293 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...
You knew damn well what would happen if that code was uploaded

Yeah I did. That's why Tali told them to stop firing.

Not my fault ****es don't listen.

They jumped in front of the speeding train when someone was yelling STOP.

♪♪♪ Not my fault not my problem ♪♪♪

I mean the very fact that the war hinges on the Quarians stopping their attack tells me exactly where the problem lay.

If the Quarians wanna blame someone for their deaths they'd be more accurate blaming Gerrel.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 novembre 2013 - 07:10 .

[Deathsaurer]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Geth turned to the Reapers because the Quarians had their backs to the wall - they were out of options. However, the Quarians themselves invaded because the Reaper invasion left them with no other options.

They did have another option but certian people wanted revenge instead. Look what that almost got them. The Geth didn't deserve this and neither did the Quarian civilians.

Think about it. A ship can't be used to transport soldiers and war materiel if its cargo hold is home to seven hundred civilians living in metal cubicles who need to stay within range of a liveship for daily shipments. The fleet has to stick together to keep everyone fed and protected at the same time, and per the codex, it takes days to traverse a relay. You can't hide like that. You need to offload them on a planet. They won't be any safer there (where is "safe" exactly?), but your ship can now aid the war effort.

The citadel itself is facing a food shortage. What Turian colony is going to be both willing and able to accept an influx of millions of refugees with finicky diets? What Turian colony isn't actively under attack by the Reapers and/or flooded by their own refugees? Where can the Quarian species survive, long-term, in the event that the fleet itself is destroyed before it can come back for them. They can't just dump them on some lifeless, airless rock as some have suggested. Rannoch is the only planet in the galaxy where a suit breach won't kill, and it's held by what is viewed as (at best) isolationists hostile to organic life of all stripes, or (at worst) a Reaper proxy. By the way, the Reapers are here NOW. What do?

This is entirely stupid reasoning. If the fleet gets destroyed they're already doomed anyways because it means the Reapers won. The civilians wanted to start a new colony instead of going to war with the Geth. Instead Han'Gerrel and Xen dragged them into a war with the Geth and were quite happen to gun down helpless Geth apparently without considering the idea that since the Geth had no one else to ask for help if the Reapers made an offer they'd go running to them. There are so many tactical blunders obviously motivated by personal biggotry it's not funny.

[KaiserShep]

Deathsaurer wrote...

knucks360 wrote...

Well at least someone gets that half of the Admiralty board ≠ rest of the Quarian race. If only Koris,and maybe Raan ran the show.

Is this hard to understand? We're told repeatedly the civilians want out and many of them were ready to make a break for it. Han'Gerrel is the reason they all got stuck in that quagmire. It was likely the same in the Morning War.

To be fair, whenever discussions like these come about, often it can boil down to blame being blanketed over the entire quarian race, rather than just its military leadership, despite what the game tells us.

[AlexMBrennan]

Is this hard to understand? We're told repeatedly the civilians want out and many of them were ready to make a break for it. Han'Gerrel is the reason they all got stuck in that quagmire. It was likely the same in the Morning War.

Well, you have to admire their discipline - not a single quarian civilian captain disobeyed his order to fight a clearly lost battle that would obviously result in the extinction of their entire species with no hope of achieving anything at all.

More importantly, that is only true for the initial engagement; there is nothing to stop dissenting quarian captains from a) having Gerrel court-martialled and stripped of his command or deserting this clearly demented admiral.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 19 novembre 2013 - 09:19 .

[Deathsaurer]

If they could have done A they would have. They were planning B but could be talked out of it by Zaal'Koris since they'd be helpless without the military fleet.

[Hazegurl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Xil
Good thing "absolutely refuse to back off" doesn't happen in-game then. The only way the Quarians die is if Shepard chooses to stab them in the back (through inaction, not in the literal sense as happens if you go the other way).

Of course Autoshep then turns around and blames them... disgusting, IMO.

I don't see how Shepard stabs them in the back. Shepard doesn't lie to them, cheat them, or force them to do anything they did not want to do. Gerrel is apparently the one in charge of their military and everyone placed their lives in his hands. Shepard did the jobs he went to Rannoch to do. Saved Quarians or an admiral if asked, shut down Geth server, and destroy the signal.

His job is over. Who is he to tell Legion that he can't upload the code to save his own people? Now Shepard is just butting in and being a hypocrite. He now wants Legion and the Geth to lay down die, well why don't the humans just lay down die and let the reapers kill them then? My Shepard doesn't have time to babysit a bunch of idiots who need their hand held just to keep from blowing up their own race. They make the Krogan look as smart as Salarians in comparison. They had to get infected with a disease that was not of their own choosing. The Quarians decided to blow themselves up in one day.   

[Hazegurl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It is rather lulzy on its surface.

"Shepard-Commander opposes the old machines. Shepard-Commander opposes the heretics. Cooperation furthers mutual goals."

Six months later...


"Shepard-Commander, this isn't what it looks like!"

Shepard: "We don't have to submit to the Reapers! We can beat them!"



Shepard: So.... this thing that was built by the Reapers will really work?  

[DeinonSlayer]

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy? Shepard's actions in the "Geth victory" outcome, IMO, are right down there with Walter White watching that girl choke to death on her own vomit, only magnified by scale.

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 novembre 2013 - 05:27 .

[Excella Gionne]

Kill the Quarians! PARTY AT MY APARTMENT EVERYONE!

[Hazegurl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy?

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Hm, no I won't take offense. Namely because you most likely have IRL reasons why you feel that way. In which case, I would find that creepy.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

My choice are the Quarians because they have nice boobs.

[Excella Gionne]

They have better bum bums than Asaris. And that's sayin' something...

[ImaginaryMatter]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

My choice are the Quarians because they have nice boobs.

What about 'dem hips?

[DeinonSlayer]

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy?

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Hm, no I won't take offense. Namely because you most likely have IRL reasons why you feel that way. In which case, I would find that creepy.

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

[Hazegurl]

StreetMagic wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Who is he to tell Legion that he can't upload the code to save his own people? Now Shepard is just butting in and being a hypocrite. He now wants Legion and the Geth to lay down die, well why don't the humans just lay down die and let the reapers kill them then? 

He doesn't have to "be" anyone. It's just an act of power/war/competition and force of will. Not about who has "rights". There is no right or wrong in this game world, or in this war. There is no objective force informing you of the "right" thing to do.

The Reapers consider themselves the objective force/god of this world, but that's coming to an end too. You're going to be given a choice to shoot them down soon enough, just like Legion. All you have to do is want to do it. Just like with Legion.

Having the "right" to do something comes down whoever is left standing in the end. That guy can say "Fug it. I was right, and had the rights.. because I'm the only one alive. They were wrong because they're dead." It's ugly and brutal, but it is what it is. There's no referee here to disapprove or pat you on the back.

You're right and I actually agree. Everyone is doing what they feel is best for their own race.  It's up to you to determine if the actions taken is the best for you. Simple as that. The way I see it. I get a win/win with both on my side. With one gone it's a win/lose. So I let Darwin sort it out. Who am I to tell Legion he can't save his own people when I'm scrambling to save my own? Who am I to save a bunch of people who are so hell bent on hulk smashing everything? The answer is, I'm the one who is deciding what I need on the battle field to save my own species. At the end of the day who do I want by my side? Not the group who is dumb enough to blast themselves into extinction. Not the group whose hand need to be held because they can't follow a simple word of warning or a direct order.  So I say, go ahead and do you thing Leigon, Go ahead and do your thing Tali/Raan. Uh oh, Gerrel is a hot headed loser who doesn't want to listen in the middle of a battle where listening to orders/warning/new pieces of intel means life or death? Can I persuade him to back down? Nope? Oh well.

[Hazegurl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy?

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Hm, no I won't take offense. Namely because you most likely have IRL reasons why you feel that way. In which case, I would find that creepy.

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

I knew it, so nope not offended. Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions. But keep on keeping on.

[CynicalShep]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Is this hard to understand? We're told repeatedly the civilians want out and many of them were ready to make a break for it. Han'Gerrel is the reason they all got stuck in that quagmire. It was likely the same in the Morning War.

Well, you have to admire their discipline - not a single quarian civilian captain disobeyed his order to fight a clearly lost battle that would obviously result in the extinction of their entire species with no hope of achieving anything at all.

More importantly, that is only true for the initial engagement; there is nothing to stop dissenting quarian captains from a) having Gerrel court-martialled and stripped of his command or deserting this clearly demented admiral.

I don't agree with you very often but yeah ^

Modifié par CynicalShep, 20 novembre 2013 - 05:45 .

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Hazegurl wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Who is he to tell Legion that he can't upload the code to save his own people? Now Shepard is just butting in and being a hypocrite. He now wants Legion and the Geth to lay down die, well why don't the humans just lay down die and let the reapers kill them then? 

He doesn't have to "be" anyone. It's just an act of power/war/competition and force of will. Not about who has "rights". There is no right or wrong in this game world, or in this war. There is no objective force informing you of the "right" thing to do.

The Reapers consider themselves the objective force/god of this world, but that's coming to an end too. You're going to be given a choice to shoot them down soon enough, just like Legion. All you have to do is want to do it. Just like with Legion.

Having the "right" to do something comes down whoever is left standing in the end. That guy can say "Fug it. I was right, and had the rights.. because I'm the only one alive. They were wrong because they're dead." It's ugly and brutal, but it is what it is. There's no referee here to disapprove or pat you on the back.

You're right and I actually agree. Everyone is doing what they feel is best for their own race.  It's up to you to determine if the actions taken is the best for you. Simple as that. The way I see it. I get a win/win with both on my side. With one gone it's a win/lose. So I let Darwin sort it out. Who am I to tell Legion he can't save his own people when I'm scrambling to save my own? Who am I to save a bunch of people who are so hell bent on hulk smashing everything? The answer is, I'm the one who is deciding what I need on the battle field to save my own species. At the end of the day who do I want by my side? Not the group who is dumb enough to blast themselves into extinction. Not the group whose hand need to be held because they can't follow a simple word of warning or a direct order.  So I say, go ahead and do you thing Leigon, Go ahead and do your thing Tali/Raan. Uh oh, Gerrel is a hot headed loser who doesn't want to listen in the middle of a battle where listening to orders/warning/new pieces of intel means life or death? Can I persuade him to back down? Nope? Oh well.

That's true when you put it that way. The Quarians can be quite the ****es, or at least some of them. They're like Christians. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

I knew it, so nope not offended. Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions. But keep on keeping on.

Trying to understand what you're getting at here. This is just a game, but it's one meant to provoke moral debate. If you think I'm being anal about it feel free to check out the first few pages of the thread.

[Ryzaki]

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy?

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Hm, no I won't take offense. Namely because you most likely have IRL reasons why you feel that way. In which case, I would find that creepy.

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

I knew it, so nope not offended. Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions. But keep on keeping on.

I will never understand why people do the bolded.

Is it really that hard to seperate fiction from reality? So tired of people going "OMG you killed a video game character! Clearly you must be a psycho/sociopath in real life!"

No honey I just am aware they're pixel characters and thus fake. And I'm wasting time and money interacting with them so I do so in a way that entertains me.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[wolfhowwl]

Going by some unnamed posters in the Dragon Age forum, apparently not.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Ryzaki]

Oi vey.

So many times being called an evil vile baby killer (by Anders supporters no less! Ones who admit to cheering when the Chantry blew up and wanting to make out with Anders right afterwards. The sheer hypocrisy was mindboggling) for siding with the templars.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:37 .