311 réponses à ce sujet

[frankf43]

Wraith 02 wrote...

frankf43 wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

frankf43 wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Have people considered the deeper reasons as to why male combative characters appeal over female combative characters? Deeper than 'we're all sexist'?

Is it because we as a culture associate traditional 'heroism' with a male protagonists?  And have done so for thousands of years?

Actually, that's more or less right.

But why is that?

Almost certainly because of violence. Because pretty much all 'epic' fiction in existence involves violence in some form, and the great majority of epic heroes are warriors. And who are the people who commit violence? Men.

So at some level, female warriors aren't taken as seriously. They certainly aren't taken as seriously in real life. And that includes by me.

I don't know what gender this is more prejudice against. 

Males. It quite clearly states that only males are violent a negative emotion when it is completely untrue.

This is the problem with Sexism, you read that post as "Men are violent" and took it out of context.

He is actually stating that historically men are considered to be the more violent of the 2 sexes and this is the reason they are featured in violent videogames.

He was in no way stating that that was true or his opinion, so read it more closely next time.

the line I commented on states, "And who commits violence? Men."

Not who is the most violent or who commits the most acts of violence but which of the two sexes is violent.

Read back over the posts that were placed before his respone rather than taking it out of context. We are discussing why warriors and soldiers are historically represented as men, even if they are not.

He said because men are violent. In the context of historically and represented in general culture and gaming. He wasn't saying that every man that ever existed commited violence and that no women ever has.

People need to start learning to read an entire conversation instead of joining halfway through and taking offense at comments when they don't know the context it is being used in.

I have, but his summation of the posts was that last post.  Now I haven't either taken it out of context or taken offence. my point is that you should never generalises. Asking who commits violence? then answering his own question with men is generalising and generalisations are almost always inaccurate.  See the way I added almost there to make sure that I didn't generalise.
 

[Br3admax]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

In every culture and society throughout all of human history, it's men who become warriors and fight battles. I don't know of a single exception. It's men who commit the overwhelmingly majority of homicides and other violent crimes. It's men who make up the vast bulk of participants in violent sports.

And this has nothing to do with women, but the roles assigned to them. Some would say this is bad, but very few will pretend like this isn't why. 

Agreed, and this starts to shift away from the topic and far too much towards even MORE controversial topics.

Lets keep this about gaming please.

We can't really talk about the phenomenon in video games without examining its roots in real life...

It's not why.

We're all waiting for your explanation then, David. Please enlighten us. 

Given I asked him not to....

Oh, okay. I'm just slightly curious though. I really would like to see it. 

[Anthadlas]

Cyonan wrote...

Out of curiosity, is there any evidence supporting the claims of men outnumbering women in specific genres? The only thing I can remember off the top of my head is that the split overall is roughly 50/50, and a quick Google search shows similar results however they don't get into specific genres or even the more hardcore gaming vs social/mobile games.

Also, making female characters the "default" character does not solve anything OP.

That's not equality. Equality would be the game showing you both options at the character creation screen and letting you choose which one you want.

If we want to be equal, then let's be equal. Let's not elevate one side above the other simply because the other has had it a lot better and been the standard for years.

In mainstream gaming males tend to far outnumber females. Reports that there is a 50/50 split tend to include mobile games and such which most casual female gamers play alot more.

And even in such results they don't take into account that males tend to play games for alot longer periods than females do

Modifié par Wraith 02, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:09 .

[Anthadlas]

Br3ad wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

In every culture and society throughout all of human history, it's men who become warriors and fight battles. I don't know of a single exception. It's men who commit the overwhelmingly majority of homicides and other violent crimes. It's men who make up the vast bulk of participants in violent sports.

And this has nothing to do with women, but the roles assigned to them. Some would say this is bad, but very few will pretend like this isn't why. 

Agreed, and this starts to shift away from the topic and far too much towards even MORE controversial topics.

Lets keep this about gaming please.

We can't really talk about the phenomenon in video games without examining its roots in real life...

It's not why.

We're all waiting for your explanation then, David. Please enlighten us. 

Given I asked him not to....

Oh, okay. I'm just slightly curious though. I really would like to see it. 

He actually already gave it a few pages back, you missed it

[David7204]

This might be a good time to go ahead and mention that the oft-quoted statistic of females making up 43% of the video game player population is almost certainly wrong to the degree of being worthless.

Modifié par David7204, 19 novembre 2013 - 08:10 .

[SlottsMachine]

Steelcan wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...


This is an excellent point. Very well put. It is also important to remember that LGBT gamers and gamers who are POC should also be included in the promo material and advertising.

Why?

There is no economic incentive to advertise towards a relatively small part of the market. 

Diversity isn't needed in the trailers, its needed in the game.

Boldened. 

[Steelcan]

Silfren wrote...

Finally,having Sheploo in a trailer isn't inherently sexist, no, but unless I've completely misunderstood, nobody has actually argued that it is. What has been said argued that the practice of nearly always using male PCs to promote games, of having male PCs as the default, is demonstrative of sexist assumptions.

And I say it isn't.

Look at the PAX infographic on ME, even when the option for a female character was availble the vast majority went with male.  this either means that female gamers aren't terribly focused on playing female protagonists if they make up anywhere near 50% of the market, or it means that the game had a heavily male audience.

Thus marketing towards said demographic is logical and done out of economic necessity, not sexist inclinations.

[MissOuJ]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Oh god don't start that. Do you really think that LGBT are watching adverts waiting to see references towards the characters sexual preference before they buy a game?

I can't imagine an advert where Shepard is fighting and stops mid trailer to wink at another soldier just to point out the fact that it's possible to be gay xD

Umm...

Since Default Male Hawke can mentally zoom out of his fight with the Arishok to relive his memories of Isabela (which include quite obvious romantic overtones) to gain the mental strenght to rip the Arishok to pieces in the DA2 launch trailer... why couldn't this be replicated with a Female Hawke + Isabela / Merrill, or Male Hawke + Fenris / Anders ? All of them are valid in-game options. Just saying.

(Also let's discuss how Isabela is very, very much paler in the trailer and in the promo material than she is in the game. Or let's not: we all know how that'll end...)

[Ieldra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

iakus wrote...

And sadly, this is something many game developers, even Bioware, are guilty of.  Not just in marketing a game, but in how characters are portrayed in-game as well.  Catsuits and whatnot.

Indeed.  There are a lot of things that could be done better.

That's not to say attractive women (or men) can never be done.  But if the point of putting someone into a catsuit (or bikini platemail) comes across as nothing more than "just because" then I don't see it as a good thing.

I want the women in the games to be attractive. I also want them competent, smart and occasionally badass. Problems start when design choices are made at the expense of plausible characterization, especially when they go for the "cheap thrill". If you have a woman whose backstory screams "classy and stylish", you can make her beautiful in many different ways, but putting her into a cheaply thrilling outfit damages her as a character. Bonus points if her character  profile says "inconspicuous" and her outfit is anything but.

[Allan Schumacher]

Thread closed.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

David7204 wrote...

There's common knowledge. Common knowledge that just about every young male in America plays video games in some form of fashion. And that while many young females do, many don't.

there we have it folks. common knowledge is fact, and is never based on faulty assumptions or skewed by bias

[Billy-the-Squid]

David7204 wrote...

This might be a good time to go ahead and mention that the oft-quoted statistic of females making up 43% of the video game player population is almost certainly wrong to the degree of being worthless.

Unless we're counting angry birds type games. But, don't tell them that they'll call you sexist!