311 réponses à ce sujet

[Fardreamer]

I completely agree... RPG games that center around building your own characters and making your own choices should be marketed with both male and female protagonists. We should have a trailer that shows a female inquisitor leading the group, similar to Sacred Ashes.

[shinyelf]

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

But whatcharacter would go first, the male or the female?(Please note that no matter which gender you pick im calling sexism)

I do support the use of different genders in demos and such, however i dont belive in making things uneccesarily difficult, and at some point we will just have to accept that there might not be some great conspiracy going on(Maybe the guy in the demo is just a guy in a demo and not a representative of female subjugation). 

[RedIntifada]

David7204 wrote...

Have people considered how confusing it would be to players to show half a dozen protagonists?

It should be clear who the player character is. It's not going to be clear at all if marketing shows a dozen different combinations of races and genders.

I do think David has a point here, sometimes it is useful to have a lead marketing image, it would be nice if DA:I bucked the trend by making that image a female for a change. The other options could be used here and there to higlight the diversity of the world like femShep was or have reversable cover like ME did but have on the outside a female Qunari and on the inside a male elf, which would be automatically engaging because it actually shows inversions of gender stereotypes (women as stronger and larger with men displaying more finesse).

[Boost32]

Since when,f emale gamers representa 50%?
Formalmente shepard was only player by 18%, and we cant now how much of those were man and how much were woman

[Dave of Canada]

Boost32 wrote...

Since when,f emale gamers representa 50%?
Formalmente shepard was only player by 18%, and we cant now how much of those were man and how much were woman

It represents 50% if you include mobile and social network games.

[David7204]

They really need to showcase human characters, not elves, dwarves, or qunari on the box. That has nothing to do with gender. Just making clear that humans actually exist in the setting to the casual observer.

[RedIntifada]

shinyelf wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Hmmm... so the question becomes, how do they show multiple Inquisitors during one round of marketing, if that would be the optimal way to go about this? Showing two different examples of gameplay footage with different PCs?

At least when they're doing gameplay demos at cons, couldn't it be as easy as showng the female protagonist sometimes and showing the male protagonist at other times?  I mean, unless the female version isn't actually ready yet...

That could also work. Possibly also showing a female protagonist of a different race?

But whatcharacter would go first, the male or the female?(Please note that no matter which gender you pick im calling sexism)

I do support the use of different genders in demos and such, however i dont belive in making things uneccesarily difficult, and at some point we will just have to accept that there might not be some great conspiracy going on(Maybe the guy in the demo is just a guy in a demo and not a representative of female subjugation). 

In and of itself a gender choice is a choice and it isn't sexist to choose a male. The problem is that it keeps happening. It wasn't sexist for Dr. Who to be male, but after a dozen doctors all being white males... I think it isnt that conspiritorial to say there is something about how society thinks in that... rather than it being a coincidence again.

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

They really need to showcase human characters, not elves, dwarves, or qunari on the box. That has nothing to do with gender. Just making clear that humans actually exist in the setting to the casual observer.

There are human starting companions.

[dragonflight288]

I personally don't care if they use a male or a female for their promotional material. They've already said we get to choose our race and gender, so I feel like it's largely moot, at least in the Dragon Age games.

On the flip side, it'd almost being like asking the Japanese to make more anime with magical boy protagonists, since nearly every anime with magic always stars the girls. Is it sexist? Probably to a certain degree, but it's nearly the same issue only in reverse and I simply couldn't care less either way.

All I really want from my games is a great story, excellent characters, solid game-user interface, and quite likely an excellent soundtrack.

[Pressedcat]

The question is; is it a question of sexism or is it a case of consumerism, conservatism and risk aversion? If a company knows that in the past their demographic has responded more positively to a particularly style of advertising or character type, it can make good business sense to continue down the same vein, rather than taking a chance on a new direction. If they try mixing things up they have three potential outcomes: the player base reacts positively and sales improve; the player base is indifferent to the change and there is no net change; the player base do not react so well sales decrease. If these options have equal likelihood, they will benefit from taking a risk precisely 1/3 of the time. Their financial number crunchers would likely advise they not take the risk. Of course, BioWare pride themselves on being less conservative and pushing equality whenever possible, but even they have to assess how much potential loss they are willing to swallow by taking a chance.

I suspect that female characters will be given a weightier portion of the advertising the minute the number crunchers decide that their demographic would react positively.

There quite probably remains sexism in the industry, but I think it can be too easy to dismiss as sexism what is simply a wish to maximise profits.

As to the point you raised about the character creation page usually defaulting to a male protagonist, I think it is an interesting one. To be honest, its an issue I had never really thought about, though that is likely due to the fact that I never play the default character. I guess it can subconsciously place in one's mind the default identity of the protagonist, so game developers could probably afford to mix this up a bit.

All that being said, I agree that companies should focus on more equality in their advertisement. Although my first playthrough will generally be as a male (unless I prefer the female voice actor, as in DA2), I doubt I would be put off a game if both male and female protagonists were given equal footing in the marketing.

[wolfsite]

If anything Mass Effect has shown how marketing has evolved.

Mass Effect 1 marketing focused on the Male version of Shepard

by Mass Effect 3 advertising has changed with female Shepard appearing in marketing videos and even the launch video (which was all pre-rendered) having both male and female Shepard versions.

Even DA2 had both male and female versions of each profession on screen at the same time.

At the same time though just because a game uses a male or female character  in it's marketing or even starts on the male setting doesn't make it sexist (as there could be hundreds of reasons from budgeting concerns, keeping the marketing focused as diversifying can lead to confusion, space available,etc).  It could have merely been a design choice by a developer who didn't even have things like sexism on there mine, but people claim sexism regardless if the intention was true or not.

Modifié par wolfsite, 19 novembre 2013 - 03:00 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Oh I love Anita Sarkeesian I keep forgetting to watch her videos. Thanks for shedding light on this newest ME-focused one, OP.

BW has used female Inquisitors in its promo art. One of the FemQuisitors (great point by AS about Shep versus FemShep btw) was a woman of color.

[Xilizhra]

The question is; is it a question of sexism or is it a case of consumerism, conservatism and risk aversion?

By no means does it have to be either/or.

As to the point you raised about the character creation page usually defaulting to a male protagonist, I think it is an interesting one. To be honest, its an issue I had never really thought about, though that is likely due to the fact that I never play the default character. I guess it can subconsciously place in one's mind the default identity of the protagonist, so game developers could probably afford to mix this up a bit.

DA2 actually did not do this, by having its male and female classes all standing in a line on the same screen. So that could be afforded.

[Boost32]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Boost32 wrote...

Since when,f emale gamers representa 50%?
Formalmente shepard was only player by 18%, and we cant now how much of those were man and how much were woman

It represents 50% if you include mobile and social network games.

yes I know, but the OP said they are half of the RPG games, its obsvously a lie
Bioware use more male protagonist because they have more male players, I dont think its hard to understand

[RedIntifada]

Boost32 wrote...

Since when,f emale gamers representa 50%?
Formalmente shepard was only player by 18%, and we cant now how much of those were man and how much were woman

Part of the problem with the 18% statistic is that marketing tells us a male protagonist is more "normal" ie. the defualt but also more importantly it is the standard setting games start on.... It is like having your name on the top of the ballot paper it gives you an advantage. It would have been interesting if Vanguard was the starting point for your character in ME3 whether warrior would have still been 50%. Vanguard's powers are a lot less the norm (harder to master in some ways and more strange power) but it is hard to tell if less people chose it because THEY view it as less normal or if they just figured they would select what Bioware indicated was the default way of having a good experience.

[LOLandStuff]

Well, aren't people already using maleShep and femShep to differentiate them and Shepard for both. And what happened to Sheploo?

[Lord Raijin]

Anita Sarkeesian is like a blood mage... you can't trust her opinions, especially when she blocks peoples comments on her youtube channel. I can only pray to the Maker that she doesn't lay her feminist sticky hands on Dragon Age, and spread her feminism virus to alter the game it self just to please herself and others like her.

Let her ruin Mass Effect all she wants... just leave Dragon Age alone.

[Wulfram]

It's not sexist to target a particular audience.

Whether it's good business sense is a different question.

I think character creation is a good feature that shouldn't be hidden away by the advertising.

Modifié par Wulfram, 19 novembre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Senya]

Marketing and promotion is a part of business. It all depends on what works. If catering to the male demographic yields more sales, then they will cater to the male demographic. If catering to the female demographic yields more sales, then they will catert to the female demographic. If catering to both yields more sales, then they will cater to both.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It sounds like you've been infected with something worse. Especially from someone who speaks of feminism as though it's a bad thing.

I don't want feminism to interfere with my entertainment that I paid good money to play. If Anita Sarkeesian actually practiced true feminismin the real world I would support her, but no. She spends far too much time bickering over video games when she should be going over to places like the middle east and help the women get equal rights as men, however I don't see her doing that because it takes real courage to stand up for RL rights of women.

Ok, first of all genius, have you actually seen the comments that she has blocked on YouTube? Have you looked at the Wikipedia page on her that people comepletely f*cked up beyond any common sense?

Edit: At one point, someone even made a comparison between her and Jennifer Hepler on that Wikipedia page, attempting to connect the two and their "feminism".

Modifié par eluvianix, 19 novembre 2013 - 03:21 .

[RedIntifada]

Boost32 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Boost32 wrote...

Since when,f emale gamers representa 50%?
Formalmente shepard was only player by 18%, and we cant now how much of those were man and how much were woman

It represents 50% if you include mobile and social network games.

yes I know, but the OP said they are half of the RPG games, its obsvously a lie
Bioware use more male protagonist because they have more male players, I dont think its hard to understand

Actually your game data is here http://webcache.goog...lient=firefox-a

And it lists 48% of gamers being women but then lists the top 20 video games by units sold and guess what all those mobile and social network games aren't in there. So unless some how that 48% of gamers has a broader taste in games then men so that none of the games they play get into the top 20, which would have to be a MUCH broader selection or those games werent being purchased as much by men or women... or for some reason the survey of which games people purchased and the survey of which gender gamer are you was done seperatly (which seems highly unlikely as they usually collect the data at one time)

OR and this is the most likely option... they actually went into a regular game shop that sells the sorts of games listed and found that actually women gamers tend to (surprise surprise) buy the same sorts of games that men do with some variation.

The idea that only male gamers dominate console games is a myth, used to justify sexism in games. 

[Chaos Hammer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Anita Sarkeesian is like a blood mage... you can't trust her opinions, especially when she blocks peoples comments on her youtube channel. I can only pray to the Maker that she doesn't lay her feminist sticky hands on Dragon Age, and spread her feminism virus to alter the game it self just to please herself and others like her.

It sounds like you've been infected with something worse. Especially from someone who speaks of feminism as though it's a bad thing.

If feminism is not a bad thing then you are a hypocrite. Feminism is the exact opposite of Misogyny(male superiority not sure if that's the right word) I'm all for equality... but that means you don't get to whine because "hey, we think the guy model would be better fit for this part" or the opposite. Switzerland pissed me off in this regard recently. The are trying to pass a bill that mandates 30% of the seats in board rooms are women... that's beyond assanine. The position should go to the 'best" candidate regaurdless of sex, race, or whatever else, this kind of thinking just is a reversal of the oppressor.... strong word... just couldn't think of a slighter one 

[RedIntifada]

Chaos Hammer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Anita Sarkeesian is like a blood mage... you can't trust her opinions, especially when she blocks peoples comments on her youtube channel. I can only pray to the Maker that she doesn't lay her feminist sticky hands on Dragon Age, and spread her feminism virus to alter the game it self just to please herself and others like her.

It sounds like you've been infected with something worse. Especially from someone who speaks of feminism as though it's a bad thing.

If feminism is not a bad thing then you are a hypocrite. Feminism is the exact opposite of Misogyny(male superiority not sure if that's the right word) I'm all for equality... but that means you don't get to whine because "hey, we think the guy model would be better fit for this part" or the opposite. Switzerland pissed me off in this regard recently. The are trying to pass a bill that mandates 30% of the seats in board rooms are women... that's beyond assanine. The position should go to the 'best" candidate regaurdless of sex, race, or whatever else, this kind of thinking just is a reversal of the oppressor.... strong word... just couldn't think of a slighter one 

Sure A male may be better for a part than A female.... but if consistently men are chosen over women either you come to the sexist assumption that men are most of the time better than women or you fight for equality by recognising that there isnt an equal starting field and marketing is a classic example of that, When I play roulett I expect the ball to land on the red at least 1/3rd of the time. If only 10% of the time it goes red and the rest of the time it is black... you probably have yourself a rigged table.

[Xilizhra]

Chaos Hammer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Anita Sarkeesian is like a blood mage... you can't trust her opinions, especially when she blocks peoples comments on her youtube channel. I can only pray to the Maker that she doesn't lay her feminist sticky hands on Dragon Age, and spread her feminism virus to alter the game it self just to please herself and others like her.

It sounds like you've been infected with something worse. Especially from someone who speaks of feminism as though it's a bad thing.

If feminism is not a bad thing then you are a hypocrite. Feminism is the exact opposite of Misogyny(male superiority not sure if that's the right word) I'm all for equality... but that means you don't get to whine because "hey, we think the guy model would be better fit for this part" or the opposite. Switzerland pissed me off in this regard recently. The are trying to pass a bill that mandates 30% of the seats in board rooms are women... that's beyond assanine. The position should go to the 'best" candidate regaurdless of sex, race, or whatever else, this kind of thinking just is a reversal of the oppressor.... strong word... just couldn't think of a slighter one 

You're thinking of misandry. We also do not have a society where not having restrictions like that would lead to appointment based on merit; such restrictions are there to combat other contributing factors.

[TheChris92]

She's been the victim of undeserving harassment, due to a lot of gamers feeling threatened over her opinion on a sensitive topic. It's only natural she'd remove the comment section, because expecting anything rational from Youtube commenters is asking for too much. I haven't seen this video of hers, but I believe that the subject itself is worthy of discussion.