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[Seival]

Arcian wrote...

Seival wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

How cute, you think there is more then just a collection of biorhythm, genetic, and memory data left from the liquidation process.

It's cute that you think it's cute

And if you'll put aside all attempts to explain this in raw numbers (just for a second a least), wouldn't you find the concept beautiful? 

Many view it as ugly because it is not scientifically sound. That's the problem.

Seival wrote...

The awaking. Some things in the stories doesn't have to be explained. Trying to explain this, you just see this in a wrong perspective.

Ignoring the science in a science fiction story is extremely counterproductive. Not even fantasy stories can be told without some kind of internal logic to prevent plot holes from turning the story into swiss cheese. You're asking us to ignore the internal logic of a story so we can enjoy its concepts? While that may float your boat, it sinks the rest of us to the bottom of the ocean.

Why? Contradiction and logic can co-exist. Simple example: "We are the Harbinger". This phrase is about one single creature, and yet about many of individuals trapped within. I believe that thinking about the ideas behind the events before thinking about how logical were the events themselves is the only correct way of experiencing a story. Just because after understanding the ideas you start to see logic in them and in events infront of them. This is what a good story is - a game for your intuition and imagination, even if the story is not a book.

Modifié par Seival, 20 novembre 2013 - 09:56 .

[Xamufam]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

@Troxa

One way the ending ruined the rest of the series for me is the conversation with Sovereign. Every time I get to that point on Virmire I keep hearing, "I'm a Synthetic and I will end your species, so you don't create Synthetics that will eventually destroy your species. I'm not explaining this to you because it is beyond your comprehension."

I saw the reapers more as Hitler's Master race, because they are so similar to what Hitler preached,their quotes, how they operate their threats, how they force their will on you (indoctrination)
awtr.wikidot.com/long:this-is-not-a-pipe

Modifié par Troxa, 20 novembre 2013 - 10:56 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
You should chose the one you like the most, and be happy with your choice. That's all.

Only way to win is not to play. :happy:

[Killdren88]

Disagreements on Synthesis aside Sev, how do you picture a ME sequel in a Synthesis ending? What would the conflict be?

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...
Most likely they were aware of what is the shell they trapped in doing. They felt nothing but regret and sorrow for the countless years of sleeping.

And you know this how....?

...noone awakes from such nightmares as a haughty, arrogant, selfish, or insane person. Such awaking is like a new birth. That is one of the reasons why Synthesis ending is so beautiful and full of hope for the best future without destroying the victims of the past.

Oh lord....you probably think being turned into a Necromorph is "beautiful".

Modifié par General TSAR, 20 novembre 2013 - 11:22 .

[Seival]

General TSAR wrote...

Seival wrote...
Most likely they were aware of what is the shell they trapped in doing. They felt nothing but regret and sorrow for the countless years of sleeping.

And you know this how....?

...noone awakes from such nightmares as a haughty, arrogant, selfish, or insane person. Such awaking is like a new birth. That is one of the reasons why Synthesis ending is so beautiful and full of hope for the best future without destroying the victims of the past.

Oh lord....you probably think being turned into a Necromorph is "beautiful".

How do I know this? Imagination. I find it very interesting to imagine something based on interesting ideas.
Is the product of my imagination in contradiction with what we see in Synthesis epilogue? No, it isn't.

If you can't see the difference between Synthesized Reapers and Necromorphs, then you're a kind of person that always sees something/someone uncommon or alien as an abomination, judging them only by their appearance.

[SwobyJ]

Imagination rocks.

For my MainShep, his imagination stops at the Reapers. Other 1-2 of my Sheps will go Synthesis, but not MainShep. Sorry!

[Zan51]

Seival wrote...
Why? Each Reaper is made of the millions of scared and hopeless victims. They would never awake as haughty or arrogant. Besides, have you ever seen the entire civilization that consists mostly of haughty or arrogant people? Such people are always in minority. And we are not talking about actual living beings locked inside a starship together. They are more like ghosts... the souls trapped inside the mechanical shell, sleeping in an endless nightmare called The Catalyst, and eventually awakened after the Synthesis was applied. That's why I'm talking about the true democracy within one persistent shell - they can't leave, and they have to coexist with each other forever after everything they've been through.

Sorry, don't believe in ghosts. Reapers are an abomination that need to be wipd out, put down like rabid animals to stop them infecting anyone else.

[Arcian]

Seival wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Seival wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

How cute, you think there is more then just a collection of biorhythm, genetic, and memory data left from the liquidation process.

It's cute that you think it's cute

And if you'll put aside all attempts to explain this in raw numbers (just for a second a least), wouldn't you find the concept beautiful? 

Many view it as ugly because it is not scientifically sound. That's the problem.

Seival wrote...

The awaking. Some things in the stories doesn't have to be explained. Trying to explain this, you just see this in a wrong perspective.

Ignoring the science in a science fiction story is extremely counterproductive. Not even fantasy stories can be told without some kind of internal logic to prevent plot holes from turning the story into swiss cheese. You're asking us to ignore the internal logic of a story so we can enjoy its concepts? While that may float your boat, it sinks the rest of us to the bottom of the ocean.

Why? Contradiction and logic can co-exist. Simple example: "We are the Harbinger". This phrase is about one single creature, and yet about many of individuals trapped within. I believe that thinking about the ideas behind the events before thinking about how logical were the events themselves is the only correct way of experiencing a story. Just because after understanding the ideas you start to see logic in them and in events infront of them. This is what a good story is - a game for your intuition and imagination, even if the story is not a book.

I think we have wildly differing definitions of "logic" (with mine adhering to the definition present in most approved dictionaries). I can't immerse myself in a story unless it holds up to its own internal logic, regardless of whether it is a science fiction or fantasy story. All stories need rules, and those rules cannot be selectively broken whenever it's convenient for the writer. Unfortunately for ME3, there is very little internal logic, especially where the endings are concerned, and by the time the Catalyst appears, BioWare starts breaking every rule in the book.

[Steelcan]

I missed you too Seival

[General TSAR]

Seival wrote...
How do I know this? Imagination.

So everything you are implying about the reapers is nonsense, thanks for confirming our suspicions.

How about you post your head-canon somewhere appropriate?

If you can't see the difference between Synthesized Reapers and Necromorphs, then you're a kind of person that always sees something/someone uncommon or alien as an abomination, judging them only by their appearance.

Nice generalization there bud.

Also I don't judge from appearance brainiac, I judge from conduct and both entities display nothing else but genocidal behaviour.

Modifié par General TSAR, 22 novembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[SwobyJ]

I don't think I have any love for Seival, but sometimes I want the Reapers to be repentant, changed beings in the next game (with the ending of ME3 not being real I guess; and we still get to choose to accept or reject them with a greater context given), just to spite most of the board, maybe even including myself (being pro-Destroy)

***SPOILERS FOR AMERICAN HORROR STORY***

Kinda like that nasty murderous racist in American Horror Story: "It was another time! You can put me on the right path now!" Do we send her to the wolves, kill her ourselves, use her for our own gain, or truly help her to be repentant and helpful?

Modifié par SwobyJ, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:28 .

[Cobalt2113]

Killdren88 wrote...

Disagreements on Synthesis aside Sev, how do you picture a ME sequel in a Synthesis ending? What would the conflict be?

Unless you believe that everyone gets brainwashed the conflicts would be similar to those found in any cyberpunk story...

Plus there's the husks, i can see them filling the same role as the ghouls from fallout.

Plus there's all the people who didn't want to be synthesized, lots of potential for a rebel group there.

Plus what'll happen when non-synthesized people, either from systems that didn't have relays or from outside the galaxy, interact with the synthesized community.

In fact I think there's more room for conflict in the synthesis ending than any other

[Ninja Stan]

Not a productive discussion topic.

End of line.