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[RedIntifada]

Anita Sarkeesian's series Tropes vs. Women in games has a new episode.

http://kotaku.com/ne...male-1466898678

The episode discusses ME's marketing (around the 19:55 mark) in particular the issue of the default protagonist being male and the female version being defined by the fact that she is female i.e. there is Shepard and femShepard rather than Shepard and maleShep.

With almost half of RPG gamers being female the fact that women are always having to negotiate a male protagonist in marketing is a problem.

Already we have seen the first bits of footage for Dragon Age: Inquisition and of coures we had a male playing character in that demo. It would be great if we could see some female inquisitors in future demos and marketing especially without a big deal being made of it i.e. that it just happens as this is our inquisitor as opposed to it being seen as a special thing that inquisitors are female.

Also it would be great if the default option on character building menues didn't default to male. I could be wrong but most (if not all) RPG games that I have played  have the default option (i.e. the one the cursor starts on) as male which probably increases the statistic to male. The majority of people probably played soldiers on ME3 for the same reason.

Female gamers deserve to finally feel like they are the "default" and male gamers can and should learn to navigate seeing themselves through a female avitar... like women gamers are constantly having to do.



MODEDIT:  Keep this on the topic.  Personal attacks against posters or Anita will not be tolerated.
- Allan

Modifié par RedIntifada, 19 novembre 2013 - 05:27 .

[ruggly]

And here we go...

[David7204]

Gosh, nothing like deriding it as 'sexism' right off the bat to start a nice conversation.

Modifié par David7204, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:09 .

[Xilizhra]

A rather mild and uncontroversial point that will of course not be treated as such. Pity.

[RedIntifada]

That male shouldn't be default in pretty much every game and marketing should really be a no brainier. It is sad that discussion of sexism (as a way to improve the gaming experience for all) is started with "And here we go..." not surprisingly from someone whose profile pick seems to be a large male Wrex hitting a small female Kasumi across the room... as though violence towards smaller females by larger males is a gaming highlight.

[Estelindis]

I agree that it would be great to see more of the female protagonist in marketing, demos, etc.

[Xilizhra]

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

[efd731]

A rather foolish thing to say, because as Long as both sexes are an option it doesn't really matter. If having a female in future demos is a step towards equality, will men get to say that it is sexist?

[Ieldra]

I fully support the predominance of a female Inquisitor in DAI's promotional material and the default gender being changed to female.

As for the "sexism" thing in the absence of female protagonists in the promotional material, it's your everyday sexism, not meant to be offensive and invisible to the "perpetrators" because for them, it's just the status quo. It is, noneless based on assumptions like "female protagonists don't work", which are sexist because the evidence for that is anecdotal. Make an unsuccessful game with a female protagonist in the promo material, and it will get blamed on the female protagonist, make an unsuccessful game with a male protagonist in the promo material, it will get blamed on something else. If that isn't sexist I don't know what is.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

Perhaps a trailer that shuffles between the different Inquisitors in various points of the action, to showcase different races, classes, and genders.

[RedIntifada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

Why not just have a female protagonist as the more common default? For decades female gamers have had to wrap their heads around playing as male characters, and even when they know there is a female option being advertised to through a male perspective. Males can learn how to do that with female avitars.

[CynicalShep]

Xilizhra wrote...

A rather mild and uncontroversial point that will of course not be treated as such. Pity.

lol

[Xilizhra]

RedIntifada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

Why not just have a female protagonist as the more common default? For decades female gamers have had to wrap their heads around playing as male characters, and even when they know there is a female option being advertised to through a male perspective. Males can learn how to do that with female avitars.

They can, yes, but this is a matter of convincing bottom line-obsessed executives to be sneakily led into doing the right thing.

[CroGamer002]

"Anita Sarkeesian"


Aaaaaaand I'm out.

[Estelindis]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

[Xilizhra]

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

Female qunari rogue or mage? That would be really cool.

[Xilizhra]

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

Female qunari rogue or mage? That would be really cool.

Tal-Vashoth. Only foreigners would call them qunari; the qunari and Tal-Vashoth themselves refuse to do so.

[David7204]

Have people considered how confusing it would be to players to show half a dozen protagonists?

It should be clear who the player character is. It's not going to be clear at all if marketing shows a dozen different combinations of races and genders.

Modifié par David7204, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:42 .

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Have people considered how confusing it would be to players to show half a dozen protagonists?

No. You've got one person taking point, especially with the same companions behind them; it's pretty obvious who it is. If you think others are still sufficiently dumb as to not get it, give all PCs that one hat.

[Dave of Canada]

We've had this thread countless times before and I agree on some of the points, it's just difficult to create a marketing which targets both genders due to how marketing is created for mass-appeal and not because of social equality. HOWEVER... Mass Effect 3 did it, why the view that DA:I won't do it as well?

As a side note, I hate Tropes vs Women because it brings up absolutely nothing new. I don't understand how she was paid so much.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:43 .

[Rolling Flame]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

I'd like to see the different races in action, which in itself isn't a bad thing to promote. No reason why they can't show both male and female Inquisitors as well.

[Hellion Rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

Female qunari rogue or mage? That would be really cool.

Tal-Vashoth. Only foreigners would call them qunari; the qunari and Tal-Vashoth themselves refuse to do so.

Female horn creature rogue or mage. Whatever the heck you call them. You know what I mean, Xil.

[David7204]

In hour long demos and previews, sure. In 30 second commercials? Doubt it.

I'd prefer they just use a single female human protagonist than try to portray every combination.

[Xilizhra]

Female horn creature rogue or mage. Whatever the heck you call them. You know what I mean, Xil.

Sorry, I'm anal.

In hour long demos and previews, sure. In 30 second commercials? Doubt it.

Give them that hat; it should solve everything.