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[King KvT I]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

King KvT wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

I just thought does the legion control Europe?

As far as I'm aware, Caesar's Legion only rules over New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and most of Utah.

And I doubt that Fallout would leave the US, seeing as the 1950's America aspect is essentially the main theme of the game. Although I would like to at least get a mention of what's gone on outside the US, even if it was just into Canada or Mexico.

They've definitely considered it in the past, by their own admission, so it's not outrageous. My bigger concern is how they'd handle the inevitable proliferation of energy weapons and power armor. In the canon, those were cutting-edge/emerging technologies based in North America- how much do you want to bet that we'd suddenly find that Europe (or China, or anywhere else) has plenty of them as well? Suddenly 'experimental' or 'captured/stolen' samples will be everywhere. Either that, or stylistic changes which will (probably) lose a lot of that Old World style.

Not saying you couldn't make a fun game out of it (Fallout in China would be interesting in a lot of ways), but I'd be concerned about how they handle it.

I know what you mean. 

One of the cancelled Fallout games, Fallout Extreme I believe, was set first in America and then moved the player on to Canada, then Russia, Mongolia and China, but without making it a linear game, which would be really the only way for that sort of story to happen, they'd have to remove the whole freeroam element. 

They could have parts of Canada in the game, if they wanted to focus on the Enclave Remnants in the midwest, but I doubt that'd happen in this game, so for the forseeable future we'll be in America, which is fair enough because we haven't exactly explored all of it yet.

[Dean_the_Young]

As for the 'who to side with'... it depends on the character, but if you're looking to make the best impact on the world as a whole I'd say House or NCR depending on if you prioritize a return of technology or a return of liberal civilization.

The Legion and Independent Vegas, I've never really bought into as viable solutions or long-term improvements.

The Legion just doesn't have enough to sell it- it's a flawed attempt to re-invent the man, an unfeasible goal in and of itself, that is so technophobic that the only chance for a civilization that can escape the earth is one so far departed from the Legion that it might as well not be called it. It doesn't provide any unique benefits of a civilization, and as it is it's far more prone to sabotaging and destroying other potential societies than establishing a viable one of its own.

Independent Vegas, on the other hand, doesn't have the malevolence... but it doesn't have a direction either. It just exists, without unity or direction, spinning its wheels in Mohave dust. It's all about 'freedom' and 'independence'... but that just means that the medium fish are the bosses of a smaller pond, where the Families or local power brokers can abuse/exploit their own, and eventually come into conflict and struggle with eachother. What is Independent Vegas going to do, what is it going to further or be a part of? How does its existence help the rest of the world, besides being a tax on the mathematically challenged? The best I can say is 'the model of an independent city state'... but I don't think that's a desirable long-term goal, and I don't think it will particularly last.


So, House and NCR. Warts and all, they contribute to a return of something the Wasteland needs- civil society, and technological innovation/rebirth.

House is obviously technology- instead of just scavenging the bones of the old world until nothing is left, he's a ticket to restarting production and improvement in its own right. Not just recovering, but reusing and reproducing technologies that could benefit the rest of the world. And if space colonization really is made possible... House could be the first, best chance to ensure the survival of the Human race off the planet, which should be a long-term goal of any faction.

The NCR isn't quite so long-sighted, but it could get there eventually. More importantly, though, the expansion to Vegas would shore up and expand the culture and reach of the most successful and beneficial post-war civilization we've seen to date- one that, for all its flaws of corruption and overt expansionism, carries with it a conscience, idealism, and organization that can not only sustain, but improve itself. The NCR is the best bet for expanding rules-based civilization and restoring conventional idealistic-liberalism to the post-apocalypse, and those are ideas that can have a tremendous benefit for mankind- easily as much social benefit as House's technology. For all the NCR's flaws, none of them really stand out as atrocious or unique to itself- corruption is going to be the struggle of all established societies.

[Seagloom]

That is by far the most articulate NV faction breakdown I've read to date; and I'm not just writing that because I agree with two-thirds of it. XD

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]King KvT wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]King KvT wrote...

[quote]Liamv2 wrote...

I just thought does the legion control Europe?[/quote]

As far as I'm aware, Caesar's Legion only rules over New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and most of Utah.

And I doubt that Fallout would leave the US, seeing as the 1950's America aspect is essentially the main theme of the game. Although I would like to at least get a mention of what's gone on outside the US, even if it was just into Canada or Mexico.

[/quote]They've definitely considered it in the past, by their own admission, so it's not outrageous. My bigger concern is how they'd handle the inevitable proliferation of energy weapons and power armor. In the canon, those were cutting-edge/emerging technologies based in North America- how much do you want to bet that we'd suddenly find that Europe (or China, or anywhere else) has plenty of them as well? Suddenly 'experimental' or 'captured/stolen' samples will be everywhere. Either that, or stylistic changes which will (probably) lose a lot of that Old World style.

Not saying you couldn't make a fun game out of it (Fallout in China would be interesting in a lot of ways), but I'd be concerned about how they handle it.

[/quote]

I know what you mean. 

[/quote]All things considered, China would probably be easy enough
to justify- since there was a huge American invasion underway at the
time, and there are references in Old World Blues to the US capturing Chinese cities, it wouldn't be much to have 'cheap Chinese knockoffs' along with remnants of the American invasion force.

Which could actually make for some interesting remnants or descendant factions. Imagine a brutal occupation regime started by US army remnants lording over the Chinese civilians and refugees they press-ganged or enslaved to survive the fallout.

Of course, such a game would almost certainly never be sold in China...

[quote]
One of the cancelled Fallout games, Fallout Extreme I believe, was set first in America and then moved the player on to Canada, then Russia, Mongolia and China, but without making it a linear game, which would be really the only way for that sort of story to happen, they'd have to remove the whole freeroam element. [/quote]Van Burren, I believe, but indeed.

They could have parts of Canada in the game, if they wanted to focus on the Enclave Remnants in the midwest, but I doubt that'd happen in this game, so for the forseeable future we'll be in America, which is fair enough because we haven't exactly explored all of it yet.[/quote]I don't think you even need to focus on the Enclave- you could have Ronto, or just focus on the wilderness.

I imagine Canada would be a great place to establish or explore a more 'tribal'-dominated setting- shamanistic villages in the wilderness, hunting yao-gai and so on to survive. Little villages or shacks in the snow, with the occassional bunker or evidence of the Great War cataclysm and Canadian insurgency hidden in dead (or recovering) forests. Irradiated snow-ponds and lakes, where tribals are torn between the need for warm water and tolerating (or embracing?) the radiation.

Plus, super-giant yao-gai, as large as liberty prime, that wander the wilderness and mountains and serve as animalistic gods. 'The Bear that Ate the Moon' indeed.


Then you could have a few vaults, hidden in the wilderness after the American invasion. I can see two in particular- call it a pair of feuding vaults, which have been skirmishing ever since opening. The first was filled with Americans, but the experiment was on the nature of cultural propoganda and so they think they are Canadians. The second, a sister vault, was to be filled with American propoganda- this one was overrun by the Canadian Insurgency before the war, who saved as many Canadians as they could... but now they think that they are Americans.



And, out at edge of the wilderness, the power of the city-state of Ronto and its attempts to expand its influence occupy little villages or towns across the area which drive the conflict with the tribals.




Or so it could be. Personally, I think New Orleans would be a great opportunity in its own right. (See story corner.)

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 novembre 2013 - 03:50 .

[CroGamer002]

Seagloom wrote...

That is by far the most articulate NV faction breakdown I've read to date; and I'm not just writing that because I agree with two-thirds of it. XD

What's the 1/3 you don't agree with?


Also, I like his breakdown as well.

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I sided with Ashur.

Same, Wehrner is an opportunist and he's out for riches and glory like most of the moronsin the wasteland. I just wish the Pitt had been longer, it had a lot of promise. 

I wish the Pitt was longer, too. I tend to leave it for last, given the implications of both endings; I don't see my LW simply leaving the Pitt to it's own devices. I agree that Wernher certainly seemed to be trying to usurp Ashur's position as the Lord of the Pitt.

What about the decision with Harold - did you euthanize Harold, spread his growth, or limit his growth to the Oasis? Spreading him out seemed to potentially offer the chance to restore the Capital Wasteland.

[Jaison1986]

I sided with Werhner. I didn't liked him one bit, but he seemed like the lesser evil to me.

I spreaded Harold seeds into the Wasteland (you can actually notice green bushes appearing after you do that) I feel really bad about Harold, but this an chance the Capital Wasteland will never get again.

[Seagloom]

@Mesina2

I disagree with him on House. While House may be able to push technology forward and improve on creature comforts, I think he's too cold, calculating, and hidebound in other respects. House cares more about pursuing his idealized version of reality than what's necessarily best for people.

His hands off policy is a double-edged sword in that you can get away with anything under his watch as long as it doesn't disrupt his carefully crafted order. In short, he's business-minded without being people oriented. While that may lead to societal elevation in a one respect, I think it may lead to death in another. Technology isn't an answer to everything, and he won't always be around to force order upon his demesne.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 04:26 .

[CroGamer002]

@Seagloom

So all he needs is a good heir, then.

[stonbw1]

I have a general question, though: What would we expect to see differently in a next gen Fallout 4? Sure, it'll be prettier, but I can't fathom a bigger world than FO3 or Skyrim. I also can't fathom more/longer missions than either of those two, since you could easily clock 100 hrs + with each. I loved FO3, but even I'll admit that after 100 hrs and exploring 100 miles of territory, I'm about ready for a change of game..

[CroGamer002]

stonbw1 wrote...

I have a general question, though: What would we expect to see differently in a next gen Fallout 4? Sure, it'll be prettier, but I can't fathom a bigger world than FO3 or Skyrim. I also can't fathom more/longer missions than either of those two, since you could easily clock 100 hrs + with each. I loved FO3, but even I'll admit that after 100 hrs and exploring 100 miles of territory, I'm about ready for a change of game..

Simple.

Explore different things in 100+ hours in different are large around 100 kilometer's in a diffrent way.

[Addai]

Seagloom wrote...

@Mesina2

I disagree with him on House. While House may be able to push technology forward and improve on creature comforts, I think he's too cold, calculating, and hidebound in other respects. House cares more about pursuing his idealized version of reality than what's necessarily best for people.

His hands off policy is a double-edged sword in that you can get away with anything under his watch as long as it doesn't disrupt his carefully crafted order. In short, he's business-minded without being people oriented. While that may lead to societal elevation in a one respect, I think it may lead to death in another. Technology isn't an answer to everything, and he won't always be around to force order upon his demesne.

That's why he needs a good #2.

My "canon" game is a House game.  I was going to do indy, but roleplay-wise decided that my Courier would be rattled by her experiences in Lonesome Road and recognize she can screw things up pretty badly.  He saved Vegas from the bombs, she destroyed an entire community even if inadvertently.  House giving her a lot of latitude means she can still do a lot for the people of the Mojave, and keep an eye on him too.

[happy_daiz]

Each time I start a new FO:NV playthrough, I think I'm going to choose different paths, and side with someone else in the end. It never shakes out that way. I always lead Yes Man and Mr. House on, then ultimately side with NCR. Rex gets a new brain (usually courtesy of the Legion), ED-E gets new armor, and none of the humanoid companions get the best outcomes, because I forgot something along the way.
I just started a new run last night, after talking about this yesterday.

[Seagloom]

Addai67 wrote...

That's why he needs a good #2.

My "canon" game is a House game.  I was going to do indy, but roleplay-wise decided that my Courier would be rattled by her experiences in Lonesome Road and recognize she can screw things up pretty badly.  He saved Vegas from the bombs, she destroyed an entire community even if inadvertently.  House giving her a lot of latitude means she can still do a lot for the people of the Mojave, and keep an eye on him too.

Well that and the whole being shackled to a tube thing. >.>

I don't have a canon game yet. I've finished NV exactly once. In that game I played a mercenary minded thrillseeker who initially sided with House but turned on him after the Lonesome Road. That was a turning point for her too. After her experiences with Elijah, Joshua, the Think Tank, and finally, Ulysses, she came to see danger in any one person or group holding too much power and reluctantly turned on House. The DLC story arc basically shaped who she became.

It was a very tough moment for me as a player. I stood in front of the Lucky 38 for almost 30 minutes wondering if I really wanted to kill House. Once I did, it was like ripping off a scab. I did it quickly to get it over with. It still stung and I felt a nagging guilt for the rest of that playthrough. Probably why I left so many sidequests unfinished. There were entire areas I never even saw. After that I wanted to finish ASAP. Still, I felt it was true to what she would've done. I went in playing her as greedy and somewhat ruthless; but by the end she was a real deal anarchist.

happy_daiz wrote...

Each time I start a new FO:NV playthrough, I think I'm going to choose different paths, and side with someone else in the end. It never shakes out that way. I always lead Yes Man and Mr. House on, then ultimately side with NCR. Rex gets a new brain (usually courtesy of the Legion), ED-E gets new armor, and none of the humanoid companions get the best outcomes, because I forgot something along the way.
I just started a new run last night, after talking about this yesterday.

Wish I could make it that far on a regular basis. I restarted a bunch of times only to peter out once I reach Vegas. >.< Right now I'm playing something of a cross between a scientist and socialite with sky high intelligence and a focus on energy weapons. Trying something very different from what I usually do in Fallout games. It'll be interesting to see who she ends up supporting if I can make it that far again, finally. Eh, probably not Legion... XD

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 05:32 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Seagloom wrote...

@Mesina2

I disagree with him on House. While House may be able to push technology forward and improve on creature comforts, I think he's too cold, calculating, and hidebound in other respects. House cares more about pursuing his idealized version of reality than what's necessarily best for people.

His hands off policy is a double-edged sword in that you can get away with anything under his watch as long as it doesn't disrupt his carefully crafted order. In short, he's business-minded without being people oriented. While that may lead to societal elevation in a one respect, I think it may lead to death in another. Technology isn't an answer to everything, and he won't always be around to force order upon his demesne.

Out of curiosity, where do you perceive a disagreement? 

The greater good benefits I see from House are a result of a return and advancement of technology and economy, which could have profound implications for redeveloping human societies as a whole. Not from House being a people-person, which I readily give to the NCR, but simply as a consequence of restarting progress in the wasteland + the various technologies in the setting that could, if harnessed and developed properly, restore society. Not just in Vegas, but with everyone who trades with it, and trades with them.

What you mention, about abuses and death, about getting away with anything that doesn't challenge the ruler? That risk applies in every scenario regardless, especially independent Vegas.

[Dean_the_Young]

happy_daiz wrote...

Each time I start a new FO:NV playthrough, I think I'm going to choose different paths, and side with someone else in the end. It never shakes out that way. I always lead Yes Man and Mr. House on, then ultimately side with NCR. Rex gets a new brain (usually courtesy of the Legion), ED-E gets new armor, and none of the humanoid companions get the best outcomes, because I forgot something along the way.
I just started a new run last night, after talking about this yesterday.

You want fun? Try this playthrough-

Kill everyone, and everything. No factionizing. No negotiating. Just fight, kill, and run away when necessary. The only characters you interact with are EDI, Yes Man, and the Gun Runners securitron. You win when, at the end of the game, not a single named character is left alive.


Once you get past the shame of the NCR trying to shame you into improving your actions, it's a surprisingly fun game.

[happy_daiz]

Seagloom wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

Each time I start a new FO:NV playthrough, I think I'm going to choose different paths, and side with someone else in the end. It never shakes out that way. I always lead Yes Man and Mr. House on, then ultimately side with NCR. Rex gets a new brain (usually courtesy of the Legion), ED-E gets new armor, and none of the humanoid companions get the best outcomes, because I forgot something along the way.
I just started a new run last night, after talking about this yesterday.

Wish I could make it that far on a regular basis. I restarted a bunch of times only to peter out once I reach Vegas. >.< Right now I'm playing something of a cross between a scientist and socialite with sky high intelligence and a focus on energy weapons. Trying something very different from what I usually do in Fallout games. It'll be interesting to see who she ends up supporting if I can make it that far again, finally. Eh, probably not Legion... XD

I might have over-stated that. I have only actually completed the game once. Usually when I start realizing that I've mucked up a follower's outcome, I get depressed and stop. It always seems to be just about the same place in the MQ. You'd think by now that I'd have it all figured out, but I keep blundering. I even have a FO:NV guide book to follow, but do I use it? Nope. I'm not even sure where it is, tbh.

When I started over last night, I considered loading an old save, but anytime I try that, I can't remember what I've done already, and I just can't seem to get in sync with it. So I start over, play for a while, get depressed or distracted, then rinse and repeat some time later.

I'm hoping that this time, I'll stick with it, do everything right, and actually attempt a different ending.

I normally go with high Intelligence (start with Medicine, Science, and Charisma as tagged skills), but this time, I focused on Agility and Perception (Repair, Guns, and Science as tagged skills). I picked up ED-E while I was only level 4, and Boone by level 5, so I'm constantly thrown off by red marks on the compass, which are actually WAY in the distance.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You want fun? Try this playthrough-

Kill everyone, and everything. No factionizing. No negotiating. Just fight, kill, and run away when necessary. The only characters you interact with are EDI, Yes Man, and the Gun Runners securitron. You win when, at the end of the game, not a single named character is left alive.

Once you get past the shame of the NCR trying to shame you into improving your actions, it's a surprisingly fun game.

There's no way this uber-annoyingly-paragon Messiah could do that!  I have a hard time even going Neutral, let alone going down that path. It's an intriguing idea, I'll give you that, but wow. Cold-blooded!

Modifié par happy_daiz, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:08 .

[King KvT I]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

Each time I start a new FO:NV playthrough, I think I'm going to choose different paths, and side with someone else in the end. It never shakes out that way. I always lead Yes Man and Mr. House on, then ultimately side with NCR. Rex gets a new brain (usually courtesy of the Legion), ED-E gets new armor, and none of the humanoid companions get the best outcomes, because I forgot something along the way.
I just started a new run last night, after talking about this yesterday.

You want fun? Try this playthrough-

Kill everyone, and everything. No factionizing. No negotiating. Just fight, kill, and run away when necessary. The only characters you interact with are EDI, Yes Man, and the Gun Runners securitron. You win when, at the end of the game, not a single named character is left alive.


Once you get past the shame of the NCR trying to shame you into improving your actions, it's a surprisingly fun game.

Wow, that's... that's quite something.

An interesting concept, especially using an Anti-Material Rifle with Explosive rounds. Or a lot of mini-nukes.

[Seagloom]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Out of curiosity, where do you perceive a disagreement? 

The greater good benefits I see from House are a result of a return and advancement of technology and economy, which could have profound implications for redeveloping human societies as a whole. Not from House being a people-person, which I readily give to the NCR, but simply as a consequence of restarting progress in the wasteland + the various technologies in the setting that could, if harnessed and developed properly, restore society. Not just in Vegas, but with everyone who trades with it, and trades with them.

What you mention, about abuses and death, about getting away with anything that doesn't challenge the ruler? That risk applies in every scenario regardless, especially independent Vegas.

Agreed. Which is one of several reasons I do not see any of the options as perfectly ideal.

I think the cause of disagreement was a misinterpretation of your post. You stated "who will make the best impact on the world as a whole". Given the available options, I agree. For some reason my mind initially processed it as 'who will make the best impact on the world as a whole in an ideal scenario'; which the post apocalyptic world of Fallout is very clearly not. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie] I'm not sure why my brain went in that direction, but there you go.

My impression of House is that he will focus on advancements that directly further personal goals before any consideration for those in his charge. While certain technologies will undoubtably benefit his people as a serendipitous byproduct; House is unlikely to intentionally pursue them as a goal.

I guess what I'm getting at is House is obviously no humanist. His motives, while possibly leading to immense technological benefits, will do little to address any social or moral decay in the populace. He seems content to let that all play out as long as the superficial appearance of his society fits his tastes. The results of House's influence are fairly evident when comparing the Strip to Freeside, and I'm not sure supporting someone who allows for that sort of dichotomy is a worthwhile trade for technological advancement.

Best case scenario, I think House could bring humanity into a dystopia that seems like a utopia until it is closely examined.

So yeah, in an ideal scenario not so good. In the twisted, ruined world of the Fallout universe? It probably doesn't get much better. I guess I agree with your entire post in hindsight. Talk about a reading comprehension fail.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:28 .

[LobselVith8]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I sided with Werhner. I didn't liked him one bit, but he seemed like the lesser evil to me.

I spreaded Harold seeds into the Wasteland (you can actually notice green bushes appearing after you do that) I feel really bad about Harold, but this an chance the Capital Wasteland will never get again.

The decision is very gray for me, given how Werhner seems to simply fill the power vacuum once Ashur is gone. Ashur wants to eradicate radiation (in a post-apocalyptic world, with radiation all over the west coast) and trying to industrialize the west coast with his mill, since they haven't had the same progress as their west coast counterparts. His raiders are simply repugnant, though, and I loathe the enslavement of the people. However, Werhner doesn't inspire much confidence in me as a better alternative than Ashur.

I'm thinking about spreading Harold's influence across the Capital Wasteland in my new run (which I'll get back to after Skyrim). I do feel a lot of sympathy for Harold's plight, but this is an opportunity that the Capital Wasteland will likely never have again.

I'm also trying to run across Uncle Leo for a second encounter, but I never see him again. I wonder if it's tied to the progress if the MQ.

[Mr.House]

Mesina2 wrote...

@Seagloom

So all he needs is a good heir, then.

Which pretty much happens if you help him with good karma. Thoguh I do agree with Seagloom on some things, House is cold and he does have a complex because of the fact that by saving Vegas he now see's himself as it's savior thus ruler and does desire it's control. I can understand why he's like that, but it is his flaw.

[Seagloom]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Once you get past the shame of the NCR trying to shame you into improving your actions, it's a surprisingly fun game.

I can get past that shame very easily. Last aborted playthrough I nuked the NCR at Helios One. Then I got a hit squad on me. The ranger was all 'you have three days!' and I was all, nuh uh, right now! So I punched her in the face a few times. By the time she reacted, I killed her. Took out that whole squad afterward. 'Twas fun. Maybe I'll try that route sometime for the lulz.

happy_daiz wrote...

I might have over-stated that. I have only actually completed the game once. Usually when I start realizing that I've mucked up a follower's outcome, I get depressed and stop. It always seems to be just about the same place in the MQ. You'd think by now that I'd have it all figured out, but I keep blundering. I even have a FO:NV guide book to follow, but do I use it? Nope. I'm not even sure where it is, tbh.

When I started over last night, I considered loading an old save, but anytime I try that, I can't remember what I've done already, and I just can't seem to get in sync with it. So I start over, play for a while, get depressed or distracted, then rinse and repeat some time later.

I'm hoping that this time, I'll stick with it, do everything right, and actually attempt a different ending.

I normally go with high Intelligence (start with Medicine, Science, and Charisma as tagged skills), but this time, I focused on Agility and Perception (Repair, Guns, and Science as tagged skills). I picked up ED-E while I was only level 4, and Boone by level 5, so I'm constantly thrown off by red marks on the compass, which are actually WAY in the distance.

I hear that. Little mistakes have been the cause of restarts for me too. I'll restart over things as minor as realizing I allocated my SPECIAL incorrectly. You should check out the wiki for companions. Some like Veronica are bugged to hell. I play on PC so I patch the heck out of whatever I can. Even then it can be tricky sometimes. Can't imagine doing it on console.

I usually go with unarmed, sneak, and speech to start. Although my sole complete character favored guns. This go around I went with energy weapons, science, and speech to start. Maxed intelligence at 10 and dropped strength to 2. XD I know it's not optimal, but I wanted to do something crazy different so I didn't carefully plan my build. I take my sweet time, tho'. By the time I get Boone I'm usually level 7 or 8. Maybe I'll keep him around this time. Dunno. Last time I went with ED-E and Cass through the whole shebang. I only had Rex long enough to get him a brain, and Boone until Cass replaced him.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 novembre 2013 - 07:06 .

[Mr.House]

You should ALWAYS make loads of save files so that does not happen

[Seagloom]

What and be logical? Hell no! XD

[Addai]

House is a technocratic oligarch, but the fact that his prowess benefited people seems obvious to me. He saved Vegas from nuclear destruction. As far as we know, he's the only one in the country who did anything close to that. It's been a while, but I think I recall him saying that he tried to warn others, too. He's not a humanitarian, but the game does a good job of showing that just having humanitarian ideals can backfire in a big way. Caesar became Caesar because of the Followers' do-gooder idealism. Magnificent bastards are still bastards, but they get things done that others can't.

As for concentration of power, the Courier knowing his secret and having access to his inner sanctum means he's got a vulnerability and she can always exploit that. He's still dangerous but there is a check on him. He even seems to realize he needs a capable person on the outside, so they make a good team.