93 réponses à ce sujet

[ignoreality]

Wulfram wrote...

None of Bioware's plots really make any sense with a total halfwit as the protagonist. They need to at least be the sort of person people would follow.

This. It makes me wonder when people declare a desire to make dimwitted or psychotically murderous Inquisitors. The character you "take over" has to have had some accomplishments to be named Inquisitor, and can't be glaringly mentally deficient for the same reason. 

(Well, there is an option that the Inquisitor goes bat**** insane *after* being appointed such, but I don't think a short scene of being stripped of the position or beheaded/thrown into the deepest dungeon is worth development resources.)

[Laughing_Man]

Hmm... this is a rare thing around here.
A thread in which almost everyone agrees about the topic.

Let us hope that DA:I will indeed let us to (more-or-less) define our character ourselves.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Freedom is best.  Although a dialog system like in Dragon Age: Origins would be ideal, I feel that Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age II did a better job with the dialog wheel than Mass Effect 1 & 3 did.

[David Gaider]

Someone posted my earlier response to this question, but evidently it bears repeating:

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

So, the tl;dr version: if you had concerns about ME3's use of the PC voice, that's fine. But this isn't ME, and what we're doing will align more with DA2.

Modifié par David Gaider, 22 novembre 2013 - 07:48 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

David Gaider wrote...

Someone posted my earlier response to this question, but evidently it bears repeating:

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

So, the tl;dr version: if you had concerns about ME3's use of the PC voice, that's fine. But this isn't ME, and what we're doing will align more with DA2.

+1

[MrMrPendragon]

David Gaider wrote...

Someone posted my earlier response to this question, but evidently it bears repeating:

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

So, the tl;dr version: if you had concerns about ME3's use of the PC voice, that's fine. But this isn't ME, and what we're doing will align more with DA2.

I guess that'd be fine. You guys can probably close this now.

[TheInquisitor]

David Gaider wrote...

Someone posted my earlier response to this question, but evidently it bears repeating:

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

So, the tl;dr version: if you had concerns about ME3's use of the PC voice, that's fine. But this isn't ME, and what we're doing will align more with DA2.

So glad to hear it will be more like the autio-dialogue in DA2. You guys handled it much better than ME3. I really hope the team doing the next Mass Effect takes a page from the DA dev teams book.

Modifié par TristanHawke, 22 novembre 2013 - 08:57 .

[Ieldra]

Well, it appears we'll have to define "auto-dialogue" for David Gaider's sake .

I'll give it a try:

"Autodialogue" is defined within the context of a game where the player has, by design, a level of control over a point-of-view character's spoken lines. Within this context, an utterance of the controlled character is autodialogue if it appears regardless of any choice made by the player, or if its semantic content cannot be plausibly derived from the label of the most recent dialogue choice made by the player. That means a player can't exert informed control, or any control at all, over the (non-)appearance of the statement.

Notes:
(1) By the first condition, the definition includes *all* statements which appear unconditionally. Not all of them should be considered bad. This also includes things like battle cries, which is intentional since they can be just as character-derailing as statements made in dialogue scenes.
(2) I have included the second condition because it happens that the branches of a conversation are different but still include statements which have nothing to do with what the player has chosen. That, too, should qualify as "autodialogue".
(3) As a welcome side effect of the second condition, this definition includes, somewhat unintuively, spoken lines appearing unexpectedly as the result of misleading paraphrases, since that effectively robs the player of control in just the same way as lines do which appear unconditionally, assuming no foreknowledge.
(4) Also by the second condition, excluded from the definition are statements made as part of a longer exchange, which technically also appear "automatically", if they can be seen as part of a multi-sentence statement loosely described by the label of the choice.  

(Don't take this too seriously. I'm just odd in that I find enjoyment in creating stuff like this. Nonetheless, I think this is correct.)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 novembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Someone posted my earlier response to this question, but evidently it bears repeating:

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

So, the tl;dr version: if you had concerns about ME3's use of the PC voice, that's fine. But this isn't ME, and what we're doing will align more with DA2.

Unprompted responses are fine.  ANd I never had a problem with them in DA2.  What people mean by autodialogue is having a conversation lasting several minutes and only  one or two opportunities for the player to respond.  And even then in only a limited, binary form of response.  As an example, take the very beginning of ME3, where for an entire ten minute intro, the player gets, what, 2-3 opportunities to input what Shepard can say?  With a single paragon and renegade option each.

If DAI is to be modeled on previous Dragon Age games, then I can be reasonably confident this will not be an issue, though.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

Yet.

I can wait.

[PinkysPain]

Wulfram wrote...

None of Bioware's plots really make any sense with a total halfwit as the protagonist.

Here this is how you do it :


Now I'm not advocating doing it, because it's a whole lot of dialogue for a path only few people will take ... but it's certainly doable to have someone stumble through the story and triumph by dumb luck and sheer force, with bystanders misinterpreting his actions as those of a hero and sending him on his quests, his companions would stay by his side for entertainment, a sense of duty to his cause (even if he doesn't really know what it is), because they think it's just an act etc etc.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 22 novembre 2013 - 10:54 .

[bEVEsthda]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The characters are always assigned traits from the writers. There never has been a 'blank slate' and there never will be.

NWN

KotOR (I would argue, though my position is unpopular)

Any truly party-based game (like the Wizardry games).

Fallout 3

Skyrim

Oh, c'mon. There are more.
Many more.

[bEVEsthda]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

Yet.

I can wait.

,..hmm,..

[David7204]

You'll be waiting till the Singularity. And that assumes AIs are going to be happy about devoting themselves to directing video games. Who knows about that.

Modifié par David7204, 22 novembre 2013 - 11:28 .

[Rawgrim]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The characters are always assigned traits from the writers. There never has been a 'blank slate' and there never will be.

NWN

KotOR (I would argue, though my position is unpopular)

Any truly party-based game (like the Wizardry games).

Fallout 3

Skyrim

Oh, c'mon. There are more.
Many more.

Baldur`s Gate 1-2
Ultima 1-7
Jade Empire
Fallout 1-2
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale 1-2


There you go.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Yes, and it will have dialogue-wheels with only one option.


Yayyy!!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rawgrim wrote...

Baldur`s Gate 1-2
Ultima 1-7
Jade Empire
Fallout 1-2
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale 1-2


There you go.

I wouldn't include BG2, or Ultima 5-7.  Sequels that re-use the PC are tricky.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David7204 wrote...

You'll be waiting till the Singularity. And that assumes AIs are going to be happy about devoting themselves to directing video games. Who knows about that.

We have had such games before.  There are such games being made now (Wasteland 2 is coming out pretty soon).

[Oasis_JS]

Sion1138 wrote...

I have no problem with some lines being said without my input. What matters is the content of those lines.

They ought not to carry weight, neither with regard to the plot or to the player character. In ME3, there were too many character defining lines that were automated. 

Like "I'm a soldier Anderson, I'm no politician."

That right there says something about who the character is, what his disposition is. I would never have chosen to say that.

On other occasions you were given two basically equivalent choices to say stupid things, like "We fight or we die." and "We have to stand together.".

Same thing there, just packaged differently. Again, I would never have said that myself.

On yet other occasions it was the 'paraphrasing' that got me. You talk to Garrus about the war and all and he's telling you how difficult it was to leave his people. You get an option displayed as "I understand." but it results in Shepard saying "There was a boy back on Earth..."

What the...? I didn't care about the freaking boy, everybody was dying. This is not paraphrasing, it's just arbitrary.

but that's it.. the whole line  about the boy.. it is the I understand choice..  . if you didnt like it i am sorry it didnt play out the way you thought it would.,  On my end  i enjoy it very much ^^.

Modifié par Oasis_JS, 23 novembre 2013 - 07:28 .