26 réponses à ce sujet

[ColorsFade]

Has anyone figured out a solution to this issue? The cave roof blocks the mini map, or at least makes it look pretty ugly.  

[MokahTGS]

These models would need to be remade so that the texture on the top in non-existent.

The best scenario would be for Calister to make some new cavern placeables that would work as roofs. The current ones are OK, but really not exactly what the community needs for making really interesting caves.

Calister?? nudge nudge...wink wink

[ColorsFade]

I know that Tchos modified these exact same placeables. He mentioned it on page 30 of his development diary, but he seems reluctant to package them and distribute them to the community. 
I thought I'd try and do it since I have Gmax on my computer, but I cannot get any of the NWN2 converters to work. I tried Tazpn's, but he's missing a critical file. The nw2gmax.exe is completely missing from the RAR file... so I can't make it work in GMAX do it myself. Whic is kind of sad, because at some point in time I'm going to need to work with Gmax. 

I agree that Calister could probably come up with some awesome stuff. Question is, would he want to? 

i'm unsure what to do for the time being. I want to wrap up this prologue. I might resort to RWS's Deep Caverns to get this cave set done, and then worry about external areas with roofs later, when they're more necessary. 

Modifié par ColorsFade, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:34 .

[rjshae]

I'm wondering how we get tiles that do have a roof texture yet don't block the mini map? Is there a bit flag that needs to be set somewhere? Perhaps it is using the direction of the surface normal to determine transparency?

Modifié par rjshae, 19 novembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[kamal_]

ColorsFade wrote...

I know that Tchos modified these exact same placeables. He mentioned it on page 30 of his development diary, but he seems reluctant to package them and distribute them to the community. 
I thought I'd try and do it since I have Gmax on my computer, but I cannot get any of the NWN2 converters to work. I tried Tazpn's, but he's missing a critical file. The nw2gmax.exe is completely missing from the RAR file... so I can't make it work in GMAX do it myself. Whic is kind of sad, because at some point in time I'm going to need to work with Gmax. 

I agree that Calister could probably come up with some awesome stuff. Question is, would he want to? 

i'm unsure what to do for the time being. I want to wrap up this prologue. I might resort to RWS's Deep Caverns to get this cave set done, and then worry about external areas with roofs later, when they're more necessary. 

nwmax.exe is the file you want to run with gmax. It's what I am using to do tiles. It goes in the gmax program folder, and you want to run the nwnmax executable instead of the gmax executable. If you run the gmax executable, it runs it without the nwn stuff.

Modifié par kamal_, 19 novembre 2013 - 06:16 .

[ColorsFade]

I get that kamal_, but I don't have the file. nwn2max - isn't in the RAR that Tazpn provides. Frankly, I don't know where to get it. Google isn't helping.

[ColorsFade]

rjshae wrote...

I'm wondering how we get tiles that do have a roof texture yet don't block the mini map? Is there a bit flag that needs to be set somewhere? Perhaps it is using the direction of the surface normal to determine transparency?

Well, for Ar Pharazon's cave roofs, they are really placeables, not tiles, so it make sense that they block the roof until you fix them, as Tchos did. 

[andysks]

There is a prefab area on the vault, called Pirate Lair from Saboera. It's exterior, but uses the Grinning fool's complete visual darkness. All he did is light the area himself, and the roof is not a problem, it really feels like being underground.

[kamal_]

ColorsFade wrote...

I get that kamal_, but I don't have the file. nwn2max - isn't in the RAR that Tazpn provides. Frankly, I don't know where to get it. Google isn't helping.

I'm using nwnmax.exe with gmax, typo in my previous post. I don't have a nwn2max file anywhere. I went with the installer version from tazpn.

Modifié par kamal_, 19 novembre 2013 - 06:16 .

[ColorsFade]

I tried to installer as well kamal_. It's not there.

Could I get you to zip your copy of the .exe and send it to me?

[ColorsFade]

andysks wrote...

There is a prefab area on the vault, called Pirate Lair from Saboera. It's exterior, but uses the Grinning fool's complete visual darkness. All he did is light the area himself, and the roof is not a problem, it really feels like being underground.

I'm looking at that and it looks pretty cool for some stuff I need to do later on (especially considering I need some neat dragon hoards). 

This cave I'm working on now needs to be shallow; not huge. I just wanted to try and exterior area with a roof trick so I could get used to building a cave that way for later. It's not a big deal; I'm going to use RWS's deep chasms since I need to get his Deep Environments tiles installed into my toolkit anyway. Then I can get this prologue done and move on to Scornubel. 

[kamal_]

ColorsFade wrote...

I tried to installer as well kamal_. It's not there.

Could I get you to zip your copy of the .exe and send it to me?

https://dl.dropboxus...munity/nwmax.7z

[rjshae]

ColorsFade wrote...

rjshae wrote...

I'm wondering how we get tiles that do have a roof texture yet don't block the mini map? Is there a bit flag that needs to be set somewhere? Perhaps it is using the direction of the surface normal to determine transparency?

Well, for Ar Pharazon's cave roofs, they are really placeables, not tiles, so it make sense that they block the roof until you fix them, as Tchos did.

Head slapping moment... of course they are.

[Tchos]

It was because those cave roof placeables were doubled. They have up-facing textured polygons and down-facing textured polygons. I selected all of the up-facing ones, and deleted them. With no up-facing polygons, they do not block the camera or the map views.

My reluctance to package them up for redistribution as a package on their own is a permissions issue. Just like PJ didn't want to redistribute the Dark Waters resources without permission, I don't have permission to do that for the cave roofs.

When I use Gmax, I only use NWmax (with its special EXE) if I need to open a NWN1 file. For NWN2 placeables, I stick with Tazpn's 3ds Max MDB Importer/Exporter.

[MokahTGS]

Tchos wrote...

It was because those cave roof placeables were doubled. They have up-facing textured polygons and down-facing textured polygons. I selected all of the up-facing ones, and deleted them. With no up-facing polygons, they do not block the camera or the map views.

My reluctance to package them up for redistribution as a package on their own is a permissions issue. Just like PJ didn't want to redistribute the Dark Waters resources without permission, I don't have permission to do that for the cave roofs.

When I use Gmax, I only use NWmax (with its special EXE) if I need to open a NWN1 file. For NWN2 placeables, I stick with Tazpn's 3ds Max MDB Importer/Exporter.

Altering files and uploading the new modified versions would be very in-line with any traditional NWN community stuff as long as the original work was credited to the originl author.  It's not like you are listing things on Craig's List...Distribution of NWN2 files is giving files to 10 people tops...

[rjshae]

The strongest notice I've read on the old vault is from Barry the Hatchet:

**************
Usage Notice:
1. Permission is granted for the BTH Watchtowers to be included with any NWN2 module or PW.
2. Please do not re-package or distribute the BTH Watchtower hak or its models or textures as part of any compilation or combo hak for public release. The noted exception is skullhak by dmguild.
**************

Interpreting 'compliation' conservatively, that seems pretty restrictive.

None of the others I've looked at have had such restrictions, so I 've just been updating a few those and putting the original author's name in the release. Perhaps listing the original author and yourself is proper, if you've made significant improvements? Shrug.

Modifié par rjshae, 20 novembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[PJ156]

BTH and Tchos both have conditions on usage and rightly so if that is the way they want to control thier work.

Problem with BTH is that he/she is not around to give permission any more so when I put my stuff together I have to leave his/her work out. That said, the whole repackaging bit is a grey area. Many modders distribute a combined hak with thier module. I am not sure this is such an issue if, as you say, due credit is given.

Also most of the modder BTH included put the 2da into thier hak, precluding the use of other custom content unless you remove it and pack it up on another 2da.

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 20 novembre 2013 - 07:30 .

[Tchos]

Just a little background on where I'm coming from...before I was modding NWN2, I was a modder of Oblivion, Morrowind, and Fallout 3, and I've witnessed many feuds and conflicts erupting between resource creators and resource repurposers or users, usually stemming from differing expectations on what was allowed and expected, differing levels of respect, assumptions about the motivations of all content creators, etc. 

Often, in those games' communities, I've seen these hostilities resulting in the most prolific resource creators choosing not to give anything further to the community, feeling that their wishes were not being respected, and also often removing their work from availability.  In the Morrowind community, at least, this resulted in a database being designed to house all known permissions given by authors for the use of their work.  In general, for those games, the prevailing wisdom is that if something is not explicitly allowed, then it's best to assume that it's not allowed until told otherwise.

Given all that, I think I'm becoming persuaded that it would be all right to distribute these modified cave roofs, if they can be seen to be in the same category as retextured resources, which I know have been widely accepted as permissable here.

P.S.: As for distributing resources in combined haks -- I personally don't consider that to be in the same category, because the resources are being distributed as part of their intended purpose (being used in a module), whereas distributing them by themselves (at least in an unaltered state) as a resource pack I see as the creator's prerogative.

P.P.S.: Here is the pack of modified, single-sided cave roofs.

Modifié par Tchos, 20 novembre 2013 - 07:37 .

[MokahTGS]

Thx...I needed these. Also, I've modified BCK floors and released them on the Vault specifically for the community to use them. Just give credit where due.

While doing what you do has been known to cause issues, I think most sane people realize that content made for a game community should be freely available for use.

There's too much "mine mine mine" in the modding communities for my taste. The Minecraft modding community is really bad in this respect...mainly because AdFly is widely used as a way to make money off of modding.

[ColorsFade]

Thanks Tchos. You da man. 

MokahTGS wrote...
There's too much "mine mine mine" in the modding communities for my taste.

True that. 

I haven't been around this community very long, but so far all I've encountered is people who want to help and get content out there. The sheer number of prefabs and blueprints available is really cool. I'm kind of saddened that I didn't jump on this when NWN2 came out, as I'd probably be done with my mod by now, but such is life. 

I appreciate everything that all of you do here. You answer questions, provide content, don't argue... This is a good place, and it's one of the reasons I'm really happy to build here. 

We're all making cool stuff. And that's fun. 

[andysks]

I don't know if I can say anything on this, since I don't make custom content myself. But from my point of view, when I need a script from Tchos for example, that I saw in his module, I ask him if I can use it. His comments always say his name, so if someone sees it in my mod, he'll know. Also, when Colors helped me modify my scripts, I wrote his name together with mine on the comments.

Now, if I was to ever modify something, I would only not touch, or search permission for the stuff that state it. Like BTH or Kaedrin. Still some overdo it, but it's their right I guess.
The only thing is, that at this moment there 10 people building... if even. And most of the people who made all these custom awesome stuff we use, are pretty much gone and don't even care about what's going on here.
Some exception is Adam Miller, who allowed PJ to use his placeables recently. I guess there are more who might come around now and then and see how their work is doing.

[Tchos]

I actually think 10 people is an underestimation. Of the ones who are regulars on this forum and who talk about what they're doing, it's probably accurate, but I see evidence here and there of people working on NWN2 projects who either never post here, or they pop up out of nowhere saying that they've been working on something for years, and now they're ready to talk about it. Surely there are others who are working behind the scenes and haven't spoken up.

[andysks]

Well that is actually true. I also worked on my project for like a year before I join the forums.

[Dann-J]

Whenever I upload custom content to the internet for free, I fully expect people will do whatever they want with it. No amount of whining on my part can force them to do otherwise, so why bother even trying? Butting your own head against a brick wall only hurts one person.

If someone modifies and repackages my work, then I certainly appreciated being credited for it. But it's no loss to me if I'm not. Producing custom content doesn't cost me anything except a bit of spare time, which wasn't wasted if I enjoyed doing it. In fact, I positively encourage anyone to build on my own work to create something of their own. That's why I make it publically available in the first place. Just don't expect me to provide any support for the modified content!

[Tchos]

Very easygoing, Dann. I hope you make sure to state that permission explicitly in your documentation so that the cautious don't have to worry in your case.