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The Geth or Qurian Choice, Opinions


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#126
CronoDragoon

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The Geth know that this is only temporary. 

Besides, what would you have the Geth do?


That what is only temporary?

The geth are in between a rock and a hard place, no doubt, but are we really going to say self-interest justifies anything? Well, perhaps you would as you are a very practical person.

#127
MassivelyEffective0730

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It did.


Indeed. So why does this absolve the geth, again?


It doesn't. But why are the Geth the problem here? They're not the ones seeking war.

#128
DeinonSlayer

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Steelcan wrote...

*insert my standard pro-quarian view*

*insult to geth likely involving a comparison to household appliances*

*drool over Space Morrigan*

Way to cut to the chase. :D

#129
CronoDragoon

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Steelcan wrote...
They could you know leave.... Turn tail and run with their ships.  See how they like the nomadic lifestyle....  Leave geth on the ground and some ships to slow the quarians but then just flee like they made the quarians do.

Or they can just lie down and accept their fate.  Doesn't matter to me really.


To be fair to the geth, I think it's explicitly mentioned that pre-submission to the Reapers, they were trapped and were not being allowed to escape. Post-Reaper, they don't have any choice as they no longer control their actions.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:08 .


#130
Steelcan

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They blew up the geth Dyson sphere. This is why the geth want the Reaper upgrades, because their original racial dream turned out to be a doomed nightmare.


And? The Geth still had the biggest navy and amy in the galaxy. Their war assets trump any other race before the final battle.

ummmm except when they didn't, like for the krogan, or Alliance, or quarians....


I'd imagine the alliance has a fairly moderate sized Navy, with a small ground-force military. We really aren't all that large of a military power. The Krogan have no Navy. The Quarians have the largest fleet in the galaxy, but it isn't necessarily a naval fleet. 

The Turians have the large Navy, and the strong Army.

their numbers were all higher, and in the end thats all that mattered


I don't base arbitrarily assigned numbers in the War Assets as indicative of the actual strength, size, or capability of anything. If that were the case, the Normandy is more powerful by itself than an entire alliance fleet.

I'd bet that krogan are a more effective ground force than them, the quarians are better with tech, and the turians and asari  can match their firepower.

#131
Steelcan

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
They could you know leave.... Turn tail and run with their ships.  See how they like the nomadic lifestyle....  Leave geth on the ground and some ships to slow the quarians but then just flee like they made the quarians do.

Or they can just lie down and accept their fate.  Doesn't matter to me really.


To be fair to the geth, I think it's explicitly mentioned that pre-submission to the Reapers, they were trapped and were not being allowed to escape. Post-Reaper, they don't have any choice as they no longer control their actions.

not my problem.  Cosmic imperative and allB)

Modifié par Steelcan, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:09 .


#132
RatThing

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The second time, the Geth were faced with a massive crisis. They could be destroyed by their creators who held a relative technological advantage over them, with no hope of help from an unsympathetic and antagonistic galaxy at large, or they could submit themselves to the Reapers in the hope of surviving. 
 


Exactly what I said, just in different words. The only thing I'd add is that there's no guarantee that this will not happen again with the difference that they will be threatened by the Reapers itself. So don't give me this crap about ignorance, there has been no other faction that worked more and better with the Reapers.

Modifié par RatThing, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:11 .


#133
MassivelyEffective0730

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CronoDragoon wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The Geth know that this is only temporary. 

Besides, what would you have the Geth do?


That what is only temporary?

The geth are in between a rock and a hard place, no doubt, but are we really going to say self-interest justifies anything? Well, perhaps you would as you are a very practical person.


That the respite from the Reapers is temporary. They hold no illusion that they will not be spared by them, but they're trying to delay the inevitable as much as they can.

Yes. Self-interest is all the Geth have. What would you do if all your worst enemy attacked you, while everyone else didn't care about you and antagonized you, and are too busy fighting the invaders of their town, with said invaders offering to spare you if you acted as their slave long enough to be the last ones standing until the invaders turned on you?

#134
Ryzaki

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The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
I'll have to remember not to choose it then.

Funny thing is, my Shepard wasn't even nice to everyone on his crew. I played him as being kind of paranoid, so he came off as hostile and defensive towards Liara. Someday, I'm going to play my EvilShep who uses the ninjamance to his advantage - tells Liara honestly that he's not interested, and when she seems to believe they're in a romance anyway, he'll just go along with it. I'll have him think Liara chased down his body to have him resurrected because he's really that good at manipulating people.


Sadly.

Yeah my poor ME1 renedouche to everyone that wasn't named Garrus got a personality transplant in ME2. :( It just got worse in ME3.

LOL manipulative Shep ftw :P

CronoDragoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Attempted genocide does have a way of changing one's perspective, doesn't it?


In this case, making the geth stupid enough to believe running to the Reapers would save them.


To be fair that's what happens when geth lose large numbers. Their intelligence comes from how many of them there are. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

#135
Steelcan

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So who else killed the geth to placate their insatiable lust for genocide and murdering helpless synthetics?


Cause I know I did.

#136
Ryzaki

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Steelcan wrote...

So who else killed the geth to placate their insatiable lust for genocide and murdering helpless synthetics?


Cause I know I did.


XD

I simply let the Quarians kill themselves as a space darwin award. They certainly earned it. :wizard:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:20 .


#137
MassivelyEffective0730

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Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
They blew up the geth Dyson sphere. This is why the geth want the Reaper upgrades, because their original racial dream turned out to be a doomed nightmare.


And? The Geth still had the biggest navy and amy in the galaxy. Their war assets trump any other race before the final battle.

ummmm except when they didn't, like for the krogan, or Alliance, or quarians....


I'd imagine the alliance has a fairly moderate sized Navy, with a small ground-force military. We really aren't all that large of a military power. The Krogan have no Navy. The Quarians have the largest fleet in the galaxy, but it isn't necessarily a naval fleet. 

The Turians have the large Navy, and the strong Army.

their numbers were all higher, and in the end thats all that mattered


I don't base arbitrarily assigned numbers in the War Assets as indicative of the actual strength, size, or capability of anything. If that were the case, the Normandy is more powerful by itself than an entire alliance fleet.

I'd bet that krogan are a more effective ground force than them, the quarians are better with tech, and the turians and asari  can match their firepower.


It is stated that the Geth are the best equipped and most adaptable ground force in the galaxy. I disagree with the ultimate utility of the Krogan being more than zerg rush combatants. The Quarians are strong with tech, but the Geth are no pushover. The Turians, pre-war yes, and during the war, I'd still say it was an edge for the Turians. But I would not put the Asari Navy against the Geth. Look at dreadnought numbers. The Geth have nearly as many as the Turians. The Asari only have 60% of the number as the Turians. Plus, all Geth constructs have a military utility. They are capable of devoting themselves 100% to the fight 100% of the time. The only limitations for the Geth are raw resources and time.

#138
CronoDragoon

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Ryzaki wrote...

To be fair that's what happens when geth lose large numbers. Their intelligence comes from how many of them there are. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.


That's largely why I'm totally fine with the geth becoming individualized in ME3. I think the hive-mind turned out to be a failure, at least in this case. The Reaper code fixed some important issues with the geth while also protecting them against Reaper influence (and likely "hacking" on a larger scale).

#139
MassivelyEffective0730

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RatThing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
The second time, the Geth were faced with a massive crisis. They could be destroyed by their creators who held a relative technological advantage over them, with no hope of help from an unsympathetic and antagonistic galaxy at large, or they could submit themselves to the Reapers in the hope of surviving. 
 


Exactly what I said, just in different words. The only thing I'd add is that there's no guarantee that this will not happen again with the difference that they will be threatened by the Reapers itself. So don't give me this crap about ignorance, there has been no other faction that worked more and better with the Reapers.


I don't know what the hell you' just said... :mellow:

#140
Steelcan

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...


It is stated that the Geth are the best equipped and most adaptable ground force in the galaxy. I disagree with the ultimate utility of the Krogan being more than zerg rush combatants. The Quarians are strong with tech, but the Geth are no pushover. The Turians, pre-war yes, and during the war, I'd still say it was an edge for the Turians. But I would not put the Asari Navy against the Geth. Look at dreadnought numbers. The Geth have nearly as many as the Turians. The Asari only have 60% of the number as the Turians. Plus, all Geth constructs have a military utility. They are capable of devoting themselves 100% to the fight 100% of the time. The only limitations for the Geth are raw resources and time.

Better equipped perhaps, but I'd rather a ton of krogan warlords than a ton of geth.  They are just man for man stronger.

The quarians proved their technological superiority when they turned the geth into blind hulks floating in space. 

Oh I agree that the asari don't have the same numbers, but the Destiny Ascension was impressive regardless.  Well before it exploded.

#141
Cobalt2113

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Yes. Self-interest is all the Geth have. What would you do if all your worst enemy attacked you, while everyone else didn't care about you and antagonized you, and are too busy fighting the invaders of their town, with said invaders offering to spare you if you acted as their slave long enough to be the last ones standing until the invaders turned on you?


That is some convoluted logic right there. So if my choices were...

A) Get killed by Qaurians
B) Kill Quarians then get killed by Reapers
C) Get the hell out of dodge.

I would probably pick C, and definitely not B.

#142
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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

RatThing wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
The second time, the Geth were faced with a massive crisis. They could be destroyed by their creators who held a relative technological advantage over them, with no hope of help from an unsympathetic and antagonistic galaxy at large, or they could submit themselves to the Reapers in the hope of surviving. 
 


Exactly what I said, just in different words. The only thing I'd add is that there's no guarantee that this will not happen again with the difference that they will be threatened by the Reapers itself. So don't give me this crap about ignorance, there has been no other faction that worked more and better with the Reapers.


I don't know what the hell you' just said... :mellow:


I think he said...ehh...yeah me neither.

#143
Ryzaki

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

To be fair that's what happens when geth lose large numbers. Their intelligence comes from how many of them there are. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.


That's largely why I'm totally fine with the geth becoming individualized in ME3. I think the hive-mind turned out to be a failure, at least in this case. The Reaper code fixed some important issues with the geth while also protecting them against Reaper influence (and likely "hacking" on a larger scale).


Pretty sure the only reason the Reaper was able to take over the Geth was because they allowed the Reaper to take over. And by the time they realized they didn't want this it was far too late to back out. So I doubt they could've simply been all hacked (at least blatantly the only reasons the Heretics even get close is because the normal geth trusted them enough to let them into their mainframe. They wouldn't do such with the Reapers).

But yeah the Reaper code makes that a complete non issue.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:27 .


#144
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Steelcan wrote...

So who else killed the geth to placate their insatiable lust for genocide and murdering helpless synthetics?


Cause I know I did.


If I had to choose,I certainly would have. Organics always come first in my view.

#145
RatThing

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Steelcan wrote...

So who else killed the geth to placate their insatiable lust for genocide and murdering helpless synthetics?


Cause I know I did.


I haven't killed anything, I disabled dangerous technology.

#146
CronoDragoon

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Ryzaki wrote...

Pretty sure the only reason the Reaper was able to take over the Geth was because they allowed the Reaper to take over. And by the time they realized they didn't want this it was far too late to back out. So I doubt they could've simply been all hacked (at least blatantly the only reasons the Heretics even get close is because the normal geth trusted them enough to let them into their mainframe. They wouldn't do such with the Reapers).

But yeah the Reaper code makes that a complete non issue.


Well, considering the Reapers can "hack" organic minds with a near-100% or 100% success rate (indoctrination) I don't see why they couldn't dominate synthetic minds with equal or greater ease. The geth, after all, are just mass collections of VI.

#147
Ryzaki

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CronoDragoon wrote...
Well, considering the Reapers can "hack" organic minds with a near-100% or 100% success rate (indoctrination) I don't see why they couldn't dominate synthetic minds with equal or greater ease. The geth, after all, are just mass collections of VI.


They don't hack a organics mind instantly and because of the way the Geth operate hacking one of them means you have to hack all of them because they're networked. Otherwise it's temproary because the other Geth can fix it. It's pretty much indoctrinating a horde of people at one time and if one of them isn't indoctrinated at the same rate (which is highly likely) they can reverse what you did to the others. It's time consuming and impratical (thus why the heretics needed to introduce the virius to the mainframe where it would hit all the Geth at once).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:52 .


#148
CronoDragoon

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Ryzaki wrote...

They don't hack a organics mind instantly and because of the way the Geth operate hacking one of them means you have to hack all of them. Otherwise it's temproary because the other Geth can fix it.


It's certainly possible to hack an organic mind instantly, ie Anderson at the end of ME3.

As for the geth, all they'd need to do is infect the main server hub. As per Legion's surprise at learning the heretics had spy runtimes, it's not improbable that this would go undetected and eventually infect all the mobile platforms.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:53 .


#149
Ryzaki

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

They don't hack a organics mind instantly and because of the way the Geth operate hacking one of them means you have to hack all of them. Otherwise it's temproary because the other Geth can fix it.


It's certainly possible to hack an organic mind instantly, ie Anderson at the end of ME3.

As for the geth, all they'd need to do is infect the main server hub.


Anderson wasn't hacked. (Not to mention we don't even know what that ability TIM pulled out of his ass in the last 10 minutes was). For all we know it was a stasis field on Anderson. TIM clearly couldn't shut Anderson up or make him think he was right (lol I put write. brainfart). He simply forcibly held him still and had Shep shoot him. (Not to mention renegade Shep fights it off to shoot TIM).

Assuming they'd let the Reapers get into their main server hub. Again the only reason the heretics got that far was because the normal Geth trusted them. They will not trust the reapers (until they allow said Reaper to rewrite them which is what happened in game).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:54 .


#150
CronoDragoon

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It's not an issue of trust. Legion (and by extension all non-heretic geth) were unable to detect abnormal runtimes in their own servers until they went to the heretic ship and saw them.

Anderson immediately lost control of his own body due to TIM, and anything TIM did was based off of Reaper indoctrination. But this argument isn't necessary for the geth because, again, you don't need to hack them instantly.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:55 .