177 réponses à ce sujet

[Yojimboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Asexual reproduction is reproduction which does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction, or fertilization. Only one parent is involved in asexual reproduction. please look up the big words before confusing them... so whilst they may look female, and be capable of some kind of conventional copulation they are NOT female in biological terms.

Or a partner.
Whatever whacky alien process the Asari use, they REQUIRE A PARTNER TO DO IT.
The fact remains they are biologically female except for the whacky alien process whether you like it or not.

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

[Haasth]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Who has ever stated that the Codex couldn't contain flaws. It seems reasonable to me, that whatever character in the game wrote the Asari Codex Entry just isn't real up to date with Asari culture and is mistaken in that assuming they are all female.

Your assumption that evertying written in the Codex can't be questioned is a pretty big one.

Like the Rachni are extinct part. 

[The Angry One]

Yojimboo wrote...

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

Um, yes they do. They concieve through mating + the whacky alien process. They don't reproduce on their own and never have.

[The Angry One]

Haasth wrote...

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Who has ever stated that the Codex couldn't contain flaws. It seems reasonable to me, that whatever character in the game wrote the Asari Codex Entry just isn't real up to date with Asari culture and is mistaken in that assuming they are all female.

Your assumption that evertying written in the Codex can't be questioned is a pretty big one.

Like the Rachni are extinct part. 

Sorry, how is this wrong? The Rachni, as a species, are extinct. The fact that a solitary egg was found and kept alive through artificial means is irrelevant. As of the game, they are extinct. If you kill the queen, they remain extinct. If you don't and provided a proper habitat for the queen they will eventually become not extinct.

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:03 .

[Aradace]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Maybe i missed the line but i am pretty damn sure Asari are a alien race, so who are we to judge the people who came up with the story for said alien race?

If the writer say that they are genderless then so be, it's their creation and their right.

ASARI are a fictional race, don't label them with human standards.

It's like saying the orcs in Warhammer 40k don't come out of fungi sprouts because that simply can't work!

Except they're an alien race who look female, sound female, are biologically female and use feminine names and descriptions.
But somehow they aren't actually female! Right.

If you want to argue simantics, the Asari arent "technically" female.  Sure they look, act, smell, taste, whatever, like a female...But any organism that can reproduce with another of it's "gender" doesnt really fit within the "normal" criteria now does it?  Looking at it from a "sci-fi" PoV there isnt any FoF (Female on Female) relationships in the ME universe. 

However, as the OP mentioned this is a massive twist to the lore in order to get to this "vantage point" on this issue and I can see "why" they do it as well *Warning, religious discussion imminent*  They do it because there are and WILL be "devout" christians/catholics etc. that will play the game and overall people who are offended by the "homosexual" acts.  Which, innevitably will raise arms to which BioWare has the lore on hand already to get through the "loophole" in their arguements thus making them irrelevant. 

Im not going to state my opinion on the subject either way seeing as how I myself am a Wiccan.  But I will say this:  That for the most part it really doesnt matter to me because A.) Im a guy and never play a female character.  But this is only because I like playing a character I can "relate" to and since I am not a woman, I cannot relate to being one and therefore cant play one .  And B.)  I never liked Liara to begin with in the first game so BioWare is going to have to do some major convincing for me to change my opinion of any Asari females in this new installment.  *scratches his stubble for a second to think of anything else he may have missed.*...Nope, I think that's about it.  lol

[Yootje]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

Um, yes they do. They concieve through mating + the whacky alien process. They don't reproduce on their own and never have.

Actually, they don't have to copulate I think. Liara says that phsyical contact may or may not be involved in a joining to produce offspring. They do need to join and do the whole alien thing with syncing nerve systems, but I understood that dialogue to mean that they don't have to have sex as we understand it to reproduce.

EDIT: Also, I seem to remember a dev saying somewhere that Liara was intended to be the F/F romance in ME1. Don't know what Casey Hudson is going on about. Although I don't think you can really say that his saying it's hermaphrodite/female is to make it seem to fit with heteronormativity. How is hermaphrodite alien/female heteronormative?

Modifié par Yootje, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:06 .

[The Angry One]

Yootje wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

Um, yes they do. They concieve through mating + the whacky alien process. They don't reproduce on their own and never have.

Actually, they don't have to copulate I think. Liara says that phsyical contact may or may not be involved in a joining to produce offspring. They do need to join and do the whole alien thing with syncing nerve systems, but I understood that dialogue to mean that they don't have to have sex as we understand it to reproduce.

You are correct, however this process is still thought of as "mating", so my point stands.
That's the crucial point here. They require a partner, and they require a process that however alien to us is thought of as sex. Therefore they do not reproduce asexually.
This is entirely aside from the fact that they are fully capable of having sex as the equivalent of human females. This, from an evolutionary  realism standpoint is garbage. But that's how it is in the game, to deny it is foolhardy.

[lokiarchetype]

Human: Hi, my species has biological sex A and B, I'm B, which are you?



Asari: wat?



Human: You know, to reproduce you need two different types of your species, those types are the biological sexes... I'm type B, what are you?



Asari: No such difference exists in my species. Since we lack that dimension entirely, I suppose I am neither type.



Human: Well you most resemble type A, so you must be type A



Asari: Umm, okay. If it pleases you, you may say I'm type A... as the term has no meaning within my species, so its neither insulting or complimentary. In my species, we type each other based on gjjahhs, you most resemble Type A, or as we call it, yuuriiiso.



Human: ...wat?



Asari: Exactly.



Human: ... ...so... do you want to do it?... with me?

[Aradace]

Yootje wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

Um, yes they do. They concieve through mating + the whacky alien process. They don't reproduce on their own and never have.

Actually, they don't have to copulate I think. Liara says that phsyical contact may or may not be involved in a joining to produce offspring. They do need to join and do the whole alien thing with syncing nerve systems, but I understood that dialogue to mean that they don't have to have sex as we understand it to reproduce.

EDIT: Also, I seem to remember a dev saying somewhere that Liara was intended to be the F/F romance in ME1. Don't know what Casey Hudson is going on about. Although I don't think you can really say that his saying it's hermaphrodite/female is to make it seem to fit with heteronormativity. How is hermaphrodite alien/female heteronormative?

Exactly, basically the actual "act" of mating is just a bonus lol...The Asari only have to "meld" on a mental level in order to produce an offspring.

[Yojimboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

They still convice childrens on their own, the partner is only required for stimuli. Fact remains they don't need to corpolate with anyone.

Look up the term female and tell me what defines it.

Um, yes they do. They concieve through mating + the whacky alien process. They don't reproduce on their own and never have.

Did you even bother to read what i wrote? They produce everything in their own bodies. They don't even need to have sex, the partner is only a stimuli for the chemical reaction.

[The Angry One]

Yojimboo wrote...

Did you even bother to read what i wrote? They produce everything in their own bodies. They don't even need to have sex, the partner is only a stimuli for the chemical reaction.

And you don't bother to read a thing I wrote. The fact remains they require a partner for this reaction to happen. No partner, no procreation. The end.

[Yojimboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Did you even bother to read what i wrote? They produce everything in their own bodies. They don't even need to have sex, the partner is only a stimuli for the chemical reaction.

And you don't bother to read a thing I wrote. The fact remains they require a partner for this reaction to happen. No partner, no procreation. The end.

Btw the Hutts are Hermaphrodites, just so you know. I know he speaks male and looks male, likes woman, so he must be male /flex.

[Arrtis]

Codex is sued to explain the game to the person on which the person and people in the game believe to help with the story.

Asari need partners and they do not work as regular humans.Considering what species can mate with any other species and have the child not turn into some abomination or mix that probably would be messed up in someway.Its just what Asari are made to do.

Asari for how shepard and i think most aliens probably think of them as females in the game.If for some reason in ME 2 ITs understood they are not female then fine something happened where they are not considered as such.So till ME 2 comes out they are Female as understood by most within the game universe.

[Yootje]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Did you even bother to read what i wrote? They produce everything in their own bodies. They don't even need to have sex, the partner is only a stimuli for the chemical reaction.

And you don't bother to read a thing I wrote. The fact remains they require a partner for this reaction to happen. No partner, no procreation. The end.

I agree, that's not true asexual reproduction. Though this discussion has got me wondering if there are or ever were drugs that enable Asari to have children without a partner... something which fools their body into thinking they joined with someone. Hm.

[Nozybidaj]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Don't worry about it....ME2 only has proper heterosexual romances...as it should be. This is the single greatest improvement from ME1 to ME2. Maybe BioWare is finally learning how to make proper relationships in games now.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:14 .

[The Angry One]

Yojimboo wrote...

Btw the Hutts are Hermaphrodites, just so you know. I know he speaks male and looks male, likes woman, so he must be male /flex.

How does a Hutt look male? It's a giant slug.
Moreover, do you even know what a hermaphrodite is? At no point has an Asari ever, EVER made reference to having male as well as female parts.

[The Angry One]

Yootje wrote...

I agree, that's not true asexual reproduction. Though this discussion has got me wondering if there are or ever were drugs that enable Asari to have children without a partner... something which fools their body into thinking they joined with someone. Hm.

Unlikely because whatever process they use genuinely takes personality traits or whatever from the partner.

[Yojimboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Did you even bother to read what i wrote? They produce everything in their own bodies. They don't even need to have sex, the partner is only a stimuli for the chemical reaction.

And you don't bother to read a thing I wrote. The fact remains they require a partner for this reaction to happen. No partner, no procreation. The end.

I mean Liara herself tells you that the term female is wrong but i guess whatever suits you is ok.

Narrow mindness is a human quality after all.

[FERGJ]

ENOUGH!!!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!



THERE IS NO FEM/FEM ROMANCE IN MASS EFFECT ....hum;..well ;..ahem;...between human

[ERJAK1]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Don't worry about it....ME2 only has proper heterosexual romances...as it should be. This is the single greatest improvement from ME1 to ME2. Maybe BioWare is finally learning how to make proper relationships in games now.

You're lucky I'm not renegade Shep, or I'd have already chosen for you where I would relinquish that 1 bullet. (Here's a clue, you air sucking hole.)

[Yojimboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Btw the Hutts are Hermaphrodites, just so you know. I know he speaks male and looks male, likes woman, so he must be male /flex.

How does a Hutt look male? It's a giant slug.
Moreover, do you even know what a hermaphrodite is? At no point has an Asari ever, EVER made reference to having male as well as female parts.

Cancel hermaphrodite and replace it with asexually, that term was wrong placed here. Btw i don't really know how they look down there ;P, i only saw the buttocks. Who knows, maybe they can bring something out ^^.

Modifié par Yojimboo, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:22 .

[Arrtis]

well you know shepard can work with it.

[Subject One]

Anyone knows if Thane's race is also monogendered? Maybe Bioware doesn't thing that reptiles count as a gay romance

[The Angry One]

Yojimboo wrote...

I mean Liara herself tells you that the term female is wrong but i guess whatever suits you is ok.

Narrow mindness is a human quality after all.

A general and weak excuse used by Asari, in the tone of voice she uses you can tell even she doesn't believe it.
Sure, "technically" they're not females.. but technicalaties are like bones. For the dogs.

[RavenholmeCP42]

Yojimboo wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

...a kitten dies.

I know, because I punched it.

Think of the kittens, please.

For the love of Dog, Bioware, stop ****footing with this "monogendered" crap.  No pun intended.

Sorry, I read Casey Hudson's ridiculous cowardly comment that "There were no female / female romances in ME1" and it just pissed me off.  Yes, technically that is correct thanks to the lore bending over backwards to accomodate your heteronormality.

But you know why no one would ever refer to Liana as "him" or "his" or even "it"?  It's because there is a blatantly obvious difference between gender and sex from every cultural, anthropological, and ethnographic perspective in the world.  Liara is a woman.  End of story.  You know it, I know it, we all know it.  You guys put two women in the same room and they had sex.

Deal with it.

Asaris are hermaphrodites there is no female or male. The reason they have a female anatomie is because they bear children mammalian style.

Thank god, someone who understands biology. As a biology student, this thread is making me /facepalm

Technically, what Casey said is correct, there are no female/female romances in ME1. Asari are monogendered, but have female primary and secondary sexuary characteristics because they bear children in true mammalian fashion, and only avoid true hermaphrodism (Male some of the time, female the rest of the time, like Clown Fish/Carp) because they have an alternate form of mating based entirely on biotics (In which the mother contributes both sets of DNA, but through the meld alters the second to reflect some characteristics of the other parent, resulting in a viable genetic population.) In the codex, they're referred to as females because that's how humans will refer to them, being as, hey - if it walks like a duckling, talks like a duckling, and it looks like a duckling, it's a duckling. Unless of course it's a cygnet. We simply have no term (yet) that fits a monogendered species like the Asari, because as far as we know, their reproductive strategies are untenable in the actual universe, and it's very hard for game designers to coin a new term, especially when your average humans would still just call them women and have done with it.

Hell, Liara even mentions that referring to her as a female is technically incorrect.

Modifié par RavenholmeCP42, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:33 .