what did you guys choose to do?

[Mr.House]

I sided with Ashur.

[TheBlackBaron]

Yep Ashur.

I usually go Wild Card myself, with some definite Brotherhood sympathies. I mostly view it as just creating a libertarian paradise (because Fallout is one game where asking for realism would be terribly remiss).

[Ravensword]

Dave of Canada wrote...

House or Legion is the only way.

OMG. Like, such a tough choice there, mang.

[Seboist]

Legion with a female courier all the way.

[Hey]

i need some mother ****ing news stat

[Ozzy]

Mr.House wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

NCR vet Ranger>Bos Knight

That's like picking between two bad choices, far as I'm concerned.

Well being Mr.Houses partner is the best but you can't really make that for the case.

I accidentally killed him during my only run through of NV. Right after meeting him, I got curious as to what would happen if I hacked all the computers around.

Oops. 

[Mr.House]

Ravensword wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

House or Legion is the only way.

OMG. Like, such a tough choice there, mang.

I know you love me.

[Liamv2]

I killed house on my first playthrough. I am trying to think of what factions did not eradicate. I think i left the followers alone.

[Seagloom]

Yeah, I went with independent Vegas the first time I completed FNV too. I read it ends horribly if your Courier has low karma. Fortunately mine was a goody two-shoes. To be honest, House was the only faction I felt bad about turning on. Mainly because he invests so much trust in the Courier, and she double crosses him to achieve her goals.

On the whole I do not believe any of the Factions or anarchy will lead to a flawlessly shiny happy ending for the Mojave in the long term. We learn what happens in the next few years--not generations later.

I did not get the impression House wanted to rebuild the past exactly. I thought he wished to rebuild and preserve his idealized image of it instead. Everything House found worth preserving... all its splendor, elegance, and culture; except with him at the helm to prevent another collapse. House talks a big game about his long term plans, but in the end they are all about protecting something superficial.

House's strength is utter self confidence, but it also results in a lack of empathy; which I found to be a weakness. Caesar may be a twisted monster I would never support, but at least he believes in something real. House's goals are a built on a foundation of sand. He fails to realize his dreams are ultimately as empty as his robots. I think the future of humanity should be about elevating humanity. Not striving to create a real world version of a snowglobe because one intelligent man finds the aesthetic pleasing. Were House more concerned about the betterment of the human race, I would have felt differently. As it stands he sees people as another expendable resource, and is not truly working toward a common good.

All that said, I think House would be an ideal choice for a Courier who is mercenary minded and only cares about living out their days comfortably.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:39 .

[Liamv2]

I felt kinda bad for smashing the NCR. They only wanted peace but Cass put things into perspective. They have nowhere near enough resources to keep things running.

[Seagloom]

Liamv2 wrote...

I felt kinda bad for smashing the NCR. They only wanted peace but Cass put things into perspective. They have nowhere near enough resources to keep things running.

I didn't feel a shred of remorse over that. I almost spared Oliver until he remarked that if he were in my shoes I would be dead. That was when I had Yes Man throw him off a cliff.

I won't get into my issues with the NCR right now. Gotta start my morning routine shortly. I guess they would be my second choice after an independent Vegas, but man do they have a lot of issues.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:42 .

[Ravensword]

Mr.House wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

House or Legion is the only way.

OMG. Like, such a tough choice there, mang.

I know you love me.

Yeah, well, you know me.

[Mr.House]

Seagloom wrote...

Yeah, I went with independent Vegas the first time I completed FNV too. I read it ends horribly if your Courier has low karma. Fortunately mine was a goody two-shoes. To be honest, House was the only faction I felt bad about turning on. Mainly because he invests so much trust in the Courier, and she double crosses him to achieve her goals.

On the whole I do not believe any of the Factions or anarchy will lead to a flawlessly shiny happy ending for the Mojave in the long term. We learn what happens in the next few years--not generations later.

I did not get the impression House wanted to rebuild the past exactly. I thought he wished to rebuild and preserve his idealized image of it instead. Everything House found worth preserving... all its splendor, elegance, and culture; except with him at the helm to prevent another collapse. House talks a big game about his long term plans, but in the end they are all about protecting something superficial.

House's strength is utter self confidence, but it also results in a lack of empathy; which I found to be a weakness. Caesar may be a twisted monster I would never support, but at least he believes in something real. House's goals are a built on a foundation of sand. He fails to realize his dreams are ultimately as empty as his robots. I think the future of humanity should be about elevating humanity. Not striving to create a real world version of a snowglobe because one intelligent man finds the aesthetic pleasing. Were House more concerned about the betterment of the human race, I would have felt differently. As it stands he sees people as another expendable resource, and is not truly working toward a common good.

All that said, I think House would be an ideal choice for a Courier who is mercenary minded and only cares about living out their days comfortably.

My Courier was a ex-NCR ranger who was presumed KIA but changed her looks and name and wandered around doing odd jobs and trying to rid the memories of the incident that happen and harboring dislike for the NCR though she does use them to get paid. For her, House showed a future she could be a part of and helped, gaining Houses complete trust and becoming a real partner, not a tool, for her she found a place she would have no issue protecting after all the hazzards she went through including the Divide where her and Ulysses teamed up and fought side by side. She also fully agrees with Houses plans and with Big Mountain under her control, she helped House.

[Jaison1986]

I went with Independent Vegas. I don't support slavers of any kind, and while there are some really nice folk on the NCR, their leadership is crawling with inept bureaucrats, and Vegas is ultimately better off without them. With House, his plans seemed promissing, but the more I talked with him, the more I saw an utilitarian, and the less I saw an humanist. He aways says how he have big plans for the Mojave, yet he gives little to no attention to the small folk. And in the end, I just couldn't help it but to feel an big distate for him as an person. Besides, House is not the only person that can have promissing plans for the future.

[Liamv2]

I did not trust house I got a massive "a man chooses a slave obeys vibe from him" and found it impossible to trust him.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Mr.House wrote...

I sided with Ashur.

Same, Wehrner is an opportunist and he's out for riches and glory like most of the moronsin the wasteland. I just wish the Pitt had been longer, it had a lot of promise. 

[Dave of Canada]

House is the most promising but he's a ticking time bomb, his entire society will collapse with his death.

NCR is incompetent, they talk big but they don't have anything to back it up and they'd fail to protect the Mojave and would exploit everyone.

Legion is competent, they're building a society which could stand the test of time... if they make it that far, that is. They're all built on Caesar, his death could mean the collapse of the Legion. We see what happens if you kill Caesar, it just leads to a worse Legion which collapses amongst itself.

Independent leaves Vegas to it's own devices which isn't that great to begin with.

[Dean_the_Young]

King KvT wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

I just thought does the legion control Europe?

As far as I'm aware, Caesar's Legion only rules over New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and most of Utah.

And I doubt that Fallout would leave the US, seeing as the 1950's America aspect is essentially the main theme of the game. Although I would like to at least get a mention of what's gone on outside the US, even if it was just into Canada or Mexico.

They've definitely considered it in the past, by their own admission, so it's not outrageous. My bigger concern is how they'd handle the inevitable proliferation of energy weapons and power armor. In the canon, those were cutting-edge/emerging technologies based in North America- how much do you want to bet that we'd suddenly find that Europe (or China, or anywhere else) has plenty of them as well? Suddenly 'experimental' or 'captured/stolen' samples will be everywhere. Either that, or stylistic changes which will (probably) lose a lot of that Old World style.

Not saying you couldn't make a fun game out of it (Fallout in China would be interesting in a lot of ways), but I'd be concerned about how they handle it.

[Dean_the_Young]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

bmwcrazy wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Because grey and brown is so fun to explore right?

I thought the same when I first saw the Fallout 3 screenshots, but then I played the game and I was surprised how fun it actually was to explore the wasteland.

New Vegas was pretty much the same to me except with more greens.

I agree with what you;re saying about Fallout 3 but disagree on New Vegas, after using a mod called Tale of Two Wastelands  a mod that merges both games, there is a huge difference in everything, exploration included. I felt that FO3 didn't have enough interesting places, there's nothing like the Strip or Freeside which, Rivet City and Megaton aren't all that exciting.

Instead, in New Vegas you can see the far away lights of the Strip, that alone makes it so much better and for god's sake FO3's music is so boring sometimes, especially in Megaton and Rivet City. New Vegas just felt more alive, and maybe that's precisely what they didn't want to do with Fallout 3 but either way I enjoy the Mojave way more than the CW.  

If there's one part about the world-design of Fallout 3 that I don't like, it's the settlement placement. Maybe it's a strength to some, but the fact that it's hard to find (in-world) signs or directions to, well, anywhere only highlights the relative lack of places to go.

FNV worked this pretty well by making the highways the dominant routes of travel. They did it by making it really, really obvious on the map where most settlements were (the big roads), they boxed in the player to various degrees with various high-level creature areas (the blockade to Vegas), and of course each settlement you went to had someone telling you where the next few closest areas were. It was an interconnected world.

I never got that feeling with FO3. It was very, very rare to get a clue or direction to the next settlement, and most of them were insignificant or had almost nothing to offer. Few dominant paths across the wasteland (since it was generally easier to go straight across hills rather than follow general paths), and if you didn't look them up it would be easy to never find a good number of the non-key plot settlements.

[Seagloom]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Legion is competent, they're building a society which could stand the test of time... if they make it that far, that is. They're all built on Caesar, his death could mean the collapse of the Legion. We see what happens if you kill Caesar, it just leads to a worse Legion which collapses amongst itself.

Independent leaves Vegas to it's own devices which isn't that great to begin with.

I doubt the Legion could stand the test of time. At its core the Legion is a cult of personality, as you noted. Everyone in it is a slave except Caesar. Given Caesar is not as keen on technology as House, he is unlikely to survive long enough for a Legion controlled society to stabilize.

If the Legion did somehow thrive after Caesar's death, their long term prospects are still dicey because of their aversion to technology. The Legion might be willing to utilize existing tech to gain a tactical advantage in a battle, but they are disinterested in making their own advances. That is likely to bite them in the ass if an opposing army with advanced weaponry decides to say, employ a chemical attack. The Legion's only chance is if future generations discarded some of Caesar's beliefs before that happened.

That's my opinion, anyway.

As for independent Vegas, it is not actually left to its own devices. It's Vegas overseen by the Courier; which can vary wildly depending on their character and decisions throughout the game. In the long term that society has the same issues of potentially not surviving its founder. However, it also has the potential to be more beneficent than other options in the short term.

Of course none of the options are a magic bullet in the long run; which is what I like about how factions were handled in FNV.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:10 .