293 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oi vey.

So many times being called an evil vile baby killer (by Anders supporters no less! Ones who admit to cheering when the Chantry blew up and wanting to make out with Anders right afterwards. The sheer hypocrisy was mindboggling) for siding with the templars.

Well, you are. At least in game terms.

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...
I don't think it's the same.

Not to me at least. You're not commiting outright genocide either way in DA2. It's a war of ideas.. with devastating losses, no doubt, but not complete losses. Besides that, the war is ongoing. Choosing an idea in Mass Effect carries it the fate of entire races (It's pretty ridiculous actually.. so it shouldn't be taken too seriously anyways. But still).

It's a similar can't seperate fiction from reality mindset is my point. Juding someone's character by what they do in a video game is silly.

And if you're gonna judge you should be aware by just playing the game you're playing a killer of hundreds if not thousands of people with murderers, torturers and other morally grey/bankrupt characters.

The decisions themselves are different because Hawke's rather worthless and his/her decision only effects whether a few hundred people live or die. Shepard has a lot more lives riding on his/her decisions.

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, you are. At least in game terms.

Oh look who it is! *yawn*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:50 .

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Be nice people. I don't want to cuddle with anyone in their sleep.:innocent:

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:52 .

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...
Oh, I wasn't really following that other train of thought about "real life comparisons". Didn't mean to confuse you. I was mostly comparing DA2 and ME3. The scale is so much different, I think.

Nah I'm talking about people who use decisions people make in a video game as a springboard for personal attacks.

And yeah the scale between DA2 and ME3 is much different. Shep has a lot more riding on him/her.

[Hazegurl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Hazegurl
Would you take offense if I said I find your attitude really really creepy?

Edit: Also, yeah, the Crucible plot sucks. You won't see me defending it.

Hm, no I won't take offense. Namely because you most likely have IRL reasons why you feel that way. In which case, I would find that creepy.

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

I knew it, so nope not offended. Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions. But keep on keeping on.

I will never understand why people do the bolded.

Is it really that hard to seperate fiction from reality? So tired of people going "OMG you killed a video game character! Clearly you must be a psycho/sociopath in real life!"

No honey I just am aware they're pixel characters and thus fake. And I'm wasting time and money interacting with them so I do so in a way that entertains me.

So much this. It's an RPG not a moral compass. I wish more people realized that instead of trying to "win" an internet debate by proclaiming the other as evil.

[Hazegurl]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I'd think it was creepy if any mass killer had a fan following willing to excuse everything they did. It's like those idiot girls who latched onto that Tsarnaev guy who bombed the Boston Marathon. "Too cute to be a terrorist," my ass.

Why does anyone argue these things except as a reflection of their attitudes about something in real life? Mages versus Templars is a reflection of the freedom versus security debate. This is just another manifestation of that.

I knew it, so nope not offended. Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions. But keep on keeping on.

Trying to understand what you're getting at here. This is just a game, but it's one meant to provoke moral debate[/b]. If you think I'm being anal about it feel free to check out the first few pages of the thread.

Me thinks you need to look up the difference between personal attack and moral debate.

[Hazegurl]

@StreetMagic, lol! Pretty much. They might as well call themselves a killer for playing a character that kills people.

I may not like Anders but I don't think anyone who romanced him will shack up with a church bomber IRL.

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...
I can definitely agree there.

Some people take the moral compass thing to further extremes too. The "geth/quarian" stuff is easy fodder for debate (and can be fun and civil), but every once in awhile, you'll run into someone who will "morally admonish" you for the romance options you prefer too. They'll twist anything into some real life moral angle. Some people just need to get on some meds, I think. I have no doubt that they are mentally ill. It's probably not even worth discussing anything with them.

Well as long as you avoid certain posters who will argue for 20 pages on the same damn point.

And yeah it's just...*shakes head* I don't mind gentle ribbing but some people take it way too far.

[Ryzaki]

XD

So so very very true.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There was nothing to prevent Bioware from writing a better plot. The sheer idiocy of throwing this entire decision on Shepard's shoulders was mind-blowing.

Shepard: Hey, I just killed the reaper. I'm having a smoke. You two figure out this one.

[RatThing]

Hazegurl wrote...
Your life would be so much easier if you didn't try to search for IRL reasons for video game decisions.

It's not that easy for me if the writer and developer make a moral question of it themselves. In Fallout New Vegas for example, I could kill half of the Mojave before I could destroy ED-E or Yesman, because here they are all just characters in a RPG. But when the Mass Effect writer talk about synthetics vs. organics they use these controversial terms like racism and slavery. Here's an example from the creator of the Geth.

"There was always a knowledge among the writers that the treatment of AIs in Council Space is pure racism on the part of organics, akin to the legal and moral handwavings used throughout history to justify slavery  of "lesser races.""

They make a strong moral real life question out of it themselfes and so it's not that easy for me to switch my morals off when making decisions.

Modifié par RatThing, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:49 .

[RatThing]

StreetMagic wrote...

RatThing wrote...

"There was always a knowledge among the writers that the treatment of AIs in Council Space is pure racism on the part of organics, akin to the legal and moral handwavings used throughout history to justify slavery  of "lesser races.""

They make a strong moral real life question out of it themselfes and so it's not that easy for me to switch my morals out when making decisions.

As much as I like L'Etoile, you should also keep in mind he had nothing to do with ME3 or his characters' development in ME3. I don't know if anyone on that team thinks like him (for better or worse). It's hard to tell what they prefer as far as destruction of synthetics go. It's pretty open ended now.

Weekes also calls Tali a racist and the Quarians a racist society and he wrote the Rannoch arc (one of the most biased storylines in the trilogy).

Modifié par RatThing, 20 novembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And Weekes drops the entire decision of what to do with the Quarians and the Geth on Shepard who doesn't have a clue about Quarian culture or history. We have an entire 30 minute view of it in ME2, and a few conversations from some admirals. We don't know hardly any of the people. We see an entire 5 minutes of clips of the Geth viewpoint, and 30 minutes of Legions pontificating. All we know about the Geth is that they've been trying to kill Shepard on every single meeting except for Legion.

And now Shepard is supposed to make this decision because of heroism. This is just bull****. It's horrible writing. It does boil down to resources and it is why a video game is a horrible media for telling this type of story. It is overly simplistic. We don't have enough information.

[Daemul]

RatThing wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

RatThing wrote...

"There was always a knowledge among the writers that the treatment of AIs in Council Space is pure racism on the part of organics, akin to the legal and moral handwavings used throughout history to justify slavery  of "lesser races.""

They make a strong moral real life question out of it themselfes and so it's not that easy for me to switch my morals out when making decisions.

As much as I like L'Etoile, you should also keep in mind he had nothing to do with ME3 or his characters' development in ME3. I don't know if anyone on that team thinks like him (for better or worse). It's hard to tell what they prefer as far as destruction of synthetics go. It's pretty open ended now.

Weekes also calls Tali a racist and the Quarians a racist society and he wrote the Rannoch arc (one of the most biased storylines in the trilogy).

I always laugh whenever I rewatch that part of the PAX Panel on YouTube. Everyone starts cheering and clapping when Weekes says he loves Team Dextro, then he says Tali has flaws and is a racist, the whole place goes silent.

[DeinonSlayer]

RatThing said it better than I did. I apologize for my choice of words, Hazegurl, but it's hard to simply switch off one's morals when discussing the topic.

[Jorji Costava]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And now Shepard is supposed to make this decision because of heroism. This is just bull****. It's horrible writing. It does boil down to resources and it is why a video game is a horrible media for telling this type of story. It is overly simplistic. We don't have enough information.

Actually, I'd argue that games are a very good medium for telling this kind of story, given that games, unlike movies or TV shows, give players the opportunity to explore whatever nooks and crannies of the gameworld that they like (this video has a helpful discussion). In a movie, an extended tangent on some part of the lore would risk ruining the pacing, but in a game, the pacing is up to the player at least to some degree; if you don't like how slowly things are going, then stop spending all day reading codex entries, clicking on every NPC and object there is, etc. I think we're in agreement that Rannoch didn't do a good job accomplishing this, but I don't think it's due to an inherent limitation in games.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

RatThing said it better than I did. I apologize for my choice of words, Hazegurl, but it's hard to simply switch off one's morals when discussing the topic.

Why do you follow morals?

[CronoDragoon]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why do you follow morals?

Morals are just a code for how to live. Everyone follows them, except perhaps utterly insane people.

[trenq]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

There was nothing to prevent Bioware from writing a better plot. The sheer idiocy of throwing this entire decision on Shepard's shoulders was mind-blowing.

Shepard: Hey, I just killed the reaper. I'm having a smoke. You two figure out this one.

I second that.
17 million people and millions of Geth are in Shepard's hand, seriously?